Religion, aliens, and humans

[Deimos Anomaly]

Why is it that aliens from all over the place not only are portrayed as being religious, but in several cases said alien religions are presented as actually being true (Bajor, the prophets etc, The Klingons and Stovokor / Grethor (that business with Be'lanna's mother) etc.)

...meantime, all the earthlings seem to be hard core atheists. Never a single adherent of Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Shinto, or any other earth religion is portrayed.

It's a weird paradox.

 

[Kegek]

Actually, there is Chakotay, who believes in a New Aghey variety of Native American spiritualism, but considering how poorly that was executed, I'll agree he barely counts. There's some vague religious platitudes and even an altar in TOS that are heatedly debated even today.

Basically, humans in Star Trek - especially TNG on - are Gene Roddenberry's vision of the perfect man. They're not greedy, they're selfless, they're moral, they're atheists, they're tolerant, they're unwarlike.

So human 'ills' are passed on to alien cultures. Klingons get to be warlike, Ferengi get to be greedy, Bajorans get to be religious, and so on. It's part of the reason DS9 was so interesting - it snuck back in a lot of human qualities under the guise of giving us more aliens.

 

[MarianLH]

There's no paradox. Human atheism comes from TOS and TNG, which were influenced by Gene Roddenberry's own atheism. He wasn't around on DS9 and Voyager.

In a way, though, DS9 is initially set up as a classic GR "false god" story in the same mold as Vaal, the Oracle, Landru, et al from TOS. The "gods" are actually just aliens/computers/a trick, and unlike the dumb locals, the wise Earthlings know it. Except Sisko, unlike Kirk, respected the Bajorans' beliefs. It's never explained exactly why he did, but maybe it had to do with the fact that the wormhole aliens, unlike Vaal and company, weren't trying to destroy or enslave the Earthlings.

The episode that introduced Wynn, where Keiko is teaching schoolchildren about the wormhole, is classic Trek. In later seasons the writers seemed to start taking the Bajoran religious seriously themselves, but everything can still be explained away by substituting "aliens" and "advance technology" for "gods" and "magic". Well, everything except what the hell the aliens were thinking...

As for Voyager, that was just bad writing. The Voyager writers' attitude seemed to be a muddled "it's good to have faith in something, doesn't really matter what".


Marian

 

[Frodo Lives]

Who wants to hear about boring old human religions when Trek's alien ones are much more interesting?

And as to their 'true' status, the only one that seems to be based in fact is Bajor's. The episode in which B'Elanna travels to Grethor (Barge of the Dead), specifically left it ambiguous as to whether she had actually died and gone to the afterlife, just as many human shows dealing with religion and the afterlife like to leave it ambiguous. Faith is a key component of all religions and if there's something concrete it kinda negates that. The Prophets being the obvious exception to the rule, although they were pretty much mythical until Sisko stumbled upon them.

Any other references to alien religions have either had an 'evil' alien or machine influencing them and our heroes have to save said alien civilisations from them, or been left ambiguous as to their ‘true’ status.

As for humans appearing to be all atheists, while that may have been Roddenberry’s later intention, I’d prefer to say humans have evolved enough to keep their religion to themselves, without forcing it down anyone else’s throat. Of course there are references to current human religions, (Joseph Sisko quotes the Bible, and Ben recognises it. Uhura recognises the slave’s Son worship in Bread and Circuses as meaning worshiping the son of God. There’s mention of a Hindu light festival in Data’s Day, etc) ergo they must still exist in the 23rd and 24th centurys, in some form or other.

 

[Balthier the Great]

That never bothered me so much as another omission in trekdom. Nobody believes in a non-native religion, and most if not all of the aliens from Planet X are X-ian.

Vulcans almost to a man believe in Surek, but you'll never find a Vulcan following Kahless, or a Klingon following Surek. Not many athiests on either world either -- Gawron may not believe in the "return" of Khaless, but he certainly seems to believe in Kahless himself.

