Redshirt historians?

[Christopher]

I just realized something odd. In the course of the live-action and animated adventures of Kirk's Enterprise, we have seen two ship's historians, Lt. Marla McGivers from "Space Seed" and Lt. Erikson from "Yesteryear." Both of them have worn red uniforms, the color of operations and ship's services. Why is this? Logically, historians should be in science blue. We've seen that archaeology and anthropology officers are in blue, and so are librarians. Clearly the science department incorporates "soft" sciences as well as "hard." So why would Starfleet's bureaucracy not count history together with the other sciences?

Of course, the real-world reason is probably that the makers of "Space Seed" thought Madlyn Rhue looked better in red, or maybe it was just that they had a leftover yeoman's uniform that happened to fit her or something. And Erikson's uniform was probably made red so he'd be easier to tell apart from McCoy in wide shots. But it does establish a seemingly consistent pattern, two out of two, and I'm wondering if there's some way to rationalize it. Could history be considered a branch of communications or something?

 

[Basill]

Of course, the real-world reason is probably that the makers of "Space Seed" thought Madlyn Rhue looked better in red, or maybe it was just that they had a leftover yeoman's uniform that happened to fit her or something. And Erikson's uniform was probably made red so he'd be easier to tell apart from McCoy in wide shots. But it does establish a seemingly consistent pattern, two out of two, and I'm wondering if there's some way to rationalize it. Could history be considered a branch of communications or something?

Interesting thought. I agree it is probably just the appearance factor. Red headed McGivers was perfect in red, and Jan Shutan as Mira Romaine definitely looked better in blue with those eyes.

In universe however, Perhaps being a ship's historian was more of a side job that only came into full force when required. McGivers's listing in the Memory Alpha Wiki indicates that she was rarely called on for that task, though I don't know if there is any dialogue to support this. Perhaps the officers in question actually had other, more operational duties when not being an encylopedia for crew missions.

 

[Mysterion]

Maybe two different flavors of historian (or uses of the word) at work here?

On the one hand, you've got the social sciences type historians who would wear blue and be slotted in the Sciences Department. On the other you've got the ship's archivists and log/record keeper historians who keep track of who was doing what on what ship when for the offical record/history of Starfleet.

Your milage may vary.

@Basil: Wouldn't communications and linguistics be related? Would a linguist be in blue as oppossed to a radio operator in red? *shrug*

 

[Pauln6]

Another one was Ann Mulhall. You can understand why McGyvers might have studied history and been assigned to that role while her main assignment was supervising a part of engineering. However, Mulhall was obviously a Phd equivalent and a Lt-commander to boot. One would have thought that astrobiology was a key role in the science department on a deep space mission yet she appears to be primarily posted to engineering and has quite a bit of knowledge about robotics. I wonder if the script was changed and she was originally planned to be something a bit more technical?

Charlene Masterson also appeared to be in charge of an engineering department while being dressed in science blue. Plus the occasional redshirt sat at helm.

 

[JarodRussell]

I never saw a good reason for having a "ship historian", so it surely is only a sidejob. Someone who had very good grades in history classes at the academy and shows a general interest in history, but repairs the replicators 24/7. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense. What do they need a "historian" for?

 

[Mysterion]

I never saw a good reason for having a "ship historian", so it surely is only a sidejob. Someone who had very good grades in history classes at the academy and shows a general interest in history, but repairs the replicators 24/7. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense. What do they need a "historian" for?

Like I said - someone responsible for keeping a complete and accurate record of the ship's activites. To be used against them later in court, or whatever else Starfleet might need/want. Probably related to (or another name for) the Records Officer we see in Court Martial.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Perhaps Starfleet historians are considered shipboard services personnel more than scientists.

 

[Christopher]

In universe however, Perhaps being a ship's historian was more of a side job that only came into full force when required. McGivers's listing in the Memory Alpha Wiki indicates that she was rarely called on for that task, though I don't know if there is any dialogue to support this.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/24.htm

KIRK: ...Oh, I'll need somebody familiar with the late 20th-Century Earth. Here's a chance for that historian to do something for a change. What's her name? McIvers?
SPOCK: Lieutenant McGivers.

