Relics: Saw it again

[Kobayshi Maru]

Yeah, the continuity error is with Generations, one could say that "Relics" already established Scotty as leaving on the Jenol*n before there ever was an Enterprise-B.

I don't regret the fact that Scotty is there in Generations, but it was a perfectly avoidable problem. Generations co-writer was the sole writer of "Relics", after all; he changed the character to Scotty knowing full well it ignored his own earlier script.

There tend to be these kinds of minor mistakes in a lot of Ron Moore's scripts. Though I doubt it was something he, Braga and Berman weren't aware of. The Generations script originally was supposed to feature Kirk, Spock and McCoy in the prologue. When Nimoy and Kelley passed on the film, it went to the others. When they signed Doohan, it was likely brushed under the rug to facilitate the film, which had a lot riding on it and hardly worth breaking their backs over one throwaway line in an episode that had aired two years prior.

The aforementioned continuity error with Scotty between "Relics" and Generations (which I've seen explained away by way of Scotty being disoriented after re-materializing after being in the buffer for so long).

Another error like this in the episode -- the Enterprise beaming Geordi and Scotty away at the last second despite the Jenolen's shields still being up.

Yet another (just off the top of my head) is the admiral at the end of DS9's "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" when the admiral makes some comment about Khan "two hundred years ago" - which Ron Moore sheepishly admitted was because he had Khan's line "Two hundred years ago on Earth, I was a prince!" stuck in his head, despite the fact that DS9 took place nearly a hundred years after The Wrath of Khan.

I don't really mind these glitches; Ron Moore has brushed them off as honest mistakes but also very minor ones not worth getting upset over. That's how I prefer to look at them.

I don't mind these, what I find more grating is Scotty touching things in engineering and coming to wrong conclusions like an idiot even though as an experienced engineer he would have known that you don't start messing around with a new engine before you've studied its specs inside and out. That seemed a little out of character to me, as if he'd gone partially senile and wasn't able to control himself anymore.

 

[doubleohfive]

Maybe he had gone partially senile. Who knows? Had anyone else ever spent 75 years stuck in a transporter buffer and then been observed to make sure there were no lasting repercussions (medically speaking of course)?

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Maybe he had gone partially senile. Who knows? Had anyone else ever spent 75 years stuck in a transporter buffer and then been observed to make sure there were no lasting repercussions (medically speaking of course)?

No argument there.

 

[Ghrakh]

We don't know why the Dyson sphere here causes a gravitic anomaly that brings transport ships out of warp.

It seems the way Scotty recounted it, the ship experienced malfunctions that didn't have anything to do with the sphere. Picard might describe the Jenolan as "an overworked, underpowered vessel, always on the verge of flying apart at the seams."

Maybe he had gone partially senile.

Well I never once got that impression. He was completely sharp and together, and still had all his chops on the Jenolan. His behavior in Engineering was just his hands-on nature.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

We don't know why the Dyson sphere here causes a gravitic anomaly that brings transport ships out of warp.

It seems the way Scotty recounted it, the ship experienced malfunctions that didn't have anything to do with the sphere. Picard might describe the Jenolan as "an overworked, underpowered vessel, always on the verge of flying apart at the seams."

Sounds familiar...

 

[EnriqueH]

Yeah, the continuity error is with Generations, one could say that "Relics" already established Scotty as leaving on the Jenol*n before there ever was an Enterprise-B.

I don't regret the fact that Scotty is there in Generations, but it was a perfectly avoidable problem. Generations co-writer was the sole writer of "Relics", after all; he changed the character to Scotty knowing full well it ignored his own earlier script.

You know what I would've adored?

Uhura and Chekov.

With Kirk leaving Uhura the bridge....finally.

 

[doubleohfive]

Yeah, the continuity error is with Generations, one could say that "Relics" already established Scotty as leaving on the Jenol*n before there ever was an Enterprise-B.

I don't regret the fact that Scotty is there in Generations, but it was a perfectly avoidable problem. Generations co-writer was the sole writer of "Relics", after all; he changed the character to Scotty knowing full well it ignored his own earlier script.

You know what I would've adored?

Uhura and Chekov.

With Kirk leaving Uhura the bridge....finally.

How exactly would that have worked, given that, you know, Captain Harriman was there?

 

[doubleohfive]

Maybe he had gone partially senile.

Well I never once got that impression. He was completely sharp and together, and still had all his chops on the Jenolan. His behavior in Engineering was just his hands-on nature.

Nor I. I was just humoring Kobayashi Maru's suggestion.

 

[Trekker4747]

Geordi does say Scotty's pattern had a teeny, tiny, winsy bit of degradation to it. You could argue, however small the chances, that degradation was parts of his brains containing certain memories that caused the discontinuity with his remarks and what "really" had happened.

