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Relics: Saw it again

It's just a little amusing to me that it's the second time Geordi has been asked to basically be friendlier with somebody. I can imagine if they did another episode about it....

Picard: *facepalm* Mr Laforge, if I have to tell you again to stop rubbing people the wrong way I will relieve you from duty until you complete mandatory friendship training with counselor Troi. I'll take it to starfleet command if you don't lighten up. Do I make myself clear?

Geordi: But Cap--

Picard: Dismissed!
 
He wasn't asking him to be friendly to Scotty, he was asking him to give Scotty something that will make him feel useful which Geordi agreed with. Geordi has been friendly with Scotty throughout the whole episode, it was only in that moment in engineering that he got agitated.
 
Not to mention that Scotty was kind of a legend among starfleet people at that point
How so? We never heard of such a thing. Sure, he got promoted to the Excelsior off the bat, but without any exceptional epithets. All other "fame" associated with him was purely internal to the crews of NCC-1701 and NCC-1701-A.

In this episode, our TNG heroes don't consider Scotty a celebrity, beyond the "he was one of those guys who rode with Kirk" thing. They don't even recognize the man, despite him looking exactly like he did during his arguably most famous 23rd century moments.

Picard says something awfully vague about him possibly having interesting stories to tell, but he'd say that to the Franklin guy if he were the one to survive the transporter ordeal instead of Scotty. It is only after hours of studying that he is able to have the more in-depth conversation on the holodeck.

Timo Saloniemi
 
What's up with Geordi in this episode? He's usually not that bad with people. He comes of pretty badly in this one. Well I guess he was pretty mean to Barclay as well. It's like Picard has to give him a direct order to become friends with every slightly annoying person. Maybe Geordi is extremely overworked and stressed out more than I realized.
Honestly, They trip back to this from time to time. Geordi can be kind of close minded & dickish socially if someone rubs him the wrong way, especially if they are treading on his turf a little bit or calling into question his work

This was his main problem with the real Leah Brahms (Apart from having built her up in his mind as something she wasn't). She was questioning his work, the minute she got there.

He's also really dismissive with the Exocomp lady over her project, & it took that warp protester lady killing herself for him to admit that maybe he can be a little close minded

If you don't kiss his ass or you happen to fall on the opposite side of an opinion, he can be a real douche, & here comes Scotty, having a ton of questions, & not really knowing his way around the tech of the time, but wanting to be in the mix, offering up advice & expecting a little professional courtesy, which Geordi has no interest in giving.

My favorite part of the whole episode is when Scotty crawls out from under a console & tells Geordi to ignore the specifications in the book, because he wrote them

Maybe 80 years later, Scotty's personage is not as celebrated as Kirk or Spock or Sarek, but in the field of engineering, his word is literally gospel, & Geordi probably should have known that & acted accordingly, imho
 
What's up with Geordi in this episode? He's usually not that bad with people. He comes of pretty badly in this one. Well I guess he was pretty mean to Barclay as well. It's like Picard has to give him a direct order to become friends with every slightly annoying person. Maybe Geordi is extremely overworked and stressed out more than I realized.

What's up with Geordi in this episode? He's usually not that bad with people. He comes of pretty badly in this one. Well I guess he was pretty mean to Barclay as well. It's like Picard has to give him a direct order to become friends with every slightly annoying person. Maybe Geordi is extremely overworked and stressed out more than I realized.

Not to mention that Scotty was kind of a legend among starfleet people at that point. One would think that that would have earned him some respect from this young punk.

Keep in mind Scotty is a legend to *us* to Geordi, Scotty is just another one among millions of Starfleet officers. Yeah, he served on a notable ship under a notable captain, but there are thousands of ships serving at any one time so chances are there's lots of notable captains out there. All Starfleet engineers are likely published in some manner or another and all have likely had their input used when coming up with specifications and procedures.

Scotty, to Geordi, is pretty much just another officer and otherwise not exceptionable.

Geordi very often gets a bad rep in this episode for the way he behaves and maybe not entirely without cause, but at the same time I've always been willing to say that I don't think Geordi's behavior is entirely out of line.

Again, it's important to remember that from Geordi's point of view Scotty is just another officer some 80 years out of his time.

