Relics: Saw it again

[Lance]

It's the gutteral reaction, the instinctive reaction. Just because Scotty was there at Khitomer doesn't mean he doesn't still harbor some sense of resentment when he sees a Klingon, after all as a part of Starfleet he'd had it drummed into him over many, many decades that the Klingons were the enemy. You don't shake that over-night.

I'm not saying he's going to pull out a phaser and start trying to burn Worf's ass with it. But after WWII it took a long time for those who lived through that conflict to completely set right in their minds that the Germans/Japanese are no longer and enemy, even though logically they knew it to be so. The rational part of Scotty's brain of course knows there's peace between Starfleet and the Klingon Empire, but his instinct is still to flinch when he sees Worf.

So, I can completely understand why Scotty acts like he does around Worf. That said, if he had been on 1701-D for a longer period of time, he'd probably get to know Worf better and feel much more personally at ease with him. I'm certain that on some level he'd be willing to try.

 

[EnriqueH]

I don't get why Scotty looked at Worf this way. After all, he was at Khitomer when they signed the accords.

I GOT IT!!!!!

At least I think I do.

Scotty recognized Worf from SOMEWHERE.

Wasn't Worf in the same bar as Scotty in Trials & Tribbleations???

Huh? HUH? HUH!

And didn't Worf strike a resemblance to the guy that defended Kirk & McCoy?

Huh? HUH? HUH!

Retcon anyone?

 

[Memory Alpha]

I really like this one a lot. There is the technical error of beaming through the shields, but it's a great episode, and it's probably the best way to bring a 23rd century character into the 24th century. Scotty walking into the shuttlecraft as the episode ends to embark on a new life is really rewarding. I just wish he could have had a chance to catch up with Worf. It would have been cool if this were a two-parter instead of Birthright, which is really two different episodes rammed together.

 

[Mojochi]

I think this episode is a lot of fun & a wonderful treat for the fans. It showed you some of Doohan's best gifts as an actor, in being very sympathetic. Unfortunately, it also highlighted one weakness. He really looked to be struggling & reading from cue cards when he delivered the technobabble about how he rigged the transporter after the crash. That tech jargon routine that Geordi & Data would do was not something the TOS gang tossed about so heavily, & it showed a bit with Doohan, but not so much as to make it less enjoyable

My only problem with this episode is with the conflict resolution of the mission. Once they figured out how to trigger the doorway without being tractored in themselves, then the logical next step after contacting the Enterprise, is to have them return to the entrance & wait for them to signal it again, instead of risking their lives, using the Jenolan as a disposable doorstop. They found the doorknob. Just use it. If the door shuts before the Enterprise can get back, just open it again.

It makes them look a little dumb really, especially compared to the brilliance of Scotty's arrival. Maybe if they had imposed some kind of emergency condition that forced them to exit immediately, like the radiation from the sun becoming critical, requiring them to exit ASAP. Apart from that, I can't see why they couldn't just sit outside & continue to open the door until the enterprise was free

 

[Trekker4747]

I don't get why Scotty looked at Worf this way. After all, he was at Khitomer when they signed the accords.

When slavery ended we still ended up with segregation among the races and Jim Crow laws in the south. We still deal with problems with fully trusting Russians because of the decades of bad-blood there.

Sort of as Kirk seemed to imply in ST:VI he could never forgive the Klingons, as an entire species, for the death of his son (committed by an individual.) Racism or hate towards a group you've always known to be enemies is very, very hard to overcome. Everyone in Scotty's generation grew-up with and a had always lived in a time where Klingons were more-or-less *the* enemy. You don't just reverse that overnight or even in the few years that passed between Khitomer and when Scotty boarded the Jenolan.

So, it makes sense Scotty would show some surprise at seeing a Klingon in a Starfleet uniform and give the person a wide berth when encountering him.

 

[BillJ]

Watching the episode now. I get the sneaking suspicion that Scotty would've been handled much better on DS9.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I don't get why Scotty looked at Worf this way. After all, he was at Khitomer when they signed the accords.

