I don't see it that way at all. Those episodes did not have a problem with religion, as such. They dealt with characters who were assumed to be gods but clearly were not. They did make any judgments regarding the real thing...
Religion: Roddenberry was right!!
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I don't see it that way at all. Those episodes did not have a problem with religion, as such. They dealt with characters who were assumed to be gods but clearly were not. They did make any judgments regarding the real thing...
DS9 has always treated the Bajoran religion with respect, IMHO.
I thjink you are a bit off. In the beginning of WWTW, Picard equates religion, suspicions and fear in the same breath, like it's the dark ages.
I described only what the Bible says about it, summarized in words of my own choosing, (the pertinent verses I cited in a later post) and offered no assessment regarding their historical accuracy or truthfulness. I will say that it is quite possible to be familiar with these and other stories while retaining a healthy degree of skepticism. Even taken strictly as literature, some of them are pretty fascinating; check out the story of the meeting of Gilgamesh and Uta-Napishti (Utnapishtim) in the Epic of Gilgamesh, some time.
I think we may be wandering from the main topic, however.
Lightinspire
Lieutenant Commander
A cruel God that lets children suffer. My dear friend, how little you know of the bible.. EVERYONE suffers..just because you suffer don't mean you or they did anything wrong..that is just part of life..the gene pool is not as fresh as in the beginning so things happen. A lot of times people suffer thru the evil of a government, etc..just be patient my friend..the day is coming when all that will end. The Hebrews had to wait more than 400 years for their liberation as slaves..the end did come so rest assured all will be corrected in the right time. I have no problem with the religion thing in Star Trek (I'm a Christian btw) until it comes in direct conflict with the teachings of the bible such as Blood and Fire (gayness of it) but that subject has been beaten to death.
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
The lack of tolerance amongst Trek fans - who are all fans of a programme seemingly dedicated to tolerance - is truly scary. I knew going into this thread that I'd read lots of comments from morons that those with a religious persuasion should be shot/exiled/persecuted. To those people (inc. the original poster) - when you see Hitler, give him my worst, won't you??
And to those saying "religion has done more harm than good", or is responsible for terrible things... actually, it's the MISUSE of religion.
Here's something to think about: People have also murdered/done other terrible things in the name of
a) National pride/identity
b) Love
Let's ban those as well, shall we!! Yeah, no love anymore because some people take it too far!
I believe everyone is FREE to believe what they wish. What was it Sisko said "My philosophy is that there is room for all philosophies on this station". Well, change 'station' to 'world' and I think you get the point.
I am stunned by the lack of intelligence and respect, and the free roaming of lunacy and hatred, that is abundant on this forum.
And to those saying "religion has done more harm than good", or is responsible for terrible things... actually, it's the MISUSE of religion.
Here's something to think about: People have also murdered/done other terrible things in the name of
a) National pride/identity
b) Love
Let's ban those as well, shall we!! Yeah, no love anymore because some people take it too far!
I believe everyone is FREE to believe what they wish. What was it Sisko said "My philosophy is that there is room for all philosophies on this station". Well, change 'station' to 'world' and I think you get the point.
I am stunned by the lack of intelligence and respect, and the free roaming of lunacy and hatred, that is abundant on this forum.
Why do christians choose to ignore the hard questions?
The question is why doesn't God heal children who are suffering? Isn't He compassionate? If you had Gods power wouldn't you use it for good? I would, so in my eyes that makes me more compassionate and more caring than God.
There are three reasons why God doesn't heal the children:
1-- He chooses not to because he is cruel
2-- He can't do it because his powers are finite.
3-- He doesn't exist. (I'm going with this one)
Actually, there have been many theological rebuttals to all of these points, most centering around God's gift of free-will. I'm no theologian but I've read them and they all make sense to me.
Seems to me that religion is not the source of conflict. Rather, religion is a magnifying glass that a community's leaders use to strengthen support for their pre-existing goals. Religion taps into some very deep and very powerful aspects of the human psyche -- the emotional desire for a powerful parent figure who can provide you with the contexts and rules you need to make sense of the world and to affirm your own value, just as your parents did when you were a child.
Therefore, when those powerful psychological drives are tapped into by religion to motivate worthy goals, such as charity to the poor, enormous good can come from it. But, conversely, when those psychological drives are tapped into by religion to motivate dishonorable goals, such as the persecution of homosexuality, enormous bad can come from it.
