Requiem for Methuselah & The Way of Eden

[evangelist6589]

Requiem for Methuselah
A very interesting episode. I see Flint as a mean and ruthless person (perhaps like Khaun in some ways). His Android was very beautiful and of all the women in the series Kirk may have felt for the most, with the exception of the 1st season episode The City on the Edge Forever. No this episode does not compare to that one, but its still fun to watch. My rating 4/5 stars

The Way of Eden
He he this one is a classic. The Hippy's act foolish but thats what makes this one funny to watch. I like how Kirk reacts to them, and how they call Spock Herbert (whatever that means). Its a shame the Romulans did not show up in this episode as the ship was in their space. My rating 3/5 stars.

 

[Bixby]

Herbert is probably a futuristic version of what they called in the 60s, ''squares'', or ''straight''...

 

[2takesfrakes]

Requiem for Methuselah is so absurd as to be surreal. I can't be certain, but I'm confident that it was generally understood, even at the time, that Da Vinci was gay. Having him be Immortal and all powerful is beyond mythical. Then to have Kirk fall in love with an obviously bewigged "woman" he only just met 10 minutes before AND want to fight Da Vinci for her (like she was a heavyweight boxing belt) was too hard to believe. Even watching this, it's like ... OK, there must be some metaphor here, or something, because this can't be a "real" part of the story. Mind you, all of this is taking place whilst Kirk and company are meant to be finding the cure for what's killing the Enterprise crew! Pitiful in prose, aweful in execution, this whole episode is a string of absurdities so unintentionally funny that it's one of my favorites, actually, for that reason. I almost feel bad for the actors and everyone involved, it's that bad ...

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Yeah, and James Daly looks nothing like John Rhys-Davies!

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Yeah, and James Daly looks nothing like John Rhys-Davies!

Star Trek was never very good when it came to two actors playing the same character. Zefram Cochrane's Glenn Corbett/James Cromwell comes to mind, too. It's like they didn't even try.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Yeah, and James Daly looks nothing like John Rhys-Davies!

They should've got Tim Daly to play DaVinci on Voyager. At least there's more resemblance there between father and son than someone unrelated to James Daly.

 

[RAMA]

Requiem for Methuselah
A very interesting episode. I see Flint as a mean and ruthless person (perhaps like Khan in some ways). His Android was very beautiful and of all the women in the series Kirk may have felt for the most, with the exception of the 1st season episode The City on the Edge Forever. No this episode does not compare to that one, but its still fun to watch. My rating 4/5 stars

No, he's not really ruthless till he gets angry, for the most part, he is cool, methodical and unemotional as a result of many lifetime's worth of experience which has made him somewhat indifferent until his android experiment reaches a climax.

Having Kirk literally drive another AI to death, this time because he's so desirable is simply too much to bear in this episode.

I like to point out Jerome Bixby's superior variation of this story: The Man from Earth movie from 2007.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0756683/

 

[Push The Button]

Requiem featured the last appearance of the 3-foot Enterprise model in the series.

It was kind of a mediocre story, but typical for the back nine of the third season.

 

[ToddPence]

They're two completely different genres, and there are no plot elements such as immortality or androids in the earlier example, but the climactic scene of "Requiem" is astonishingly similar to the climactic scene of the 1962 NAKED CITY episode "The Contract."

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

As far as Kirk falling for Rayna so quickly and completely, I figure that was Flint's doing. He was trying to awaken her humanity, as I recall, and there must've been some technological wizardry of his at work to weaken him. That, and the recent Elaan of Troyius experience had the Dohlman's tears still coursing through his system, it might have been a one-two punch that Kirk couldn't resist.

That's my best explanation.

 

[Melakon]

They're two completely different genres, and there are no plot elements such as immortality or androids in the earlier example, but the climactic scene of "Requiem" is astonishingly similar to the climactic scene of the 1962 NAKED CITY episode "The Contract."

Hmmm. And one of the regular characters for Naked City in that episode was named Flint. Coincidence? You be the judge!

 

[Commishsleer]

Requiem for Methuselah is so absurd as to be surreal. I can't be certain, but I'm confident that it was generally understood, even at the time, that Da Vinci was gay. Having him be Immortal and all powerful is beyond mythical. Then to have Kirk fall in love with an obviously bewigged "woman" he only just met 10 minutes before AND want to fight Da Vinci for her (like she was a heavyweight boxing belt) was too hard to believe. Even watching this, it's like ... OK, there must be some metaphor here, or something, because this can't be a "real" part of the story. Mind you, all of this is taking place whilst Kirk and company are meant to be finding the cure for what's killing the Enterprise crew! Pitiful in prose, aweful in execution, this whole episode is a string of absurdities so unintentionally funny that it's one of my favorites, actually, for that reason. I almost feel bad for the actors and everyone involved, it's that bad ...

I believe the metaphor for this episode (or science fiction trope if you'd rather) is that the search for eternal life usually ends up in tragedy and disappointment. You can see it in various science fiction stories and in 'Miri', 'Highlander', this episode, 'What Are Little Girls Made Of', 'Dorian Gray'.
People age around you and eventually die.

I have seen Kirk 'fall in love' in 10 minutes before but he never has risked his ship or crew for anyone.
I think this episode would have been more 'realistic' if it took place over a couple of weeks though.

I don't mind Flint being all those people. I don't know if it was all that well known that Da Vinci was gay and I can't see it being even considered for 60s TV.

I also don't think Flint needed the superpowers. That was overkill.

And Spock is so cool he can recognise random composer's handwriting.

