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Requiem for Methuselah

This interesting conversation has prompted me to watch the episode again. This was never one of my favorite episodes, until a few years ago, when I started realizing how good it is (within the limitations of the 3rd Season budget, etc.).

I learned something new watching it just now. I played Brahms as a piano student, and love his piano work. But, I always wondered about the "Brahms waltz" which Spock plays. I didn't remember any waltzes by Brahms. But, looking at Wikipedia, I see he did write a set of 16 waltzes. In a few hundred years, I guess there will be 17!
 
I'm with Timo that Kirk was manipulating events to get to the objective. Starship Captains get to that appointment by hook and by crook, when the circumstance calls for a dynamic approach, IMO.

That's all valid as head canon, but as an interpretation it's very close to being a retcon. Same with my version of events, in which Flint faked Rayna's death (with a pocket remote control or keyword voice commands) to dislodge Kirk from her spell, and Spock knew the score but elected to keep Kirk in the dark rather than risk a return to the combative situation.
 
Although I've always thought it exceedingly unlikely that Spock would not only be able to play handwritten music but also recognize it as coming from Brahms' own hand, the Brahms aspect gives rise to my favorite moment of the entire episode:

"I... am Brahms."

When it first aired (pretty sure I saw it then) I was a once and future piano student, and still am, although not playing Brahms. Hiring Ivan Ditmars to write the "Brahms waltz" was a terrific decision - either the waltz or the (uncredited) songs in "The Way to Eden" would have been the last original music written for the series. Both get massively edited in syndication cuts, sadly.
 
But, looking at Wikipedia, I see he did write a set of 16 waltzes. In a few hundred years, I guess there will be 17!

Or eighteen, considering that the waltz Spock plays is not the one for which we see the sheet music...

(It would also be a bit jarring to use the sheet music as an unheard segment of the waltz we do hear, but I guess Spock could have skipped right to the middle part and ignored those apparent first and second pages.)

There's a story behind this one, but I forget the specifics. Not your usual "prop people just plain don't care", though.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Although I've always thought it exceedingly unlikely that Spock would not only be able to play handwritten music but also recognize it as coming from Brahms' own hand, ...

Spock had already shown himself to be musically talented with the Vulcan classical lute/lyre/harp/whatever. I'm sure his mother would have made him learn an Earth instrument, too. And Spock is one to become an expert at anything he does. I like the idea that people in the future will be polymaths. I meet so few today who seek to develop multiple skills and multiple areas of knowledge to a high degree.

On a separate note, I have wondered how Flint went about changing identities when the time came, and avoid being recognized. How would he take a completely new identity, including all the legal rigamarole, especially in areas that were/are strict about proof of identity, national ID numbers, etc?

Kor
 
The thing is, he would have had thousands of years to learn the tricks before mankind started paying any attention to such things.

By the time centralized, computerized records became the thing, Flint could no doubt hack such records at will, or buy a thousand civil servants to do it for him - a simple step up from buying a doctor in order to fake a death or a priest to fake a birth, which was already more than what he would have needed just 200 years ago.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I always assumed being a 'superior' Vulcan, Spock picked up the piece straight away. I just took it as fact that a Vulcan could master the mathematics of playing a piece straight away. It never crossed my mind that Spock - or Vulcans - would have to learn in the same way we humans do.

As for recognising Brahm's style etc
- as he's said before, Spock 'prides' himself on his knowledge of Earth history.
 
The piano is a fairly central Earth instrument nowadays, and not for nothing: it's the simplest and most visual representation of how our civilization almost universally divides the octave (the "natural" interval you get by halving a given wavelength) into those thirteen little steps, and is easy as hell to get a tune out of. Spock could have learned to play the thing in a weekend, and to master classic western notation in another.

Beyond that, it doesn't take a superhuman. After something like five years of intense study, or a more typical decade-long curriculum, any one of us here could learn to play music of the type seen here without having to study or practice it beforehand. One might argue that Brahms wrote at the threshold between the deliberately simple Viennese classical tradition where you can do piano concertos prima vista without breaking a sweat, and the deliberately difficult late romantic tradition where the whole point is to write for virtuosos only; this sheet music we see is fairly straightforward, the music we actually hear possibly even more so.

To recognize the music as Brahms, Spock wouldn't need skills other than basic comprehension of human writing. After all, the sheet music says "Johannes Brahms" right on the first page! Whether Spock would then be correct in his surmise that this is genuine Brahms is basically irrelevant, because there's no way of knowing whether he would be right or wrong, and events outpace such considerations immediately anyway.

