Rebooted Universe more like ours?

[Queen Mab]

Does anyone see the rebooted universe as more like ours?

People driver cars, they rider motorbikes, they drink whiskeys and such.

When people are walking down the city streets, there seems to be more commercial enterprising society likely and advertising types everywhere.

There seems to be Television programming which didnt seem popular in previous shows. Certainly the newsmedia is adapted.

United Kingdom seems to exist, which points to monarchs and gods. The starfleet is seen to be very Earth focused, much like an analogy for countries in today's alliances.

People are mithering and listening to Beasties Boys which is a change from only Jazz and Classical from previous shows. There seems to be more hotsteppers like Kirk being thought of as cool, rather than detriments.

Overall though, I think the world is a more pragmatic utopia than the one incepted in 1960s, honed by the last 4 decades of real history. You are thinking the same? Agree?

 

[Spot261]

Errr

People have always drove some form of wheeled vehicles in trek and whisky has actually been a pretty common drink for characters. McCoy drinking it in BEY is a nod to him enjoying a shot in duty in TOS. Picard and Scotty were also shown to be scotch drinkers.

It specifically states Beastie Boys are by that point considered "classical", which is largely what you would expect given the time frame, Beethoven was considered edgy in his day, as were many composers throughout history. Many of them still ARE by those who know a wee bit about them.

Trek has always been earth focused in that it has been shown to be the capital planet of the federation, not sure about the UK though, were did that reference come in and why would there be a link to religion?

 

[Timo]

Also, insertion of a couple of random features from the past decades isn't helping with making the fictional future "more plausible" or "more like ours" in the 23rd century sense. It's just resetting the decade at which the universe is dated, as in "Boy, Star Trek looks so dated!", a few years hence.

It's still that same place and time where humans fly at warp to meet Klingons and Romulans and fire phasers and photon torpedoes at their shields before beaming over and giving morally arousing speeches. We're still waiting for noticeable ideological or thematical changes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Queen Mab]

Errr

People have always drove some form of wheeled vehicles in trek and whisky has actually been a pretty common drink for characters. McCoy drinking it in BEY is a nod to him enjoying a shot in duty in TOS. Picard and Scotty were also shown to be scotch drinkers.

It specifically states Beastie Boys are by that point considered "classical", which is largely what you would expect given the time frame, Beethoven was considered edgy in his day, as were many composers throughout history. Many of them still ARE by those who know a wee bit about them.

Trek has always been earth focused in that it has been shown to be the capital planet of the federation, not sure about the UK though, were did that reference come in and why would there be a link to religion?

When is the Wheel Cars seen on Federation? I've only remembered the Argo shuttle?
Not drinking Whiskey, but having grunging little public houses.

Yes, in this universe, the characters like Beastie Boys and stuff. In the last iteration only people listened to Jazz and Classical and things.

In the old iteration there was no focus on the United Kingdom or much on other countries. The link is because the story of the Commonwealth Monarch is appointed The Lord the popular modern god.

Also, insertion of a couple of random features from the past decades isn't helping with making the fictional future "more plausible" or "more like ours" in the 23rd century sense. It's just resetting the decade at which the universe is dated, as in "Boy, Star Trek looks so dated!", a few years hence.

It's still that same place and time where humans fly at warp to meet Klingons and Romulans and fire phasers and photon torpedoes at their shields before beaming over and giving morally arousing speeches. We're still waiting for noticeable ideological or thematical changes.

Timo Saloniemi

Yess, it is those elements that I am refering to. They have made it more like The Day Today.

Are you wanting changes to the idealogical or the themepack? Wouldn't that kill the essence?

 

[Spot261]

When is the Wheel Cars seen on Federation? I've only remembered the Argo shuttle?
Not drinking Whiskey, but having grunging little public houses.

Wheeled cars such as Tom Paris being an afficionado 1960's automobiles? Charles Tucker talking about parking up with his girlfriend in one? The "Jupiter 8" we see being sold in "Bread and Circuses"? Tucker telling Phlox he wouldn't buy one off him?

Yes they are kind of under represented as the show is set in space, but they are quite clearly evident well into the 24th century.

Picard was stabbed in a bar fight whilst drinking, half the ENT crew got into a brawl in a bar during the Xindi crisis, McCoy was arrested trying to book an unlicensed flight in a bar - one that was on a starbase no less. One of the most iconic scenes of TOS is an orion slave girl dancing in what amounts to basically a strip joint with SF officers as paying customers. Several times we see TNG characters in bars throughout the series, within federation space, not to mention Quark's being one of several on DS9, one where some degree of lenience is seemingly allowed for prostitution.

