Relativity

[hux]

Aside from the fact that Braxton said he had "no memory of that timeline" at the end of futures end and this clearly contradicts the entire plot of the "relativity" episode, i have a question regarding another bizarre moment

Braxton says (when explaining why he hates Janeway so much)

BRAXTON: Thirty years of exile on twentieth century Earth. The temporal inversion in the Takara sector! Three violations that I had to repair.

firstly, he only lists two violations then concludes the sentence by saying it was three?? (what did i miss here...was this speech edited?)

and secondly, what is the takara violation he's speaking of - some have suggested "timeless" or even "endgame" but if that's true then what corrections did Braxton make and how come they weren't seen (since they basically get away with screwing around with time without any consequences in both those episodes)



time travel episodes.....

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Aside from the fact that Braxton said he had "no memory of that timeline" at the end of futures end and this clearly contradicts the entire plot of the "relativity" episode, i have a question regarding another bizarre moment

Braxton says (when explaining why he hates Janeway so much)

BRAXTON: Thirty years of exile on twentieth century Earth. The temporal inversion in the Takara sector! Three violations that I had to repair.

firstly, he only lists two violations then concludes the sentence by saying it was three?? (what did i miss here...was this speech edited?)

and secondly, what is the takara violation he's speaking of - some have suggested "timeless" or even "endgame" but if that's true then what corrections did Braxton make and how come they weren't seen (since they basically get away with screwing around with time without any consequences in both those episodes)



time travel episodes.....

One explanation is that he's counting the Earth/Voyager 1996 incident as 2 not one. I think after he went into therapy for his psychosis, the Doctors of the time went into the history books and discovered his "30 year exile" mentioned in Janeway's logs and how it factored into his over exposure to time jumps.

I don't believe the 3rd incident is "Timeless" or "Endgame".

I think its something that happens AFTER Janeway gets her crew home in "Endgame". (LONGwinded fanwank: http://coffeenebula.com/cgi-bin/board.cgi?read=152021)

 

[Guy Gardener]

They integrated the two Braxtons from Futures End into a composite being.

They were pretty blatant about the whole integration thing.

Tuvixing.

This also explained why they could get away using a different actor for Braxton.

They probably integrated all those corpses into Seven.

Which is a bit of a dick move when you consider she could probably have used the spare parts later in imperfection or a few other episodes.

from timeless...

EMH: Fifteen years?
KIM: Give or take a few weeks.
EMH: Where are we?
CHAKOTAY: In the Takara sector, just outside the Alpha quadrant.
EMH: The crew?
KIM: Except for us, dead.
CHAKOTAY: We think Captain Janeway tried to make an emergency landing on this planet. The ship must have been too heavily damaged. They were all killed on impact.
KIM: You've been buried inside a glacier for the past fifteen years.

They also stuffed a few Janeways into the same body too.

I wonder if they all have a separate voice in her internal "mono"logue.

Does she like that she's been tuvixed into a super janeway?

Isn't it a punk move to rob the potential lives all the Janeways rattling around inside the captain who should have lived their own lives individually?

Precedence says that they should be extracted in the name of common decency.

But if you eat someone you get their power.

Cannibalism 101.

The Doctor has to eat a "sentient" Hologram every two years or he goes batshit, but his life is paramount so that's okay.

 

[F. King Daniel]

As Guy said, the two Braxtons at the end of "Future's End" were Tuvixed together. Which, btw, is highly unethical - as is intergrating psycho Braxton with innocent and sane present Braxton as they say they plan to do at the end of the episode.

It's possible the other temporal events Voyager is said to be involved in are ones that were undone at the end, a la "Year of Hell", which we never got to see. Or ones that took place during Voyager's longer, original journey home as seen at the start of "Endgame"

 

[Guy Gardener]

As a deterrent.

If you knew about integration, would you ever think about crossing your own timeline intentionally?

 

[You_Will_Fail]

"Relativity" simply makes no sense whatsoever, one of the reasons I dislike it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Temporal aphasia means time-crazy.

If you travel through time too much you go crazy.

Crazy people do not act sane on purpose.

Of course it made no sense.

 

[preindetti]

Its voyager. Expect the nonsensical.

 

[Destructor]

It's just a fun romp! Taken in the spirit it was intended it's actually a good time.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Except its too stupid and full of holes to enjoy......and punishing a man for a crime he has yet to commit? That seems like a sunny 29th century!

 

[Guy Gardener]

But you see, they invented Heisenberg compensators two hundred years before Janeway was born.

It doesn't matter what they do in the past, the future might as well be the same.

okay we all talk about going back in time and killing Hitler, and then others counter, even though they don't speak German "I believe I could talk him out of talking over the world" but you know what, what if instead of shooting Adolph in the head at the age of 5, we tricked him into knocking up some girl at 17? Don't let him run, fce the music, marriage all that horrifying shit, but could Hitler have done all he did while having to support a whife and child(ren)?