It seems weird to think of it. It would be like every Arab on Earth just so happening to be Muslim, all Japanese being Buddhist, and all Indians being Hindu, yet no one outside the native cultures ever finding meaning in another religion. Most religions take converts, and in most cases they encourage it. So just as an Arab could be a Buddhist or a Christian, I think you could probably really find a Vulcan Kahlessian or a Klingon Surekian.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

The existence of aliens presupposes a failure of religion because one primary tenant of Judeo-Christianity is that we're created in our Creator’s image and we are at the center of our God's universe. If and when we discover living, sentient beings on planets other than Earth we'll have to broaden our views and search for meaning in our religious texts to explain their omission. This is what Star Trek does, by observing that we could no longer rely on it’s literal interpretation in that case, it takes universal moral principles and applies them to the Federation and those it comes into contact within that universe.

Star Trek doesn't judge alien religions any harsher than earth religions, only that none are less legitimately based on "real" objects of religious devotion than another. Those powers, no matter how powerful are never God, only godly in their control of technology, or understandins of the physical laws of the universe.

Therefore I've always easily reconciled this problem because I don't really expect to come into contact with any alien species in the near future, and besides, every alien or “forehead of the week” has been a variation of an Earthling anyway. Except the Horta?

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Deimos Anomaly said:
...meantime, all the earthlings seem to be hard core atheists. Never a single adherent of Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Shinto, or any other earth religion is portrayed.

The ST:TNG episode Data's Day mentioned that several crewmembers/passengers aboard the NCC-1701-D were celebrating the Hindu Festival of Lights, and that particular segment was produced while Gene Roddenberry still had a pulse. As for those ghastly Semitic cults (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Marxism and their various mutations), I would like to think that their more pathological followers were either physically exterminated, or - as inspired by Greg Bear's 1982 LitSF novel Strength of Stones - they pooled their money, bought themselves some shithole desert planet orbiting a star very far from Sol and relocated there en masse to continue engaging in their diseased camel-fucking mythomaniacal fantasies without bothering the neighbors.

TGT

 

[Kegek]

^
The Federation - at least, as depicted in TNG, especially the early first season when Gene had the most creative influence - looks a lot like a Marxist utopia. It's free from God, capitalism, and class, where nationality - even metaphorical nationality like alien races - counts for naught, and racism and sexism are nonexistent. It wouldn't stand out if put among, say, Social Realist depictions of Stalinist Russia.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

^ It wasn't quite that bad. If nothing else I faintly recall Picard expressing pride in his French ancestry on one or two occasions.

TGT

 

[Doomsday]

The Gored Thing said:

Deimos Anomaly said:
...meantime, all the earthlings seem to be hard core atheists. Never a single adherent of Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Shinto, or any other earth religion is portrayed.

The ST:TNG episode Data's Day mentioned that several crewmembers/passengers aboard the NCC-1701-D were celebrating the Hindu Festival of Lights, and that particular segment was produced while Gene Roddenberry still had a pulse. As for those ghastly Semitic cults (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Marxism and their various mutations), I would like to think that their more pathological followers were either physically exterminated, or - as inspired by Greg Bear's 1982 LitSF novel Strength of Stones - they pooled their money, bought themselves some shithole desert planet orbiting a star very far from Sol and relocated there en masse to continue engaging in their diseased camel-fucking mythomaniacal fantasies without bothering the neighbors.

TGT

It never ceases to amaze me, and to, frankly, sadden me, to see someone come to a bbs or website(and presumably be a fan) of a show that is devoted to among other things, such qualities as tolerance, diversity and enlightenment; and yet themselves be so blatantly intolerant and hostile to others just because he/she disagrees philosophically, and so clearly doesn't understand those he/she trashes in this insipid way.

At any rate, and more on topic, I agree that TOS and TNG steered away from Earth religion for the most part, probably because of GR's atheism and humanism. DS9 clearly established a more positive view of faith and the faithful, demonstrating that even in a space-faring high-tech future, there is room for those who seek a higher power, and see evidence of that higher power in our created universe.

 

[captcalhoun]

TOS steered away from Human religion for two simple reasons: one avoiding pissing off the censors and the Bible Belt and two avoid offending anyone by claiming their religion somehow failed to survive in to the C23.

 

[The Borg Queen]

Bajoran religion isn't real. They're aliens, not Gods.