I GOT IT!!!!!

At least I think I do.

Scotty recognized Worf from SOMEWHERE.

Wasn't Worf in the same bar as Scotty in Trials & Tribbleations???

Huh? HUH? HUH!

And didn't Worf strike a resemblance to the guy that defended Kirk & McCoy?

Huh? HUH? HUH!

Retcon anyone?

I LOVE this, and I can totally see Scotty later deciding he needs to investigate this - would make a great short story for one of the collection books. That, and my story where the prime universe (not Prime like we use it, but prime in the sense that when you say "alternate universes", this is the one they're all alternate to) is coming apart, and the Q don't know how to fix it, so they give Scotty their powers so he can work on it for them.

 

[RAMA]

Ironic Scotty's best moments were on STNG

Well, if you discount "A Taste of Armageddon", "Friday's Child" and Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, among many great moments from TOS. Then I guess you're right.

Exactly. As far as building a believable character, Relics was much better than any of those by far. Even STII with a few good moments for Scotty, were basically one liners or short reads.

 

[BillJ]

Ironic Scotty's best moments were on STNG

Well, if you discount "A Taste of Armageddon", "Friday's Child" and Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, among many great moments from TOS. Then I guess you're right.

Exactly. As far as building a believable character, Relics was much better than any of those by far. Even STII with a few good moments for Scotty, were basically one liners or short reads.

In my opinion, no. "Relics" spends most of its time making Scott look like a whinging old man, not a seasoned starship officer. Scott comes across as a more realistic person in TOS.

Then they push him overboard just as quick as they possibly can at the end.

I imagine if Picard got the same treatment in the next series, TNG fans wouldn't be too pleased.

 

[Ghrakh]

I only meant that the end scene should have featured LaForge sharing that final experience with Scotty at a more buddy-buddy physical distance, and only abandoning him to his future adventures once the camera crew had departed.

I think they had a nice final conversation outside the shuttle, and then it looks like Geordi walked over to the shuttlebay control console (not the exit) to see him off.

 

[EnriqueH]

I don't get why Scotty looked at Worf this way. After all, he was at Khitomer when they signed the accords.

I GOT IT!!!!!

At least I think I do.

Scotty recognized Worf from SOMEWHERE.

Wasn't Worf in the same bar as Scotty in Trials & Tribbleations???

Huh? HUH? HUH!

And didn't Worf strike a resemblance to the guy that defended Kirk & McCoy?

Huh? HUH? HUH!

Retcon anyone?

I LOVE this, and I can totally see Scotty later deciding he needs to investigate this - would make a great short story for one of the collection books. That, and my story where the prime universe (not Prime like we use it, but prime in the sense that when you say "alternate universes", this is the one they're all alternate to) is coming apart, and the Q don't know how to fix it, so they give Scotty their powers so he can work on it for them.

I want credit!

 

[RAMA]

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Well, if you discount "A Taste of Armageddon", "Friday's Child" and Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, among many great moments from TOS. Then I guess you're right.

Exactly. As far as building a believable character, Relics was much better than any of those by far. Even STII with a few good moments for Scotty, were basically one liners or short reads.

In my opinion, no. "Relics" spends most of its time making Scott look like a whinging old man, not a seasoned starship officer. Scott comes across as a more realistic person in TOS.

Then they push him overboard just as quick as they possibly can at the end.

I imagine if Picard got the same treatment in the next series, TNG fans wouldn't be too pleased.

To be fair, he was out of his element. One moment he steps into transporter, with no way of knowing if he'll ever rematerialized. Suddenly he's 75 years into the future, his friend is dead and throughout the episode he's trying to cope with all these big things happening to him by doing what he knows best: Engineering. When that didn't work out, he went straight to what he knows second best: Drinking!

I thought he was given a wonderful arc that not only once again showed that Doohan had the chops, but I liked how adult the episode was in regards to old vets who feel they still have something to give. It's a fine send off that further humanizes a character that we only got glimpses of when past TOS show and films gave him his moments. I also like that when he gets his shuttle he decides then not to retire, implying that he still has adventures in front of him.

