Yes, but I don't believe CBS All Access exists outside the U.S.
Yeah, my heart sinks at the idea of the twenty somethingth season of Trek planet of the week adventures.
But I'll watch Strange New Worlds anyway, and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Report: Discovery moving to Netflix
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But I'll watch Strange New Worlds anyway, and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Disco S3 has been all over the place with a variety of planets and characters featured; it is far from a "quick linear story".
Yeah, I think that might have something to do with losing nearly eight million viewers over the first half of season one, and falling even further in season two. If anything, seasons three and four were reasonably steady in ratings, though I suppose they didn't have many more to lose.
Voyager steadily lost ratings too, and that was very much a story-of-the-week format, to the detriment of its potential.
Especially not at $7-10M a pop.
I have different pros and cons on SNW:
Pros
1. I like the Disco versions of Pike, Spock, and Number One.
2. Episodic Trek was played out... but it was played out in the Berman Era. Alex Kurtzman and the showrunners for SNW will be trying a different approach. If absolutely nothing else, I'm 100% sure about at least that.
3. Strange New Worlds will provide several opportunities for Strange New Vistas and Strange New Cinematography.
Cons
1. It feels like "been there, done that". It's basically TOS by another name. An updated style, but still the same format. I'm not usually a fan of "back to basics".
2. Too many people who I generally disagree with are looking forward to it. Which means I might not like it, since it's been made crystal clear my tastes and theirs are so different.
2A. A good number of them will probably hate the actual series anyway, so that might nullify Con #2. I have full confidence in the Fandom Menace (Doomcock, Midnight's Edge, etc.) to come up with some stupid excuse to hate the series. If they have to, they'll make something up. Then it'll catch fire and it'll spread to here. I'm just not looking forward to hearing whatever it is all the time. Because you just know they won't let up.
3. More prequel arguments!
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Probably hard to prove, but I would think, yes! In spite of the Temporal War and the Vulcun-Andoriam conflict, Enterprise felt small. The Xindi War made it look like it was tackling something big, but also consequential. And the serialization of the third season surely convinced executives that serialization could be used in the fourth.
Whatever people think of each season, I don't think that episodic the panacea. From my perspective, the Burn feels like the Temporal War: something whose centrality is not clear and that is not visited in any substantive way. I've enjoyed the season, and I like all the episodes, but if I were asked why the Federation needs to be put back together (let alone if), I would be stymied. I think the season would benefit from more serialization, wherein Discovery observes and reacts to the consequences of the Burn, not immediately putting it in a position to solve it. And indeed, much of the season is effectively episodic, only visiting the Burn for a few minutes every week. Why would it be better if it were less serialized? I'm not sure.
I think Vance is tolerating Burnham's obsession with figuring out what caused The Burn. The Burn to him is like what something that happened in 1900 is to us. He's never known the Federation at its Height. Just the stories. I don't think he sees much of a benefit in the Federation being put back together again, to be honest. The only advantage he might see is strength in numbers against the Emerald Chain. I think this is something that's going to be with Discovery for the rest of the series.
People are underwhelmed with the Emerald Chain but I'm actually glad the Federation has this type of enemy. It's not something that absolutely has to be defeated to save the galaxy. The Emerald Chain are just competition. I'm not someone who's in favor of the Federation having a monopoly on the Milky Way. To take the Emerald Chain out of the equation, I also like the Maquis and the Fenris Rangers, who show(ed) that maybe the Federation isn't the only answer.
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apart from a bottle episode, Discovery season 3 is visiting a different world every week. Even the ones visited previously are vastly different, now. It doesn't require standalone episodes.
Exactly right. Seasons 1 & 2 of Ent were both episodic and both poorly received by the fans.
Season 3, which was the most serialized Trek show ever, was the first season of Ent whose last episode received slightly higher ratings than the season’s first episode.
Season 4, which may have been most fans’ favorite season (not mine), had an overall arc of the founding of the Federation, but was presented in 3 and 4 episode mini arcs. Still, it wasn’t episodic
But my point is not that serialized is better, although it’s my favorite, but it is about the stories, the acting, production, etc.
BTW, I agree with those who have said that report of CBS selling their most precious and valuable streaming assets to Netflix is BS. CBS knows that if Trek shows are no longer in first run on CBSAA, people would leave the service in droves.
I sympathize with Burnham and I think part of that is, as you say, the Burn is like 1900. Those events seem so far away to us but I personally love studying history and watching the patterns. So, for me, it is relevant.
