Regarding Miles O'Brien

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Spot261, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ok, I'm going through a sort of DS9 re watch at the moment and something has struck me which I hadn't given too much thought to before.

    On the Enterprise we saw O'Brien on a periodic basis, initially on the bridge then more frequently as "transporter chief". It wasn't until much later that the character was rounded out beyond being a semi regular background face, apparently due to Colm Maeney's reluctance to sign a regular contract. For most of the series however he was portrayed largely as a functionary with little input, crucially not being all that prominent in either engineering or tactical roles ("Redemption" I think being the only time we see him in his old post of tactical officer)

    We learn in "The Wounded" that he had served as tactical officer (again, way outranking his role on the E) on the Rutledge and was heavily involved in the Cardassian War. This is later expanded on throughout DS9, including back referencing to the Setlik III massacre mentioned in TNG to make him the "Hero of Setlik III" where he apparently led a near legendary counter action.

    Throughout DS9 we see him very rapidly move back to this previous (unseen) level of prominence, becoming Chief of Operations (which also incorporates being the Chief Engineer) and one of Sisko's most trusted officers, bearing in mind at this point we could easily describe Sisko as being one of the most influential people in the federation given the diplomatic and strategic importance of DS9. Frequently his past experience as a soldier (being one of the few SF characters we ever hear actually described as such) is used as a plot point and much more senior officers frequently defer to him in such situations.

    So here's my suggestion for an in-universe narrative for the character:

    Prior to the Cardassian War he was a very successful officer on the Rutledge, reaching tactical officer despite not holding a commission, but the events of Setlik left him scarred. He had no desire to leave SF but was unable to carry on with his previous role due to the things he had witnessed. SF being unwilling to simply dismiss him gave him a compassionate break, they gave him a lower level role on their prestigious flagship, recognition of his service with (hopefully) much less stress and responsibility. He would continue to serve and hopefully make better use of his talents later but for the meantime would stay largely below decks and away from the worst of the action.

    As he increasingly found his feet again and began to outgrow this more menial role SF looked for ways to re purpose him. DS9 was not at this stage considered to be as major an assignment as it became so he was given an opportunity to develop and use his skills on a larger canvas again.

    The difficulty for me with this theory is how little of it seems to transpose onto the TNG portrayal. If he was capable of re engineering a starbase, using unfamiliar tech, from the ground up why was he so bypassed by the engineering team on the E? Why did we not more frequently see him engaged with Data and Geordie as an equal in all but title, being consulted on ways to jury rig their tech as we see him do so often later on? Why does Worf pay him so little notice in TNG only to embrace him so readily as a brother in arms on DS9?

    I get that the producers in some ways re invented the character for the new show and a lot of backstory was put into TNG series 7 to ease the transition but it just seems there is a jarring disconnect between the two.
     
  2. psCargile

    psCargile Captain Captain

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    Yep, that's the NCO's lot in life; do the hard work, pass the credit to the officers.
     
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  3. Bagofmostlywatr

    Bagofmostlywatr Commander Red Shirt

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    Just going off what Memory Beta has to say about the Rutledge, maybe becoming Tactical Officer was a temporary/field commission in light of casualties, and he wouldn't normally be seen to be qualified for the role, so got knocked back down when the ship was re-staffed?

    Or he stayed as a transporter chief on the Enterprise rather that working back up, because that's what Keiko thought was best for him to do?

    DS9 doesn't seem to have been a posting for people that starfleet recognised as being the best in their fields at the start of things, so maybe a none-comm chief engineer was deemed "good enough" as opposed to sending an officer?

    All of the above is, however, complete and utter supposition, and your idea would have made for a good storyline.
     
  4. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I"ll highlight
    You can't really explain it all, but you did a great job so far! Sometimes retcons are just clunky. No way around that.
    I would say that the Enterprise crew didn't have much of an idea of his engineering and technical skills; after all he was only a junior member of the engineering crew and mainly involved in transporter operations during his tenure aboard the E. Picard may have been aware from his personnel jacket that he had mad skillz, but so did Data, Geordi and Wesley and whats another enlisted grunt in a crew of a thousand?
    Sisko would have supposedly interviewed former CO's and colleagues of O'Brien when he put in his transfer request to DS9, and it's arguably O'Briens actions with Maxwell and the Pheonix incident which made Sisko take a closer look at him.
     
  5. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I recall a scene in the TNG finale "All Good Things" of future-Picard telling O'Brien in the past to do a bunch of engineering related stuff and O'Brien was wondering why he was the one to be called on to help. Future-Picard has faith in O'Brien because he knew he was the space station superstar but apparently O'Brien did not have the faith in himself at the time of Farpoint. Some geniuses sit quietly for awhile and are noticed much later.
     
  6. Leviathan

    Leviathan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Common problem - he had the talent but not the opportunity. Progressive societies ain't fixing that....except for possibly that aggravating society in a bubble from TNG season 5.
     
  7. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Unlike NuKirk, not everybody who proves themselves in one crisis earns a full time job. Also, there's so many people coming in and out that some can get lost in the shuffle.
     