Though, I do really like that idea of Scotty simply using hyperbole to remark how remarkable his recovery was.

 

[Nebusj]

You know what I would've adored?

Uhura and Chekov.

With Kirk leaving Uhura the bridge....finally.

How exactly would that have worked, given that, you know, Captain Harriman was there?

Well, to be fair, even when Captain Harriman was there how could we tell he was there?

 

[EnriqueH]

I just would've liked to have seen Kirk tell Uhura, "Take care of things while I'm away."

"I always do."

Kirk smiles.

I never got the impression Harriman was in command (though I sympathize with him because he seemed to be trying), I thought Scotty was more of the commanding presence there with Kirk leaving.

 

[Lance]

You know what I would've adored?

Uhura and Chekov.

With Kirk leaving Uhura the bridge....finally.

How exactly would that have worked, given that, you know, Captain Harriman was there?

Well, to be fair, even when Captain Harriman was there how could we tell he was there?

Captain Harriman wasn't really there until Tuesday.

I do know there was a cut scene where Scotty talks to Troi about his adjusting to the 24th century, as mentioned in Larry Nemecek's Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion, pp. 219:

Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion wrote:

"The writer [Ron Moore] mentioned two scenes he hated to lose: the "It's green" Ten-Forward scene with Data originally written for Guinan before her schedule ruled it out, and a filmed but cut-for-time scene just before that showed Troi's visit with Scotty after his blowup with Geordi. At first taken with "the lass" and her charms, Scotty indignantly declares that he's "not crazy" and tells her "I know what I need and it's not here!" before stomping off to the lounge. The three-page scene also revealed that counselors have been assigned to starhsips for about forty years--and explains why he gives Troi a kiss in what now seems to be her first appearance at story's end."

I'd have loved to see one of Scotty's further adventures after this episode, even if it meant he wound up on DS9, but I'm ok with this being his final chronological appearance on screen.

For those interested, the novels do plenty with Scotty in the 24th century too.

It's a pity Whoopi wasn't able to be there for this, because I think the Ten Forward scene would have been enhanced by it. I can even imagine the exchange with her instead of Data...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I just would've liked to have seen Kirk tell Uhura, "Take care of things while I'm away."

"I always do."

Kirk smiles.

I never got the impression Harriman was in command (though I sympathize with him because he seemed to be trying), I thought Scotty was more of the commanding presence there with Kirk leaving.

Harriman gets a bad rap. He always has. And it's unfair. He's got this reputation of being a milquetoast, but everyone has to start somewhere. You can't expect everyone to be as badass as Kirk.

Besides, one does not get to command an Enterprise without having some ability. They wouldn't give a posting like that to just anyone. Harriman must have earned it.

 

[EnriqueH]

It's a pity Whoopi wasn't able to be there for this, because I think the Ten Forward scene would have been enhanced by it. I can even imagine the exchange with her instead of Data...

Totally. Especially since Guinan and Scotty would both gone to be on the Enterprise-B at the same time.

How badass would it have been if there had been a scene in Relics:

Guinan: You look familiar.
Scotty: I always enjoy hearing that from a bonny lass. Where did we meet?

Guinan grins that knowing grin.

I just would've liked to have seen Kirk tell Uhura, "Take care of things while I'm away."

"I always do."

Kirk smiles.

I never got the impression Harriman was in command (though I sympathize with him because he seemed to be trying), I thought Scotty was more of the commanding presence there with Kirk leaving.

Harriman gets a bad rap. He always has. And it's unfair. He's got this reputation of being a milquetoast, but everyone has to start somewhere. You can't expect everyone to be as badass as Kirk.

Besides, one does not get to command an Enterprise without having some ability. They wouldn't give a posting like that to just anyone. Harriman must have earned it.

Oh, totally. I always defended him because he was trying like hell to do something. He was a bit too incompetent though, but at least he was trying.

 

[Ithekro]

To account for Scotty's not knowing about the Enterprise-B and Captain Kirk's death, I've decided to use information from even farther along the timeline and reallife movie making to account for it.

Star Trek (2009) has Spock call Mr. Scott's transwarp beaming formula form memory. He had to get that from someplace in the Prime Universe in order to give it to the Alternate Universe Mr. Scott. I put forward the theory that Mr. Scott's trip was just after the events of Star Trek IV (TUC) and that the first practical use of transwarp beaming was after the crash on the Dyson Sphere. He and Franklin beamed to Earth when Scotty told Spock what he did before getting the coverup from Starfleet Intelligence. Then later that year he attends the comissioning ceremony for the Excelsior-class USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-B).