Although Memory Alpha's interpretation may not be the only one. It could be that Kirk felt she wasn't pulling her weight.

On the one hand, you've got the social sciences type historians who would wear blue and be slotted in the Sciences Department. On the other you've got the ship's archivists and log/record keeper historians who keep track of who was doing what on what ship when for the offical record/history of Starfleet.

But McGivers was a student of Earth history, particularly leaders such as Alexander and Napoleon, and Erikson was a member of an expedition through the Guardian of Forever to study "the dawn of Orion." So it doesn't make sense for either of them to be simply record-keepers for the ship.

Although it's possible that they could've served that role as their primary job and only occasionally gotten to use their other historical training. So you could be onto something there.

However, the one records officer we've seen, Ben Finney, was wearing gold. Although he was also wearing the wrong rank stripes, so Memory Alpha suggests he wasn't wearing his proper tunic.

I never saw a good reason for having a "ship historian", so it surely is only a sidejob. Someone who had very good grades in history classes at the academy and shows a general interest in history, but repairs the replicators 24/7. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense. What do they need a "historian" for?

Umm, other planets have histories too. You can't meaningfully explore a strange new world unless you learn about its history. Not to mention that understanding historical processes from known planets can help you understand the society and politics of a new planet. In the course of my science-fiction writing, I've found that the knowledge I gained from studying history in college has been at least as useful to my work as the knowledge I gained from studying physics, because of the insights it provided into how cultures develop, interact, react to change, and so forth.

 

[Ziriath]

I think the division thingy was not so important then. The actors just got the colour, which suited them the best. And they could have two assignments, as was said.

 

[Therin of Andor]

We chatted about this when "Crucible: McCoy" came out, because David George had never seen the script of "Yesteryear" and he had to make a wild stab about which character was the ship's historian, because the footage didn't attribute the names.

Some historian duties probably fall to ship's services, and others fall within Science.

 

[ChristopherPike]

If McGivers specialised in the study of Military History, wouldn't that come under Security and Tactical?

Doesn't fit with the sexism in TOS, and boys would typically the ones playing with tin soldiers. Recreating great campaigns and strategies leaders of men had in the past. So naturally they gave her artist leanings, to paint such figures instead.

 

[Pauln6]

On a 5-year mission with only 430 crew most, if not all, crew would have more than one assignment. We do have to distinguish history from anthropology though. One is a study of events and the other the study of cultural development. I would have said that Palamis was an anthroplogist and of much more use than a mere Earth historian, although I should imagine that there was quite a bit of overlap with those disciplines and archaelogy. Then you have paleobiology (fossils), geology, and geophysics all linking in.

Basically, I think Trek's landing parties were all largely under-qualified. We should have seen Palamis and McGyvers pulling a lot more landing duties - Miri would have been an obvious one for starters!

 

[Sir Rhosis]

The script I own of "Space Seed" has a scene either not shot or cut which indeed indicated McGivers' historian duties were in addition to her regular job as (iirc) a "systems control specialist," or some such. But since it was not shown on screen, all interpretations are possible.

Sir Rhosis

 

[Timo]

I'm happy with having McGivers be a redshirt by day job, and not be required to change clothes for the once-in-five-years occasion when her secondary skills are in demand. It's slightly odd that Erikson would be a temp, though, when the mission apparently was one of history research from the outset; it would no longer have been a surprise for our heroes that the Guardian let them have peeks at history! Perhaps Erikson was the equivalent of the many red-clad yeomen who kept records of important expeditions - with a helpful competence in history, much like we could speculate that Mears of "The Galileo Seven" had a useful competence in astrophysics.

Masters is easy to explain as the flip side of the coin: her skills at "dilithium CPR" would be rarely needed, and might be high science as opposed to mundane everyday engineering. If Kirk's ship were one of today's nuclear vessels, Masters would be wearing a white lab coat for her rare feat of tickling the uranium in the reactor back to life after a complex hiccup that can only be explained by quantum chromodynamics in the first place...