Spock's jumping to the conclusion was a no-brainer; his audacious claim, perhaps lacking in explicit evidence, is actually a good null hypothesis, given how he has already seen Flint surround himself with "genuine" art, while the recluse certainly seemed to possess the means to remove those quotation marks if he so wished.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Spock is an all around intellectual, very well read and not just in science. He knows human literature. He spent part of his career on Earth, and is part human, so no matter what he says, he would want to know Earth culture. Earth culture is widespread and probably lies at the heart of Federation culture. Why have a problem with his knowing Brahms' style of composing? And is it a problem that he plays the piano and can play from sheet music? That's what sheet music is for. I am sure Spock simply learned to play the instrument like anyone else, but faster than an average human probably. I don't see any mystery here.
 
7449.jpg

Above is the first page of an autograph of a Brahms piano piece.

The last few posts neglect a crucial line from the episode. It's not a question of Spock recognizing Brahms' style; the line is this:

"Captain, it is written in manuscript - an original manuscript in Brahms' own hand, which I recognize."

Therefore the difficulty Spock surmounts is twofold: (i) He not only can read, he can sit at the keyboard and sight-read, handwritten music, which - no matter who wrote it - is likely to have a multitude of idiosyncrasies (see above) not found in a typeset score; and (ii) he knows for a fact that Brahms wrote it himself, that it's no forgery.

(For many years now, real composers have been using programs such as Finale or Sibelius to produce printouts of sheet music as well as MIDI playback of the same; it's very convenient to tweak, edit, play back, and then print when a piece is satisfactory. Flint would have done the same and not even picked up his quill pen, if Jerome Bixby et al. had thought ahead. I myself have owned versions of Finale for Mac since 1991.)
 
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Thanks, gottacook. Is it a problem that Spock knew Brahms' penmanship? Spock is an all-around scholar. We are meant to be impressed. Why can't we be? Sometimes I wonder if some fans' objections are made because they can't do this or that, or people they know can't. There are some very knowledgeable people out there.
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Is the posted score written in some dated or personal way that is not standard, and makes it hard to sight-read?
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People are individuals, especially Flint. It's bizarre to me that people right now appear to be abandoning paper and pen, claiming they never write. Electronic alternatives can be very handy, but there's no reason to suppose that just because they exist, no one would ever just pick up paper and write on it. Some will even like to write with quill pens, those crazy nutballs. Artists, huh? Whatever medium seems to be conducive to creativity, you will use.
 
I was around composers my whole academic life [B.Mus. (composition) 1982, M.M. (performance) 1993]. You are correct that sometimes pen and ink is handy - for example, I might sit at the piano and sketch a few measures of an interesting figuration on paper, and I have a number of such scraps waiting for me to put into the computer, play back & notate legibly.

Yes, any composer who is hand-notating a score will very likely do so in a "personal way" (this is how Spock identifies the score as the work of Brahms, after all!). This would have been especially true during the era of inkwells and fountain pens. As for what the personal idiosyncrasies consist of, examples from many composers are online, like the one I found.

(An unrelated point: I can't find the image online, but Timo writes above that Brahms' name is on the score Spock plays. I can't imagine any circumstance under which I'd put my own name on something that has never left my piano. Flint is alone on the planet; why would he sign anything?)

I don't object to Spock being able to identify the score as the genuine handwriting of Brahms per se; Nimoy does very well with those lines, sells the idea. What I object to is the perceived story need for him to know that no one else could have written it. He is puzzled anyway ("definitely the work of Brahms... and yet, unknown!") and could have been equally puzzled if the score had merely looked like it was by Brahms and/or had been in what Spock identified as being in the distinctive style (a term not used in the episode) of Brahms.

So my objection is that Spock is given a gratuitous talent that doesn't serve the story. I would never have thought this through before, so thanks for the opportunity.
 
I don't object to Spock being able to identify the score as the genuine handwriting of Brahms per se; Nimoy does very well with those lines, sells the idea. What I object to is the perceived story need for him to know that no one else could have written it. He is puzzled anyway ("definitely the work of Brahms... and yet, unknown!") and could have been equally puzzled if the score had merely looked like it was by Brahms and/or had been in what Spock identified as being in the distinctive style (a term not used in the episode) of Brahms.

So my objection is that Spock is given a gratuitous talent that doesn't serve the story. I would never have thought this through before, so thanks for the opportunity.

It creates that moment where the intriguing mystery that IS this episode is revealed. You don't want vague guesses at a moment like that. You want to KNOW an impossible thing has happened.
 
Did Spock busy himself as a child with studying the handwriting or penmanship of classical Earth composers? What kind of weird hobby is that? Playing music, studying classical composers, sure. But memorizing their handwriting or penmanship (or sketches, I guess is correct?) so that he can just look at a piece of paper and say definitively it was in a particular composer's hand?
 
Did Spock busy himself as a child with studying the handwriting or penmanship of classical Earth composers? What kind of weird hobby is that? Playing music, studying classical composers, sure. But memorizing their handwriting or penmanship (or sketches, I guess is correct?) so that he can just look at a piece of paper and say definitively it was in a particular composer's hand?
He's following the footsteps of one of his human ancestors.
 
Did Spock busy himself as a child with studying the handwriting or penmanship of classical Earth composers?