At the very least the emotional stress would mke him drink, and at the most th regular commitment sex wold smothe out the bitterness in his personality, but here's the real point: the little git wouldn't have the time or the patience to take over the NAZI party if his missus kept dropping bundles of joy.

A vicious cycle.

 

[TedShatner10]

The relatively decent past Captain Braxton being charged for the crimes of his future self that could be avoided was pretty ethically revolting, it put a dampner on a otherwise fun episode, but it seems that the more involved in time travel a civilisation is, the more dickish it gets (look at the Time Lords and Q Continuuim, etc).

And look at Seven in her Starfleet gear:

 

[Guy Gardener]

Look at it this way.

The law says that any time travelling doppelgangers found stray, are collected and integrated with the local version of that person into a composite individual.

After the integration process has been completed, the innocent Braxton will be guilty because they're the same person again.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Look at it this way.

The law says that any time travelling doppelgangers found stray, are collected and integrated with the local version of that person into a composite individual.

After the integration process has been completed, the innocent Braxton will be guilty because they're the same person again.

Imagine if you were guilty for all the potential crimes you could commit, given varying life circumstances. We'd all be in prison. But never mind that because as TedShatner says

And look at Seven in her Starfleet gear:

She is stunning!

 

[JanewayRulz!]

The relatively decent past Captain Braxton being charged for the crimes of his future self that could be avoided was pretty ethically revolting, it put a dampner on a otherwise fun episode, but it seems that the more involved in time travel a civilisation is, the more dickish it gets (look at the Time Lords and Q Continuuim, etc).

IIRC, this idea was pretty popular back then. This ep came out 3 years before Tom Cruise's 2002 Minority Report http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/ was released.

ETA: I LOVE this scene! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_uxVjizLEM

"I don't care if history itself comes unraveled, I want to know why you are on my ship!"

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_uxVjizLEM[/yt]

 

[Guy Gardener]

Braxton JR wasn't accused of crimes he was going to commit.

Braxton JR was accused of crimes Braxton Snr had already committed.

Braxton SNR senior created a confliction schism paradox where it was impossible for Braxton Junior to make the exactly same mistakes.

Just the act of incarceration makes his futurecrimes impossible, and if his imprisonment is contingent on his future crimes, that's all the more reason to allow him to run free, unless the present is going to psychically condition braxton Junior to forget that he was caught out like and it's all being tempered into a predestination paradox

 

[jefferiestubes8]

I just watched this episode streaming on Netflix last night. A very enjoyable episode. Interesting to see 7of9 in an ensign aqua and black Starfleet uniform while in spacedock before the mission began.
In a quick scan of TrekToday reviews for Relativity

Vonda McIntyre's The Entropy Effect - the very first Star Trek novel from Pocket Books and one of the finest. In that book Spock chased a madman from the future whose double in the past had created a device similar to Captain Braxton's,

Other than the blatant theft of a previously better-told story

I had no idea there was a Trek novel that this episode borrowed the plot from. Has anyone else read The Entropy Effect ? Was the novel better?

I really liked on the future ship the console used for the temporal transporter had a circular control. Nice considering now we have iOS devices and computers that use multitouch and rotation control.

I didn't remember this episode at all and felt that it was a great episode with great on-ship problems. Most of the episode was set aboard Voyager. I feel this is a very rewatchable episode and had a feel of Back to the Future II with the timeline stuff.

What physical bridge set was used for the Relativity ship scenes?

Edit: Just looked at memory alpha and see it was a redress of the ENT-E bridge (from First Contact)

A smaller moment I really liked was seeing The Doctor activated prior to Voyager's launch.

He was his good old snarky self, annoying the hell out of Janeway and the Admiral and getting shut off in the middle of his sentences.

I totally agree. Very funny.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I really liked "The Entropy Effect", and although they cover some similar ground, I'm not so sure "Relativity" rips it off. At least, not intentionally. After all, with 700+ episodes, 11 movies and 400+ novels, there are gonna be a few similar stories cropping up.

And, about futristic controls, I know Voyager was very much limited by their budget, but I'd really expect a ship from 500 years in the future to have far more advanced controls than what we saw. The Relativity's were pretty much the same as Voyager's. Even the "Countdown" comic added some nifty foating holographic screens to the Enterprise-E in 2387.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The interfaces and appearance of technology on that ship, or even if the relativity was a ship, HAD to be fake to make sure that visitors from the past didn't gain any undue hints as to things that are to come.

I'd pull into question even the species of the crew that we saw, and the organizations they represented and worlds they were born on. The only way that they survive is by controlling the flow of information and ensuring that every one in the past is a dipshit they own, control or dupe.

I mean seriouly

What sort of frakking moron takes an Ipod back in time on an asaination mission to kill Hitler?

(Misfits. Not Voyager. Sheesh.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What physical bridge set was used for the Relativity

The Museum of Kyrian Heritage from "Living Witness."