However the transwarp beaming through the gavitational fields and other problems around the Dyson Sphere had a side effect. A reflected double beam (much like what happened to Thomas Riker) leaving a copy of Mr. Scott and Franklin where they transported from. Thinking the Transwarp beam failed, Mr. Scott did the next desperate transporter related trick, suspended in the beam for three quarters of a century. Was still only 50% effective, and he lost poor Franklin. The degridation spotted in Mr. Scott might not have been from the buffer, but from the duplication from the earlier transwarp beam attempt.

Thus Mr. Scott probably died long ago in retirement, and yet a copy of him is now alive in the mid-24th century. Mr. Spock might have even let him know about the transwarp beaming being successful and got an updated version of the process that Starfleet Intelligence failed to bring in, having long forgotten about it. Thus Spock has a recent and possibly updated formula in his head by the time he goes to attempt to save Romulans in the late 2380s.

 

[EnriqueH]

That's an interesting theory!

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

To account for Scotty's not knowing about the Enterprise-B and Captain Kirk's death, I've decided to use information from even farther along the timeline and reallife movie making to account for it.

Star Trek (2009) has Spock call Mr. Scott's transwarp beaming formula form memory. He had to get that from someplace in the Prime Universe in order to give it to the Alternate Universe Mr. Scott. I put forward the theory that Mr. Scott's trip was just after the events of Star Trek IV (TUC) and that the first practical use of transwarp beaming was after the crash on the Dyson Sphere. He and Franklin beamed to Earth when Scotty told Spock what he did before getting the coverup from Starfleet Intelligence. Then later that year he attends the comissioning ceremony for the Excelsior-class USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-B).

However the transwarp beaming through the gavitational fields and other problems around the Dyson Sphere had a side effect. A reflected double beam (much like what happened to Thomas Riker) leaving a copy of Mr. Scott and Franklin where they transported from. Thinking the Transwarp beam failed, Mr. Scott did the next desperate transporter related trick, suspended in the beam for three quarters of a century. Was still only 50% effective, and he lost poor Franklin. The degridation spotted in Mr. Scott might not have been from the buffer, but from the duplication from the earlier transwarp beam attempt.

Thus Mr. Scott probably died long ago in retirement, and yet a copy of him is now alive in the mid-24th century. Mr. Spock might have even let him know about the transwarp beaming being successful and got an updated version of the process that Starfleet Intelligence failed to bring in, having long forgotten about it. Thus Spock has a recent and possibly updated formula in his head by the time he goes to attempt to save Romulans in the late 2380s.

Not to nitpick, (but isn't that what we're all here for?), but I believe every starship of that era, and even of the era that preceded it, has access to a database containing the biography of every member of starfleet (cf. ENT, In A Mirror Darkly). They should have known that there was another Scotty that wasn't reported missing at that time, and I won't believe that at least Beverly didn't check that biography if only for his medical history.

 

[doubleohfive]

All due respect to you guys (and Barbra Stresiand) but I'm gonna be the rain on this parade. That all seems overly convoluted and unnecessary.

 

[Ithekro]

They did seemed surprised to find Mr. Scott. They didn't seem to know he was missing and it never came up. And half the time they don't look up records unless prompted to look something up. Other times they tend to not tell temporally displaced people about some things.

It is also possible the original Scott went into seclusion and no one recorded his death (or whatever happened was covered up by Starfleet Intelligence).

While Picard might have found out about it, they would also know based on what they found that this Mr. Scott has been there in the transporter for three quarters of a century. Even if they know he is a copy, they have no reason to tell him, or suspect anything aside from Mr. Scott pulling off another engineering miracle. Spock, or if still around, McCoy would be the one to do that.

(Complicated, but convenient to get around a simple casting and writing error. Also allows an odd connection between the older Trek and the newer Treks)

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

They did seemed surprised to find Mr. Scott. They didn't seem to know he was missing and it never came up. And half the time they don't look up records unless prompted to look something up. Other times they tend to not tell temporally displaced people about some things.

It is also possible the original Scott went into seclusion and no one recorded his death (or whatever happened was covered up by Starfleet Intelligence).

While Picard might have found out about it, they would also know based on what they found that this Mr. Scott has been there in the transporter for three quarters of a century. Even if they know he is a copy, they have no reason to tell him, or suspect anything aside from Mr. Scott pulling off another engineering miracle. Spock, or if still around, McCoy would be the one to do that.

(Complicated, but convenient to get around a simple casting and writing error. Also allows an odd connection between the older Trek and the newer Treks)

I don't know but the hypothetical other Scotty could have interacted with his relatives for years before dying, some of these relatives could still be around and would be surprised to learn about this Scotty. It would not be ethical of Picard to keep this scotty in the dark about that and causing a possibly awkward reunion later. The truth should have been his choice, in my opinion.