 

[Lance]

I don't get why Scotty looked at Worf this way. After all, he was at Khitomer when they signed the accords.

When slavery ended we still ended up with segregation among the races and Jim Crow laws in the south. We still deal with problems with fully trusting Russians because of the decades of bad-blood there.

Sort of as Kirk seemed to imply in ST:VI he could never forgive the Klingons, as an entire species, for the death of his son (committed by an individual.) Racism or hate towards a group you've always known to be enemies is very, very hard to overcome. Everyone in Scotty's generation grew-up with and a had always lived in a time where Klingons were more-or-less *the* enemy. You don't just reverse that overnight or even in the few years that passed between Khitomer and when Scotty boarded the Jenolan.

So, it makes sense Scotty would show some surprise at seeing a Klingon in a Starfleet uniform and give the person a wide berth when encountering him.

Yeah, exactly. It's like the analogy I made earlier in the thread: after WWII, there was a generation of people who, despite making peace with Germany/Japan, would never be able to absolutely trust them, not having gone through what they went through. And vice-versa, I am sure.

After years of Starfleet service and training, and years of war-time style hostilities with the Klingons, it would take more than just a signiature on a piece of paper to make Scotty suddenly want to hug Klingons.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I don't get why Scotty looked at Worf this way. After all, he was at Khitomer when they signed the accords.

I GOT IT!!!!!

At least I think I do.

Scotty recognized Worf from SOMEWHERE.

Wasn't Worf in the same bar as Scotty in Trials & Tribbleations???

Huh? HUH? HUH!

And didn't Worf strike a resemblance to the guy that defended Kirk & McCoy?

Huh? HUH? HUH!

Retcon anyone?

You know that's actually not bad. Not bad at all!


Of course that would make the writer a bit of a psychic, since that episode was yet to be written, but still...

 

[Makarov]

What's up with Geordi in this episode? He's usually not that bad with people. He comes of pretty badly in this one. Well I guess he was pretty mean to Barclay as well. It's like Picard has to give him a direct order to become friends with every slightly annoying person. Maybe Geordi is extremely overworked and stressed out more than I realized.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

What's up with Geordi in this episode? He's usually not that bad with people. He comes of pretty badly in this one. Well I guess he was pretty mean to Barclay as well. It's like Picard has to give him a direct order to become friends with every slightly annoying person. Maybe Geordi is extremely overworked and stressed out more than I realized.

Not to mention that Scotty was kind of a legend among starfleet people at that point. One would think that that would have earned him some respect from this young punk.

 

[Warp Core Breach]

Color me stupid, but what was the point of this post?

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Show a picture from the episode?

 

[MakeshiftPython]

What's up with Geordi in this episode? He's usually not that bad with people. He comes of pretty badly in this one. Well I guess he was pretty mean to Barclay as well. It's like Picard has to give him a direct order to become friends with every slightly annoying person. Maybe Geordi is extremely overworked and stressed out more than I realized.

I think he is supposed to be overworked and stressed out. Imagine an idol of yours comes along and it's initially exciting at first, but then it starts to wear you out when you're trying to get work done that it's no longer fun. In other circumstances, he probably would have had the time to show Scotty around but it wasn't a good time. It had to wait until the final scenes where they're trading stories of their own adventures. Also, Picard doesn't actually order Geordi to help him, it's more of a favor.

I get that TOS fans would be peeved with the way Scotty is used because he's a beloved character, but it would have been pretty boring if all Geordi did was bow down saying "I'm not worthy!" and that Scotty never has his own issues to work out. The show has to play out some kind of drama, and I think they did a good job here without betraying the characters. People are brought down so that they can rise up to the occasion and have their bit of catharsis, in Scotty's case, realizing he still has a lot to offer in the 24th century and through that decides not to retire like he originally planned. And as said earlier, it really gives Doohan a lot to work with and show the kind of chops he had that we only saw in parts in the past.