It's like saying the people who worship Q have a "true" religion.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

Doesn't it beg an answer to the question, objectively speaking, what is a God, then. Q's only "fault," was an apparent cruel streak. He certainly wasn't lacking in the godly power department. God must be omniscient, omnipotent and invisible? There can be only one?

 

[Jaro Stun]

The existence of aliens presupposes a failure of religion because one primary tenant of Judeo-Christianity is that we're created in our Creator’s image and we are at the center of our God's universe

Well, TNG touched this in atheistic fashion and it was discovered, that humans, and many other Trek races were created by greatly advanced humanoid race long long time ago....=> basicly in their image

So I say, from religion point fo view, there's no need to tell that the existence of alien civilization proves bible wrong. Bible was written for humans, and so there's no mention of other planets, civilizations and so on... it 'd be too confusing for ppl that were living in times when bible was written.

And Bible states, that we were created in God's image, not that we're his direct copy. So in fact, Trek's humanoid races could be created by the same God (in his image) that created us. Isn't it that everyone complains that aliens in Trek are too much human-like?

Let's just assume, that there was not that super advanced proto-humanoid race, but it was God who created as, and aliens in his image => that's the way you can explain alien cultures in context of religion, without the need to claim, that religion is negated by the fact of alien's existence.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

I had forgotten about that episode, and it did address the forehead of the week sense many people observe in an interesting way. I'd love it if it turns out that we have relatives out there. That will be a great analogue to the result of a real encounter -- If an alien turns out to bear the slightest resemblance to humans, either physically (Carbon based? Bi-pedal? Cells? )or on an esoteric level we as yet may not recognize.

 

[Kegek]

Apogeal Alpha01 said:
Doesn't it beg an answer to the question, objectively speaking, what is a God, then. Q's only "fault," was an apparent cruel streak. He certainly wasn't lacking in the godly power department. God must be omniscient, omnipotent and invisible? There can be only one?

Well, there are clearly more than one Q, and the Q Continuum has punished him - showing that there are some limitations to his powers. Still, though Q isn't a god in the sense of the Judaeo-Christian monotheos, he is a god in the sense of the Greek pantheon, whose many gods were hardly omnipotent or omniscient, just very, very powerful (and immortal).

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

I believe Q was portrayed as being more powerful than any Greek or Roman God. If fact the only force that could check his power were the Continuum, the host of other "Q".

As far as being omniscient, he plainly wasn't. I guess the point is, A god will always be more than anything or any being we can experience directly. They will all be pretenders.

 

[Trekkin' Trev']

The simple answer is that it is a can of worms that the makers of Trek would just as soon not open, lest the show alienates (pun intended!) segments of the viewership. Just as certain stations in the southern US didn't carry TOS in the 60's, the same thing, sadly, would happen today if Judaism, Christianity or other Earth religion were discussed in any detail. Alien religions are inherently unthreatening.

It seems to be automatically assumed that in Trek, humans are free to believe in whatever and that it's generally respected, but it would be nice to occasionally acknowledge that a character is of a certain faith. One also wonders what has become of Earth's great houses of worship in the 23rd & 24th centuries. It would be an interesting thing to depict. Is San Francisco's Grace Cathedral, for example (which, by the way, is very active in the interfaith movement - Leonard Nimoy has even spoken there), still in use during the TOS/TNG eras?

 

[starburst]

Its unthreatening to a point as alot of the time on Trek (and other shows) they point out that the aliens 'gods' are not real and sometimes are species X using technology to make species Y do there bidding.

How threatened would some religious people be if the Starship Enterprise of another planet showed up and told the Christians/Muslims/Jews ect that their faith was misplaced because they know the truth?

 

[Deks]

Thing what I liked about Trek is how it ALWAYS portrayed so called `gods` as nothing more than alien species who had access to superior technology or entities with nothing more than psionic capabilities sufficiently developed to influence the universe on a universal scale.
Nothing 'god' like about it at all because we for example can manipulate the environment ourselves in real life, and in Trek humans do that to space through technology.
The Q do it through sufficiently developed mental abilities.

Any being with sufficient power (weather it's coming from technology or brain) will be able to manipulate almost anyone/anything and appear to those who resort to religious beliefs as 'gods'.