Religious/Atheist parenting problem + UU church questions

[Mark de Vries]

Yeah, Axiom knows where I am coming from. As a child I was taught that the bible was literal truth and that morality was very rigidly defined (among other things). Atheists tend not to teach their beliefs like that (in my experience, anyway). If there was an atheist 'creed' (which there isn't) it would be "think for yourself and make your own decision". At any rate, I do like the idea of exposing her to religions, I just don't want her world view to be limited by one in particular.

I see, thanks for explaining that. I can certainly understand that, as well as you wanting your daughter to think for herself. To me, it's always sad to hear about experiences like yours, because that is not how Christianity should be communicated.

I did not mean to imply that there is an atheist creed (although there are people who pretend there is). I'm just suspicious, to call it that, of atheism, because in many ways it is a reaction to theism and not a philosophy built on its own merits. It's about denial of something. Your wanting your daughter to think for herself is rather separate from a belief system (or lack of belief).

Another thing to consider would be the conflicting philosophies your daughter would be learning if she goes to different churches and meetings every time. Sure, some will sound similar, but that's often only superficial. I don't see the benefit in mixed messages, to be honest. Consistency and structure are important for young children.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

Well if Unitarians are the one true faith, i'll eat my hat.

 

[CmdrAJD]

Well if Unitarians are the one true faith, i'll eat my hat.

You'd be lucky to find two Unitarians who agree with each other as to what the truth is...if they'd even take a position on the subject. As it was explained to me, UU is all about personal truth.

 

[gturner]

One link.

www.scientology-atlanta.org/

Have a blast.

 

[Amaris]

One link.

www.scientology-atlanta.org/

Have a blast.

Their website has terrible JPG compression.

 

[gturner]

JPG compression masks the image's true thetan nature. Multiple passes through the JPG filter only result in the accumulation of negative engrams which then have to be audited. The compression algorithms were one of the primary mind-control tools used by Lord Xenu's army of psychologists to enslave the human population.

 

[Birdog]

while I have lots of respect for most Christians, the Christian faith leaves a residue with you even when you leave it, because the teachings play on the worst fears of mankind, and make the solution look so incredibly simple on the surface, that you don't forget them even if you don't put any stock in them.

Try growing up Mormon. <shudder> I don't think I will ever be completely free of that mindset no matter how hard I try to deprogram myself.

 

[Colonel Green]

JPG compression masks the image's true thetan nature. Multiple passes through the JPG filter only result in the accumulation of negative engrams which then have to be audited. The compression algorithms were one of the primary mind-control tools used by Lord Xenu's army of psychologists to enslave the human population.

Auditors pet.

 

[propita]

Here's the deal with UU's: it is not a Christian faith. There are people there who probably believe in Jesus, but you can also find Muslims, Jews, Pagans, and even a few atheists who either like being part of some kind of community or who are in my situation. Since there's no real dogma, each church kind of does its own thing. There are seven basic UU principles, though.

Stolen from a UU website:
The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

As for the sunday school part of it, generally it's a lot of being a good person stuff based on the principles (without the supernatural threat behind it) and also, when the kids get a little older, a bit of a world religions survey. One text I saw included a fairly critical look at each of the major world religions (including mentioning that the gospels were written well after the events they describe) and included Humanism.

So, if you don't have kids whom you want to learn the concepts of being good--which, honestly are not that easy to actually teach at home--why would an adult choose to attend such a...meeting? Service? Get-together?

If one already knows these principles and tries to abide by them, what would be the purpose of attending UU-anything? To gain a deeper understanding or how to follow them more/better in one's life?

 

[Amaris]

JPG compression masks the image's true thetan nature. Multiple passes through the JPG filter only result in the accumulation of negative engrams which then have to be audited. The compression algorithms were one of the primary mind-control tools used by Lord Xenu's army of psychologists to enslave the human population.

Ah, that explains it. See, I would have just figured they were so cheap that they would save on bandwidth by reducing the quality of the images on their page, but your answer makes far more sense.

Try growing up Mormon. <shudder> I don't think I will ever be completely free of that mindset no matter how hard I try to deprogram myself.

That's why most people who move away from it and into atheism or another religion feel so odd, as if stepping through the looking glass. The baser instincts are directly manipulated when such religions take hold.

 

[gturner]

How about worshipping Lord Apophis, or maybe Ba'al or Nirrti?

 

[BrotherBenny]

I will now distill the UU philosophy...

The first rule of unitarian universalism is...there is no rule.

 

[Tiberius]

Now, there is a pretty cool looking atheist assembly that meets on Sunday in the Atlanta area, but it is farther from my house than I want to drive, so that's out.

it will solve your problem, yet you dismiss it because it's too far to drive?

The problem can't be that bad then.

 

[trampledamage]

Now, there is a pretty cool looking atheist assembly that meets on Sunday in the Atlanta area, but it is farther from my house than I want to drive, so that's out.

it will solve your problem, yet you dismiss it because it's too far to drive?

The problem can't be that bad then.

When you're trying to arrange an outing that you hope your three-year-old will enjoy, time spent in the car is a very important factor.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I've been working on an atheist Bible, but I keep getting Writer's Block.

Heh. You could list individually all the gods we don't believe in.

I'm just suspicious, to call it that, of atheism, because in many ways it is a reaction to theism and not a philosophy built on its own merits. It's about denial of something.

That's nothing to be suspicious about. Are you suspicious of non-smokers for not smoking?

 

[Kelso]

It is a liberal congregation.