Religion is neither good nor bad. It is simply an amplifier for the good or the bad that already exists within us.
Therefore, when those powerful psychological drives are tapped into by religion to motivate worthy goals, such as charity to the poor, enormous good can come from it. But, conversely, when those psychological drives are tapped into by religion to motivate dishonorable goals, such as the persecution of homosexuality, enormous bad can come from it.
Religion is neither good nor bad. It is simply an amplifier for the good or the bad that already exists within us.
Three rules:
1. God exists.
2. God is good
3. God is omnipotent.
'
You can really only only have two of three rules .. any two, be true, but to choose all three, you inherently contradict yourself
1. God exists.
2. God is good
3. God is omnipotent.
'
You can really only only have two of three rules .. any two, be true, but to choose all three, you inherently contradict yourself
I agree that there is nothing in this thread that hasn't been discussed by theologians and i'd like to see what they say but what i'm asking are pretty basic and straightforward questions that the believers on this forum haven't been able to answer.
That's it, God is a frakkin Q!!!!
I have a better idea:
How about, instead of two religious groups arguing with one-another over the alleged "truth" of their beliefs (whether those groups be Christians and Jews, Muslims and Hindus, or Atheists and Christians), we all agree to mutually respect one-another's beliefs and right to hold such beliefs unless one of us tries to use his/her beliefs to inhibit the personal freedoms, rights, and/or liberties of their fellow citizens?
Certainly genuine faith should not be swayed in debate.
But here is a tactic I see often: a person who does not believe will insult the believer and then claim that the fact that the believer registered an insult is somehow a sign of "weak faith." It is not "weak faith" or insecurity to recognize and point out the attitude underlying the rude comment.
But here is a tactic I see often: a person who does not believe will insult the believer and then claim that the fact that the believer registered an insult is somehow a sign of "weak faith." It is not "weak faith" or insecurity to recognize and point out the attitude underlying the rude comment.
I agree. and that little rule thing I wrote up there.. well I actually didn't write it. I read it some where i posted it because it was similar to another post.
I'm not trying to be argumentative but I don't want to simply scratch the surface of these issues
I'm not trying to be argumentative but I don't want to simply scratch the surface of these issues
Which is fair enough -- on both sides -- but I get very, very tired of and frustrated with the kinds of mean-spirited and ethnocentric attacks people launch on one-another's beliefs. I'm an Atheist, and I have my opinions about other's faiths, but in general I try to make it a point to respect others' faiths even if I think they're irrational -- because, ultimately, it's my opinion that a diversity of belief systems makes society stronger.
Very nicely put, Sci. Another thing that can make these discussions tricky is that for some of us, religion is really important. For some, it's important because we're believers, and for some, it's important because we think it's something everybody should think about even if we don't believe ourselves.
So to watch people take a question that has occupied some of the greatest minds that humanity has ever produced and turn it into a game or an excuse for crude humor and smartass remarks and gotchas (and nothing that I've said right here is pointed at anyone in particular, I swear) is not fun. It's...painful, really.
It doesn't make me question my faith, but it does make me question the manners, good sense, and seriousness of the people making those remarks. I mean, you know, somebody will say something unbelievably shallow and seem to think that whatever they said just answers everything, and I'll think "Is he/she really that shallow?"
I don't like thinking things like that about people. It's why I've avoided TNZ so far, and it's why I usually try to avoid threads like this one. These discussions are a lot more substantive - and frankly a lot more enjoyable - when everybody or almost everybody can admit that this stuff is, after all, pure opinion.
So to watch people take a question that has occupied some of the greatest minds that humanity has ever produced and turn it into a game or an excuse for crude humor and smartass remarks and gotchas (and nothing that I've said right here is pointed at anyone in particular, I swear) is not fun. It's...painful, really.
It doesn't make me question my faith, but it does make me question the manners, good sense, and seriousness of the people making those remarks. I mean, you know, somebody will say something unbelievably shallow and seem to think that whatever they said just answers everything, and I'll think "Is he/she really that shallow?"
I don't like thinking things like that about people. It's why I've avoided TNZ so far, and it's why I usually try to avoid threads like this one. These discussions are a lot more substantive - and frankly a lot more enjoyable - when everybody or almost everybody can admit that this stuff is, after all, pure opinion.
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