It's just a character trope, the guy who knows everything about everything. Some of the James Bond movies used it, making Bond an expert on whatever trivial subject matter came to hand. Especially early Roger Moore.
 
It's just a character trope, the guy who knows everything about everything.

I think I was sensitized to this kind of character in December 1977 when Close Encounters of the Third Kind came out. The Bob Balaban character not only is Lacombe's interpreter, he is (when necessity arises) a cartographer too: "Before I got paid to speak French, I used to read maps. This first number is a longitude..." Naturally he is the only one who recognizes that the numbers are Earth coordinates. Oh, sure.
 
The last few posts neglect a crucial line from the episode. It's not a question of Spock recognizing Brahms' style; the line is this:

"Captain, it is written in manuscript - an original manuscript in Brahms' own hand, which I recognize."

Therefore the difficulty Spock surmounts is twofold: (i) He not only can read, he can sit at the keyboard and sight-read, handwritten music, which - no matter who wrote it - is likely to have a multitude of idiosyncrasies (see above) not found in a typeset score; and (ii) he knows for a fact that Brahms wrote it himself, that it's no forgery.

And here I want to argue that the cause and effect of Spock's realization must be seen in the proper order: Spock is first presented with the outright, literally spelled-out claim that this work is by Brahms (even if the ink is still wet), and he then dives into an attempt into disproving the claim, as is the proper order of things in any scientific analysis. When he fails to point out telltales of forgery (other than the wet ink), he lets his amazement reach the form of a statement to his superior officer.

What this means is that Spock needs a tad less competence in the person and art of Brahms, for the price of a bit of intellectual dishonesty (or shorthand if you may). He recognizes the way Johannes Brahms signed his works (his hand!), finds nothing wrong with the notation itself (such as blatant anachronisms or a totally dissimilar hand), and can easily scan his memory for the short list of Brahms' waltzes for confirmation that this is not a generally known work.

Yet this as such is not amazing yet, not in the slightest. The amazement (and our false impression that there would be more to Spock's analysis than there is) comes from the fact that there are counterindications (the wet ink, the circumstances), meaning Spock has uncovered something significant. Not a Brahms waltz which in itself is totally insignificant, but a potential forgery that has no place in the surroundings, a stain in the polished image of Flint, and perhaps a key to the mysteries of the person.

(An unrelated point: I can't find the image online, but Timo writes above that Brahms' name is on the score Spock plays. I can't imagine any circumstance under which I'd put my own name on something that has never left my piano. Flint is alone on the planet; why would he sign anything?)

I would argue exactly because he is Flint. And Brahms. And Leonardo.

How else could he keep his resume straight? ;)

(In other words, Flint isn't entertaining himself by writing music for himself. He's entertaining himself by being Brahms again, for a moment. Notation software wouldn't go with that, either.)

What I object to is the perceived story need for him to know that no one else could have written it. He is puzzled anyway ("definitely the work of Brahms... and yet, unknown!") and could have been equally puzzled if the score had merely looked like it was by Brahms and/or had been in what Spock identified as being in the distinctive style (a term not used in the episode) of Brahms.

Indeed. But Spock is confronted by a stronger impossibility here than a mere unknown piece of music. He's facing a forgery that shouldn't be a forgery but must be. This in an environment where his senses have been collecting subliminal cues of forgeries that shouldn't be forgeries.

Basically, Kirk here is doing the very same thing: he's being amazed by Rayna Kapec, or more exactly the relationship between her and her apparent mentor and warden. Again, that's a forgery that shouldn't be - Rayna is not real, and the relationship is not what it seems, even if everything about it appears genuine.

So my objection is that Spock is given a gratuitous talent that doesn't serve the story. I would never have thought this through before, so thanks for the opportunity.

There are depths to this that go well beyond what was written, yes, and it's a fun thing to ruminate on. I delight in the way the three heroes exercise their exceptional talents independently of each other, pursuiting separate paths, while only Spock and McCoy seem to share their findings. In fact, Kirk shares, too, and his path is the one leading to solution and salvation, but till the very last moment it appears to be anything but...

Timo Saloniemi
 
As shown in the Highlander series of films and TV episodes, an immortal could just move on to a new area in the old days to avoid people guessing his secret, but later on he had to legally leave his money and collections to a 'distant relative' who was living a few thousand miles away in order to keep his cash and possessions!

JB
 
...Who knows, perhaps Flint himself was largely responsible for the "modern" developments that made it possible for him to keep on going? Perhaps if not for Flint, there would be social security numbers in the Great Britain of 1930s already, and regular checks of Swiss bank accounts and Jersey holdings?

The more modern the times, the more people Flint could also be. Back in the 1500s, it would have been difficult to be people in Florence, Nanjing and Ciudad de Mexico simultaneously; in the 2000s, this would be fairly trivial. Instead of a plan B, Flint could now have backups all the way to Z.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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