But, your point is well taken anyway.
Also, I like the Emerald Chain as well.
I can believe a click bait site posted this......can't believe it gets shared. Paramount + will be rolling out next year as the retooled CBSAA and there has never been as much as a hint that Trek would not be one of the pillars of that service.
I disagree, switching to serialization was the shows demise. ST fans are used to episodic, that's what they were expecting. No doubt there were fans of the show that enjoyed it, but good luck on bringing in a new audience during the 3rd season. They wouldn't have gained viewers with this change, but would have lost some.
Yes, to progress the story forward, not to be episodic. But now that you mention it, why is it they are doing that? Maybe because they realize their original formula does not work well.
My mileage varies.
Seasons one and two were pretty patchy at best. Season was promising, but I didn't like that particular arc.
Season four may have been a bit fanservicey, but I loved it.
Oh my Prophets, the episodic/serialisation debate again. Fans think they want a certain thing, but you can guarantee that when they get it’ll they’ll switch to wanting something else. It is our nature to be dissatisfied 
it’s a tough bind for the producers because strictly episodic TV is not what’s in right now. Executives want highly bingable fare with an ongoing narrative and big cliffhangers to keep people tuning in. That’s the way TV goes now.
As for DSC, I’d argue season three has actually been too episodic thus far. There’s obviously an ongoing storyline but I feel it’s not been developed enough so far, and the writers have put much more focus into episodic stories albeit with some continuing threads. I’m at the point I’m starting to want more and see the narrative move forward. I also feel the season has lacked a compelling antagonist.
But anyway. Like I said, fans are never happy because we are want a whole load of contradictory things and the things we think will make as happy often don’t. That’s the human predicament in general I suppose.
it’s a tough bind for the producers because strictly episodic TV is not what’s in right now. Executives want highly bingable fare with an ongoing narrative and big cliffhangers to keep people tuning in. That’s the way TV goes now.
As for DSC, I’d argue season three has actually been too episodic thus far. There’s obviously an ongoing storyline but I feel it’s not been developed enough so far, and the writers have put much more focus into episodic stories albeit with some continuing threads. I’m at the point I’m starting to want more and see the narrative move forward. I also feel the season has lacked a compelling antagonist.
But anyway. Like I said, fans are never happy because we are want a whole load of contradictory things and the things we think will make as happy often don’t. That’s the human predicament in general I suppose.
As I've said in the past, I think serialized TV can work. It's important to note however that serialized does not mean "big story arc." Soap operas have been serialized since the dawn of TV, but there really is no overarching plot tying things together. It's all just made up on the fly, but because it's relatively low-stakes character drama, this can happen.
In general if we're talking about peak TV, I think story arcs are only highly effective if the writers are either working off of established media (like a series of books) or have a concrete plan. Discovery's attempts at story arcs have led to underwhelming conclusions thus far (with Season 3 to be decided) because in both cases it feels like the writers were going by the seat of their pants, with only a hazy idea of the conclusion at the beginning of the story - meaning there was not significant foreshadowing, and too much time was spent at the conclusion telling the viewer what, in retrospect, the season was supposed to be about.
In general if we're talking about peak TV, I think story arcs are only highly effective if the writers are either working off of established media (like a series of books) or have a concrete plan. Discovery's attempts at story arcs have led to underwhelming conclusions thus far (with Season 3 to be decided) because in both cases it feels like the writers were going by the seat of their pants, with only a hazy idea of the conclusion at the beginning of the story - meaning there was not significant foreshadowing, and too much time was spent at the conclusion telling the viewer what, in retrospect, the season was supposed to be about.
This thread should be locked because it’s quite obviously false. Also, CBS All Access will be re-branded as Paramount+ soon (a fact the article completely forgets).
I love season 1 and 2 of Enterprise, 4 is quite good to because of the building of the federation, and i liked the 2-3 episode arcs, if gave a sense of compleation, but didn't take a while darn season to complete an arc, which is okay on some stories, but some stuff, like the burn, should have been solved in episode 6 this season, then given something else to go after.
Season 3 of Ent was the worst season. some good single episodes, but meh. You could watch season 3 without half the episodes and still make since.
I like both Serial and episodic, and glad we will be getting both.
As for the original post, as said, from some dubious source, so taken with an atom of salt..