Despite all the flaws I thought this was a good episode. I liked the main story. Thought Flint was a great adversary.
And I thought there were some great Spock McCoy moments.

 

[Timo]

I'd argue plot logic demanded those superpowers. If Flint were merely a wealthy recluse, Kirk would soon overpower him to get what he wants. But when it is very gradually revealed that Flint not only doesn't want to give Kirk what he wants, but also has the means to keep Kirk from getting it, we get this situation where the trio have to use their wits alone to work around the problem.

And it's pretty cool that it's Kirk who gets it right: McCoy's medicine and Spock's logic make zero headway, but Kirk instinctively knows that the girl is the key...

Kirk exploiting the girl of the week to complete his mission is actually quite a bit more plausible and palatable here than in some other episodes, and fully in character with the captain. Why, he knows she's just a bucket of bolts! Crushing her mechanical heart isn't even a price to pay, it's an additional benefit from where Kirk's looking.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[2takesfrakes]

I don't know about all that, Timo. For one thing, when the chick's revealed to be mechanical and Kirk finally accepts that Da Vinci's been using him to bring Rayna to life, emotionally ... the good captain's quite aggitated, even angry about it. Kirk was barking up the wrong tree and he's being a sore loser about it. He's never liked to lose, but come on - who the hell even does? This is most definitely out of character for him and can be attributed, perhaps, to his pushing 40. I honestly do believe that's what it's about. Kirk's getting older and taking his romances more seriously, now. He needs them - now, more than ever - to feel like he's still "got" it. And then - THEN - only to realize that his need turned him into a fool for someone else's advantage and amusement ... it pushed him over the edge.

Spock even had to internvene, working his Mind Meld Magic in a way that he'd never been shown doing, even when Kirk lost Edith Keeler. Certainly, allowing one's woman to get hit by a MACK truck would qualify for the "FORGET" ritual Spock intitiates, here. And what is Kirk's love for this android even based on? A little Ballroom Dancing (ugh!), a game of billiards, a little conversation, injected into the proceedings ... hardly enough to even fantasize about, much less taking anything to heart, like that. No. No, no, no ... Kirk's approaching the big Four-Oh, is what this is all about. Nothing else explains his vulnerability ... his desperate need for this "woman," even after her true nature is revealed ... nappy wig and all.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Kirk is about 35 here. He's not thinking about 40 yet. Maybe when he's 38, but he's still a ways off. Nah, he was just bein' stoopid.

 

[gottacook]

I'm fairly sure I held forth on this episode years ago, but: Of course Flint can create a Rayna who can make Kirk fall for her in almost no time; he's Flint!, and his creation (i.e., the latest version of it) is more than sufficiently impressive both mentally and physically, and/or can produce pheromones that would affect Kirk so strongly. Also, ahem, she's played by Louise Sorel.

One could also argue that the whole point of the episode (with all its implausibilities) is to provide the basis for one of the great Kirk-McCoy-Spock scenes: the final shipboard sequence ending with "Forget." I love McCoy's speech to Spock, and have since before I was old enough to have gone through any of "the glorious failures, and the glorious victories" myself; I was 12 when I saw it on NBC.

 

[Timo]

Oh, I'm pretty sure Kirk was faking the anger when goading Flint to fight, just as much as he was faking all his infatuations (except perhaps Miramanee, but that wasn't really Kirk). After all, that'd be the culmination of what he was systematically doing: forcing a superior being into stupid old fisticuffs and killing his lovebot, thereby toppling him from his pedestal and making him see the reason of giving Kirk his rhyetalyn.

As for McCoy's speech, I think he's completely off base there (and Spock knows it well). Kirk isn't weeping over the android, whom he doesn't even mention in his self-pitying rant. He's weeping over Flint, the man he was forced to ruin. It's just that McCoy is way too heteronormative to recognize a man's self-reflective agony over another man's fate.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[gottacook]

Sorry, what? Just because he doesn't mention Rayna in his few lines before falling asleep at his desk, he's really thinking primarily about Flint? He does mention Flint's loneliness and his own, neither of which would be so cast into the foreground if not for Rayna and her demise. He's feeling sorry for himself most of all - in particular, that his own loneliness led him to be taken in, caught off guard, risking his ship and crew as a result. He himself is the "flower dying in the desert," as Rayna says (repeating Flint's earlier description of loneliness). What he wants to forget is the Jim Kirk he'd become for those few hours on the planet. I don't think his feelings for Flint enter into it at all. Flint is no longer even human in some ways because of how his own history has changed him - outliving every woman he ever loved, for example.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Flint is no longer even human in some ways because of how his own history has changed him - outliving every woman he ever loved, for example.

I don't by any stretch claim to be particularly well read, and I've seen probably far fewer films than most, but I can't recall seeing this sobering aspect of immortality touched on all that much. Just thinking about it, as you say...outliving every woman he ever loved, every person he's known, period...outlasting every building he's ever been in. Even the geography he's known has changed, no doubt. This man has outlived civilizations and languages! That's pretty deep to chew on...

 

[Timo]

What he wants to forget is the Jim Kirk he'd become for those few hours on the planet.

I'd rather say "the Jim Kirk he'd become", period. And the adventure with Flint is the painful reminder of what a poor showing Kirk gave, because it's the same poor showing that Flint gave: cynical, manipulative old men sacrificing good things for their irrelevant goals, and hurting each other in the process as well.

I don't think his feelings for Flint enter into it at all.

The Captain's feelings are definitely for Jim Kirk. It's just that he'd very much like the mirror removed from in front of his face. And Rayna isn't the mirror.

Timo Saloniemi