I love the idea of Finney wearing the wrong shirt. As discussed earlier, he had to have a stash of food and clothing in order to execute his dastardly plan, and stashing away his own clothes for the purpose would be revealed when his cabin was "posthumously" searched.

Mulhall still appears to be the most difficult of the lot to "explain". To be sure, it was Sargon hand-picked her for the task - Kirk didn't even know who this Lieutenant Commander was! Was Mulhall even for real? Or if she were human, was she part of the Enterprise crew, or was she abducted from somewhere else? She seemed to have a few holes in her memory, such as not remembering who had summoned her for the landing party duty.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Greg Cox]

Given how many times the Enterprise ended up on a gangster planet or a Roman planet or a Nazi planet or an American Indian planet, you'd think that being the ship's historian would be a full-time job!

The really puzzling part is why Marla never took part in any of the time-travel missions . . . .

 

[Pauln6]

Perhaps Erikson was the equivalent of the many red-clad yeomen who kept records of important expeditions - with a helpful competence in history, much like we could speculate that Mears of "The Galileo Seven" had a useful competence in astrophysics.

Masters is easy to explain as the flip side of the coin: her skills at "dilithium CPR" would be rarely needed, and might be high science as opposed to mundane everyday engineering. If Kirk's ship were one of today's nuclear vessels, Masters would be wearing a white lab coat for her rare feat of tickling the uranium in the reactor back to life after a complex hiccup that can only be explained by quantum chromodynamics in the first place...

Mulhall still appears to be the most difficult of the lot to "explain". To be sure, it was Sargon hand-picked her for the task - Kirk didn't even know who this Lieutenant Commander was! Was Mulhall even for real? Or if she were human, was she part of the Enterprise crew, or was she abducted from somewhere else? She seemed to have a few holes in her memory, such as not remembering who had summoned her for the landing party duty.

All very good points. Masters was probably part of the High Energy Physics department and spent much of her time experimenting in goggles or being engaged in the analysis of astrophysical phenomena (and that's not a euphamism).

It is hard to understand how Kirk could not have known who Mulhall was - she was one of his top ten ranking officers! She's one of the characters I would have liked to see again. She's also one of the better TOS female characters to update and introduce into NuTrek.

It's also a valid point that yeomen would not have just been trained to make coffee and use tricorders. Even Rand, who was often as dumb as hay, recognised statistical information about the planet in Miri and identified the planet as being the same as Earth before the image appeared on screen (although that could have been more to do with the editing of the episode than an indication of her scientific qualifications).

 

[Timo]

Sargon could have been playing tricks falling short of abduction here. He'd need somebody who knew about android bodies and mind transfer and other future "astrobiology" stuff essential for his survival. Perhaps he recognized that the correct sort of expert was aboard, but held the useless rank of Ensign, and he thus promoted her in order to qualify her for the away team? (And for a potential future body to live in...)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gwenhwyfar]

You know, I thought it would be fairly obvious what the use of historians are on the starfleet.

Should the crewmen ever come across old and ancient technology, historians would be able to pinpoint what they are or at least similar to any of the old technology of other species.

I think they also play some role in linking common ancestry between species. How the Romulans came to be is certainly a historical record.

 

[Christopher]

You know, I thought it would be fairly obvious what the use of historians are on the starfleet.

Should the crewmen ever come across old and ancient technology, historians would be able to pinpoint what they are or at least similar to any of the old technology of other species.

Nice idea, but understanding ancient technology would fall more under the purview of an archaeologist or anthropologist. Historians focus on the study of written records or oral accounts of the past.

 

[Gwenhwyfar]

Yeah, you're right.. I was thinking that archaeologists play better at that role, but it's undeniable that archaeologists are both historians and scientists.

Nevertheless, historians have other important roles such as being able to inform events that happened between known planets that could explain their sour attitude towards each other or their possible hostility towards you. They hold the ancient record books to past activities of civilizations that might prove relevant.

I know that the episode of the starfleet meeting Khan for the first time showed relevance towards the role of the historian as McGiver was able to give some insight on Khan's old ship.