Season 3 of Ent was the worst season. some good single episodes, but meh. You could watch season 3 without half the episodes and still make since.
I like both Serial and episodic, and glad we will be getting both.
As for the original post, as said, from some dubious source, so taken with an atom of salt..
I have different pros and cons on SNW:
Pros
1. I like the Disco versions of Pike, Spock, and Number One.
2. Episodic Trek was played out... but it was played out in the Berman Era. Alex Kurtzman and the showrunners for SNW will be trying a different approach. If absolutely nothing else, I'm 100% sure about at least that.
3. Strange New Worlds will provide several opportunities for Strange New Vistas and Strange New Cinematography.
Cons
1. It feels like "been there, done that". It's basically TOS by another name. An updated style, but still the same format. I'm not usually a fan of "back to basics".
2. Too many people who I generally disagree with are looking forward to it. Which means I might not like it, since it's been made crystal clear my tastes and theirs are so different.
2A. A good number of them will probably hate the actual series anyway, so that might nullify Con #2. I have full confidence in the Fandom Menace (Doomcock, Midnight's Edge, etc.) to come up with some stupid excuse to hate the series. If they have to, they'll make something up. Then it'll catch fire and it'll spread to here. I'm just not looking forward to hearing whatever it is all the time. Because you just know they won't let up.
3. More prequel arguments!
All of this. As usual, SNW will be loved and hated. People who want TNG clones or who value "the sanctity of Gene's Vision" or demand that they film a Pike series on the TOS sets out in Ticonderoga NY will all have built-in reasons for disappointment and outrage. Others like me who have simple tastes will probably be very happy because it (admittedly) doesn't take much to please me. I love the Trek universe, so that's like 6 built-in points on a 10 scale per episode.
Fans complain that The Burn is cumbersome/tiresome and want more episodic shows. Fans complain when an episode doesn't sufficiently advance The Burn arc toward an answer.
Got it.
The Emerald Chain is to DSC what the Klingons were to TOS. General irritants, foils, and moustache-twirling villains as the plot needs them. Nothing wrong with that, per se. Also, it's likely a response from all the fan bitching and whining about villains who are too epic.
Oh my Prophets, the episodic/serialisation debate again. Fans think they want a certain thing, but you can guarantee that when they get it’ll they’ll switch to wanting something else. It is our nature to be dissatisfied
100% correct. Can't please the fans...and shouldn't try. The Fans (as an entity) have no idea what they want, revel in complaining under the fantasy illusion of "WE CONTROL THE FRANCHISE, AND WE INFLUENCE ALL DIRECTION" and are going to be guided by their biases regardless of what material is produced.
Message to the producers and writers: Make your own show, the way you want it. Forget trying to please "The Fans" and let the chips fall where they may. You have a better chance of producing something people will like by following this formula.
I agree that, in an attempt to make everyone happy, they've leaned DSC into a more episodic format than the show's premise calls for. Like I said above....stop it. Just make the damn show and stop trying to guess what will make everyone love you. The answer is- NOTHING. So just go for it.
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Captain's Log- Supplemental:
One of the biggest "we don't given a flying fock what the fans want, we're making our own Star Trek" moments in the history of the franchise was a little film called Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
That turned out pretty ok.
The next closest thing was Star Trek: Discovery S1. And, while fandom has changed in the last 37 years (as have the public outlets for displaying outrage) and S1 was certainly divisive...it launched an entire new era of Trek. All things considered....not too shabby. I'll take the collateral damage of "not everyone loves us" in exchange for 4 new live-action shows and 2 animated shows that are all working.
What's the lesson here, producers/writers/CBS executives?
Make your own damn show, and tune out the noise.
One of the biggest "we don't given a flying fock what the fans want, we're making our own Star Trek" moments in the history of the franchise was a little film called Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
That turned out pretty ok.
The next closest thing was Star Trek: Discovery S1. And, while fandom has changed in the last 37 years (as have the public outlets for displaying outrage) and S1 was certainly divisive...it launched an entire new era of Trek. All things considered....not too shabby. I'll take the collateral damage of "not everyone loves us" in exchange for 4 new live-action shows and 2 animated shows that are all working.
What's the lesson here, producers/writers/CBS executives?
Make your own damn show, and tune out the noise.
I'm not sure I agree. TWOK was an explicit sequel to a TOS episode, unlike TMP. It certainly pissed the hell out of Roddenberry, but I'm not sure it was all that divisive within fandom.
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