  8. JonVP

    JonVP Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You could also say that transporter chief is a very important position on board a starship. Imagine Picard beams down a planet and there's a malfunction. You'd better have one of your more competent crewmen standing behind the console. The more complex or advanced your technology gets, the more you need highly trained men and women to operate things. The 24th century is for smart people only .
     
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  9. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But surely not as demanding as tactical officer or chief of operations?
     
  10. JonVP

    JonVP Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I guess it depends on the situation. If they get a distress call from a freighter about to explode, the chief would've felt a lot more pressure than a tactical officer. We usually see the adventures of a Starfleet vessel working at the frontiers of Federation space. I think when your mission is just travelling from one Federation world to another, space can be very boring. Even for a tactical officer.
     
  11. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    True, but that's one specific skill set using one piece of equipment which is almost always routine, followed by endless periods of pretty much nothing.

    I'd imagine the tactical officer has plenty to do outside of combat operations, maintaining equipment, organising security rotations (in crews lacking an security chief - the two roles seem interchangeable for some reason), training personnel, running drills, planning for likely tactical scenarios, reviewing past encounters.

    Chief of ops is almost certainly one of the most demanding roles on the ship, in many ways more so than captain, they are literally responsible for making sure everything runs smoothly.
     
  12. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    We find out that he is an accomplished tactician from the Cardassian Wars.

    It's quite possible that the war took a toll on him, especially killing and constant engagements and he retrained to turn his attention to engineering. We know during Setlik he used his engineering capabilities to aid them in defeating superior numbers, possibly manipulating Cardassian tech. So he gets a solid, after his dedicated service he becomes the chief transporter officer on the Federation's flagship. He spends a few years doing that, presumably a pretty busy and difficult job but in a far better environment, then the DS9 assignment presents itself. He seems to be perfect for that role, he has knowledge of Cardassian technology and tactics after having dealt with them for years, is quite technologically adept and has years of experience under various captains including Picard who gives a glowing recommendation.
     
  13. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Heck, note that Scotty--the chief engineer--often handled this personally.
     
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  14. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe the Eugenics Wars were more extensive than previously thought.

    Greg ?
     
  15. CaptainNog

    CaptainNog Cadet Newbie

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    I believe his engineering skills just weren't required on the enterprise. They had Laforge, data, and a whole team of engineers under laforge's command
     
  16. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They make a point throughout TNG of showing how it's very difficult to get a posting on the Enterprise, and that they only accept "the best of the best." It's part of the show's original premise that the people selected for its mission were all brilliant, didn't get into petty squabbling, and were "highly evolved."

    In later seasons you get the impression that picard doesn't normally accept anyone with any stains on their record('Ensign Ro', 'Lower Decks')

    So if O'brien got a posting on the Enterprise as "Transporter Chief," then it must mean he's the best damned Transporter Chief in Starfleet, and that his position at DS9 was small potatoes in comparison.
     
  17. SoullessMinion

    SoullessMinion Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't know about that. In "Way of the Warrior" O'Brien and Word discussed DS9 vs. the Enterprise, and O'Brien clearly seemed to think the former was more fulfilling, no matter how prestigious a posting the Enterprise may have been. On DS9, he was senior staff and responsible for ALL the engineering responsibilities as opposed to spending his days beaming people to and fro.
     
  18. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can't help but agree here, no matter how sophisticated a device a transporter is it's still just one device, one whose maintainence and repair would fall under the purview of the engineering team anyway.

    Chief of ops is literally the ship/station's manager as compared to the captain being CEO. That strikes me as being far more wide ranging, varied and responsible a position than transporter chief, one which would incorporate the activities of the transporter team in it's jurisdiction.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  19. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, that's what I'm saying. He would enjoy working at DS9 more. He went from a small fish in a big pond to a big fish in a small pond(no, im not saying the station was smaller, but O'brien was now on the Senior staff) Anyways, in terms of prestige, Transporter chief on the Enterprise may be equal to Chief Engineer on an alien space station. Besides, he ain't complaining. He did, afterall, get serve under the best Captain in Starfleet 3 times!
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We got a pretty extensive and detailed description of O'Brien's career. Indeed, that's the cause of our problems - there was so much of this backstory that it starts to contradict itself. But I doubt we were supposed at any point to think that O'Brien would be a big name, or a leader, or somebody with great career ambitions.

    The only jarring bit (apart from the costuming department of TNG giving him officer pips for a while) is that Tactical Officer thing. Not that he couldn't be part of the Tactical team of the Rutledge (the references never say he was the Chief TO, just one of the lot). It's just that he wasn't supposed to be an officer. Or even much of a sergeant or anything: the second time he went to Setlik III, he "led two dozen men", but in dramatic circumstances where a lowly corporal could have aroused entire platoons into surprise victory with his reckless taking of point.

    Mind you, Tactical Officer need not be the guy pushing the phaser trigger buttons on a starship. Some of the Tactical Officers could well be specialists in planetside fighting, and O'Brien might have been one of those. I mean, that's how I'd make use of his skills if I were Captain Maxwell, freshly saved from the Setlik surface ambush by one of my Marines. O'Brien never demonstrated any skill in starship combat, really - the best he (his clone!) could do there was make a runabout come ahead in a chase in "Whispers".

    Timo Saloniemi