The children in our Church learn comparative religion in their Sunday School classes, and this encompasses all religions, not just Western ones.

UU is more a spiritual and intellectual place of worship than a religious one.

Excellent info. Thanks.

A compromise only exists if both parties move halfway. I've been trying to get a legal agreement and get divorced for almost 3 years now, and if I've learned anything, I've learned that if you just keep bending and giving in and bending and giving in, trying to get a "compromise", your ex is fully aware that all they have to do is keep stalling, denying, fussing, refusing, etc, and in the end they get to just do what they want.

You have a right to set your boundaries. It's also your responsibility. Your daughter will thrive best in this situation with 2 involved parents who care about her, that means her life has to reflect both of you. Not just her mum.

I appreciate the advice and I'll keep it in mind. This is all pretty new, and I'm just feeling my way through it.

In addition to thinking about what I feel is best for my daughter, I'm also trying to keep in mind what she would enjoy doing. And I'm sure she would really enjoy getting dressed up and going to church with Mommy and Grand on Sunday mornings. So, instead of trying to take that away- and since it isn't actually harmful (even though I think it is not the ideal way to raise a child, I wouldn't claim that it is harmful to her. I turned out okay. I just think there are better ways.)- I think I'm going to try and supplement it by taking her to a chosen "church" of my own. We'll see how well it works out, I guess.

I see, thanks for explaining that. I can certainly understand that, as well as you wanting your daughter to think for herself. To me, it's always sad to hear about experiences like yours, because that is not how Christianity should be communicated.

Well, it's just a natural function of religious belief. With Christianity, a person is taught that the ideology is absolute truth and everyone else is wrong... and that any doubts you have as to its validity are caused by the devil and should be actively ignored. It is only natural that it leads to tendency to demonize others, anti-intellectualism, and a general lack of critical thought.

(Note: These are my views based on my experiences. The purpose of this thread is not to belittle anyone else's beliefs.)

Another thing to consider would be the conflicting philosophies your daughter would be learning if she goes to different churches and meetings every time. Sure, some will sound similar, but that's often only superficial. I don't see the benefit in mixed messages, to be honest. Consistency and structure are important for young children.

Yeah, that's why I am hoping to find one place that will give her a broad and open religious/spiritual education or exposure rather than taking her around to various churches, temples, or whatever else. At least until she's older... then we'll see.

One link.

www.scientology-atlanta.org/

Have a blast.

Where have you been all my life?

How about worshipping Lord Apophis, or maybe Ba'al or Nirrti?

Not bad. Then I could show her that Jack O'Niell killed them all and turn her into an atheist!

Well, maybe not.

it will solve your problem, yet you dismiss it because it's too far to drive?

The problem can't be that bad then.

It's an hour and a half away. So, yeah... the problem really isn't bad enough to drive that far with a three year old on a Sunday morning (as trampledamage said).

I've been working on an atheist Bible, but I keep getting Writer's Block.

Too late. Christian scientists have already proven the method of Creation.

(Swiped from the hilarious web series, Mr. Deity)

 

[iguana_tonante]

I will now distill the UU philosophy...

The first rule of unitarian universalism is...there is no rule.

And the second rule is... you don't talk about UU.

I've been working on an atheist Bible, but I keep getting Writer's Block.

Actually, I think you wrote all you need to write.

 

[Amaris]

Heh. You could list individually all the gods we don't believe in.

There's a good idea!

Too late. Christian scientists have already proven the method of Creation.

(Swiped from the hilarious web series, Mr. Deity)

I love that and I want the shirt.

Actually, I think you wrote all you need to write.

Well, it would be too short, so I'm going to fill the rest of the book with dirty limericks.

 

[Ohappydagger]

I am a member of a UU Church in Fort Worth, TX, and I was raised Jewish. The UU history is based on Judeo-Christian beliefs with a little Buddhism thrown in, but as a previous poster mentioned, the Seven Principles is what UU live by.

It is a liberal congregation.

The children in our Church learn comparative religion in their Sunday School classes, and this encompasses all religions, not just Western ones.

UU is more a spiritual and intellectual place of worship than a religious one.

from someone who lost their faith, UU is a wonderful place to find it again.

Yeah this is pretty similar to my experience. My parents were both atheists and often took me and my sister to the local big UU church. I think they mainly wanted to be part of a group and be around people, because atheists really don't always have that church counterpart they can turn to for support from a community. The UUs are more like a bunch of people who don't do religious dogma or ritual, but are interested in looking for meaning in their own contexts. I'm still a filthy atheist and not spiritual at all, but I still find UU services really interesting.

It's also very educational. Like in the statements above, a lot of UU groups are really into discussing religion and spirituality in an intellectual way. When I was a kid in the UU Sunday school, I actually liked learning about all the other religions. We celebrated all the holidays. We got to do Hanukkah, Xmas, the spring equinox, any opportunity to have a party and have candles and cookies and such. And in the end, you decide for yourself what you believe. Sometimes, it really makes you think.

I really liked the other UU kids. They come out educated and tolerant. That's the general atmosphere in my experience. It does depend on the congregation you go to. A huge UU church in a large city might be different than a small rural group. A huge UU church like the one I went to is more likely to have a month-long weekly Star Trek discussion series, like the one my dad took me to when I was 13.

I think might still be in the UU church now and then, if only I wasn't lazy and didn't prefer to sleep on Sunday mornings.

 

[iguana_tonante]

^ I'm a misanthropic atheist and even I find this totally awesome.