So:

Let us first consider that the ship had just made a *huge* discovery. Not just in terms of the size of the Dyson Sphere but in terms of significance of the find. So from that alone the ship's staff is overwhelmed with what it has to do to get some basic info on the sphere before Starfleet likely sends a far more dedicated research and exploration team.

When Scotty first comes aboard everyone seems very willing to talk with him and find out what he knows. Picard makes an effort to come greet Scotty before going back to work and Geordi expresses interest in talking with Scotty about things but at that moment he's busy and Scotty needs some rest to recover from his injuries and time in the transporter buffer. In Sickbay no one blows him off, everyone is pretty welcoming and shows interest in talking with Scotty. Right now? They're busy and Scotty needs to take time to recover.

Scotty talks the ear off of some poor low-ranking officer who escorted Scotty to his room. Sorry, the guy wasn't rude, he has a job to do and that job doesn't include standing there listening to Scotty ramble on about his old stories.

Scotty is on a massive ship, a ship full of shit to do. Holodecks, gymnasiums, the arboretum and other flora/fauna centers, Ten Forward and a massive computer database Scotty and can go through to learn about everything he's missed in the intervening time. He, instead, opts to do this:

So, imagine you're at your job one day doing your work and in walks someone who had your same job eighty years ago. He's been a coma or something during the intervening time and has just came out of it and is interested in helping you do your job because he was the best at what he (and you) do.

Right now, you're overwhelmed with work. You've got a report to turn in to your boss, your regular stuff to do, and a lot more. Sure, this guy had your same job back when he was last around but so much has changed. Right now your equipment is built on microprocessors, chips, a high-capacity data line, and essentially everything you do is done on a computer as oppsoed to by hand.

This guy? When he did this job his computers were the size of a room, based on tapes and vacuum tubes and were essentially fancy calculators. Most of their work they did by hand and on paper. It's the same but *so much* has changed.

But, fine, you'll indulge him as much as you can and try and get your work done. So you're going along, indulging his stories and questions, when he goes over to a piece of equipment and starts messing with it. He sets off an alarm after he changes a setting. He proclaims that you're not doing your job right and that something is wrong.

What? It's right where it's supposed to be! It's running perfectly! Oh. but back in his time this setting is off. You let him know and move on. He shrugs and says the change makes sense now. He goes about his rambling and goes over to another piece of equipment and opens it up.

He exclaims that this piece of equipment is broken. Again, suggesting you're not doing your job right, you go over and, again, everything is fine. You tell him the machine is able to repair itself when it sees the need you don't have to mess with it.

You go back to your work.

He comes over to you and offers some advice.

Advice you didn't ask for.

He, basically, tells you you should lie to your boss in order to make yourself look better.

What?!

So, since this guy came in the room he's taken two chances to fool with equipment and, predictably given the 80-year difference between your time and his, things have changed; tell you you suck at your job. Now he's here telling you you should lie to your boss in order to make yourself look better?

If you, ask me Geordi showed remarkable patience with Scotty in the Engineering scenes. Scotty's behavior was out of line, Scotty in this situation has very little help to offer Geordi given the technological differences between their time periods and Geordi is running on a time crunch.

Geordi had expressed interest in going through things with Scotty. When he had the time.

Picard *sought Scotty out* to have a talk with him. This isn't the behavior of a man trying to give Scotty the brush-off and we all know Picard values his free-time and doesn't spend it socializing easily. But Scotty basically behaves like a child.

All love in the world to Scotty, but in much of this episode he was on the wrong side of the encounters he had with Geordi in Engineering.
 
No one is denying Scotty is a handful here. At least I'm not. He's going through some stuff, & I really don't think Geordi is terrible in this episode, except when he popped off, but how sad is it when the android is the 1st person aboard to give him a little social interaction?

BTW, my biggest gripe about this episode........ Where the F### is Troi ? There's been like 4 times in her entire career aboard that ship where someone is in legitimate need of a therapeutic counselling & where the hell is she? Got all the time in the world to handhold Mark Twain around the ship & violate god knows how much temporal considerations, but here's a guy who is now living in this time & she's just conveniently absent. Arm's all fixed Scotty. On your way. I can't imagine what other help a guy 80 years out of time might need

I mean wth else is she busy doing? She sure as hell ain't studying the Dyson Sphere. Imagine how much better Scotty's time would've been had she been there to just chat him up a while, pretty lady that she is. No Guinan. No Troi, & nobody in engineering to give the guy the time of day. I'd probably get shitfaced too
 
There's actually a scene where Troi visits Scotty in his quarters and she talks to him but he quickly gets onto and annoyed with her psycho-babble and calls her on it.

This scene is on Blu-Ray.
 
I don't know if this is going to make sense to anyone else, but to me, Scotty as played by Doohan is one of the few characters in Star Trek who looks "right" as a young man, as a retired man, and all of the years in between. And it's satisfying to see him at any age. You feel sorry for him in this episode because of the circumstances, but I have never looked at Scotty and thought..."wow, he's so old here, or he's so fat here, he really shouldn't be playing this role anymore." Somehow, a young whippersnapper or an old man drinking and telling tales, it all works for him and Doohan played the role just right throughout the years.
 
I don't know if this is going to make sense to anyone else, but to me, Scotty as played by Doohan is one of the few characters in Star Trek who looks "right" as a young man, as a retired man, and all of the years in between. And it's satisfying to see him at any age. You feel sorry for him in this episode because of the circumstances, but I have never looked at Scotty and thought..."wow, he's so old here, or he's so fat here, he really shouldn't be playing this role anymore." Somehow, a young whippersnapper or an old man drinking and telling tales, it all works for him and Doohan played the role just right throughout the years.

I agree, (hence my remark about him being old getting kinda old).

They overplayed the "old" card in that episode.
 
I don't know if this is going to make sense to anyone else, but to me, Scotty as played by Doohan is one of the few characters in Star Trek who looks "right" as a young man, as a retired man, and all of the years in between. And it's satisfying to see him at any age. You feel sorry for him in this episode because of the circumstances, but I have never looked at Scotty and thought..."wow, he's so old here, or he's so fat here, he really shouldn't be playing this role anymore." Somehow, a young whippersnapper or an old man drinking and telling tales, it all works for him and Doohan played the role just right throughout the years.

Yeah, props to Doohan, he always did a great job for Scotty and it is easy in this episode to feels sorry for a man who's lost in a world that's passed him by in more ways than one. When he's left alone in his quarters and he just sadly sits in the chair it's somewhat touching and heart-breaking on how lost this man is and probably speaks for how a lot of people in retirement age feel if they don't have children or their children are too busy and occupied in their own lives to visit.

I still think he's a bit out of line when he visits Engineering but how he and Geordi work together later on the Jenolan and later seem to become friends is nice.
 
I still think he's a bit out of line when he visits Engineering but how he and Geordi work together later on the Jenolan and later seem to become friends is nice.

Entirely agreed.

Honestly, it's not like Scotty would have been any more graceful about the situation if some old fossil engineer had shown up and started messing with -his- engines.
 
I still think he's a bit out of line when he visits Engineering but how he and Geordi work together later on the Jenolan and later seem to become friends is nice.

Entirely agreed.

Honestly, it's not like Scotty would have been any more graceful about the situation if some old fossil engineer had shown up and started messing with -his- engines.

What if it was Trip from the Enterprise, assuming Trip did survive of course?
 
I still think he's a bit out of line when he visits Engineering but how he and Geordi work together later on the Jenolan and later seem to become friends is nice.

Entirely agreed.

Honestly, it's not like Scotty would have been any more graceful about the situation if some old fossil engineer had shown up and started messing with -his- engines.

What if it was Trip from the Enterprise, assuming Trip did survive of course?

Yeah, I don't think Scotty would have been any more graceful and very likely a whole lot less diplomatic than Geordi was. (Geordi was at least trying to humor Scotty to a point while in Engineering and was willing to go through the changes with Scott, he just didn't have the time just then. Scotty, I think he'd be a lot more forceful, less diplomatic and probably pepper his rants with curses. ;)
 
Since television is a visual medium, surely a clearer picture is a better picture? I've not switched over to BluRay myself, but this comparison really shows the differences well. Not to mention giving a chance for the model makers' work to shine out in all its intricacies.
 
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