Yes, in this universe, the characters like Beastie Boys and stuff. In the last iteration only people listened to Jazz and Classical and things.

"and things" "and stuff" - it would help if you defined your terms a little more concisely here - jazz and classical are pretty broad terms as we currently use them, "classical" often being a catch all term to cover pretty much anything involving an orchestra or having been written since the renaissance but before the 20th century.

Tom Paris liked Rock and Roll, many characters were fans of swing music as evidenced by Vic Fontaine. We frequently see characters playing guitars and similar stringed instruments throughout TOS. Ensign Melora requested Vulcan music during a shuttle flight which sounded closer to instrumental folk music than anything "classical". Miles O'Brien periodically broke into traditional ditties that would be hard to categorise as "jazz" or "classical" - "The Minstrel Boy" being a notable example

In the old iteration there was no focus on the United Kingdom or much on other countries. The link is because the story of the Commonwealth Monarch is appointed The Lord the popular modern god.

Can't comment here as I seem to have missed that bit of the movies - might have been whilst I was asleep (I'm not a huge fan of Nu Trek)

 

[Unionized Elf]

When is the Wheel Cars seen on Federation?

Aside from Kirk's stepdad's car in Trek XI (which was specifically stated to be an antique) there aren't any wheel cars in these movies. The Harewoods are driving a hover car in STID, which we have seen in the Prime Universe. Well, sort of, the hover car I'm thinking of is from the future in AGT, which originates from the Prime Universe, anyway.

 

[Timo]

Wheeled cars [..] are kind of under represented as the show is set in space, but they are quite clearly evident well into the 24th century.

The big factor no doubt being that a futuristic-looking car is pretty expensive as props go. Most of Trek has struggled with providing simple cardboard boxes of that size, to pose as "shuttlecraft".

McCoy was arrested trying to book an unlicensed flight in a bar - one that was on a starbase no less.

On a starbase? Why would our heroes need the "Old Town transporter station" to get him into space afterwards, then? Or was he first arrested and beamed down to a planetside gaol, then busted out and beamed back up?

One might define the whole of San Francisco as one big starbase. But it suffices for her to be defined as a garrison town; the civilian planetside bars would still be full of people in uniform.

One of the most iconic scenes of TOS is an orion slave girl dancing in what amounts to basically a strip joint with SF officers as paying customers.

Wasn't that supposed to be Pike's private palace and business lounge, from which he sold those slave girls to the customers he entertained?

...jazz and classical are pretty broad terms as we currently use them, "classical" often being a catch all term to cover pretty much anything involving an orchestra or having been written since the renaissance but before the 20th century.

"Classical" (as separate from "Viennese Classical") could also be argued to have referred since the introduction of the concept to anything played in a concert hall (of arbitrary size) to an audience paying for the experience and only for the experience. That sort of perverse use of music was pretty much unheard of before the 19th century, but now has come to be something of a global standard, even after the introduction of recorded music. And that definition would certainly swallow any music that ever strays into concert halls - jazz already being among the victims.

Aside from Kirk's stepdad's car in Trek XI (which was specifically stated to be an antique) there aren't any wheel cars in these movies.

There are individual wheeled vehicles on the background - a compact car at Academy grounds, Sidewinder forklifts at the Academy hangar. Wheels would appear to remain in both entertainment use and serious work, then, even if in insignificantly small roles that can easily be argued to have been "missed" in the other movies and episodes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Does anyone see the rebooted universe as more like ours?

People driver cars, they rider motorbikes, they drink whiskeys and such.

All I'm going to say is that I much prefer the rebooted universe's Earth to Gene Roddenberry's concept of a nudist paradise where children kept pet tigers (which thankfully never made it to screen, although "Haven" is probably it)

 

[Spot261]

On a starbase? Why would our heroes need the "Old Town transporter station" to get him into space afterwards, then? Or was he first arrested and beamed down to a planetside gaol, then busted out and beamed back up?

I always interpreted the scene as happening on board the "mushroom", hadn't really considered he may already be planetside. which possibly works better as you say. My point stands in either case, it was a bar very much in the conventional sense.

Wasn't that supposed to be Pike's private palace and business lounge, from which he sold those slave girls to the customers he entertained?

Yes, but I'm rolling with the idea that such places must exist in some form else he would purely be imagining a historical context. The Talosians constructs seem at least partially to be based on the subjects own mental imagery. Given that fact I'm personally happier with the idea Pike had some experience of places where men are served drinks and entertained by women to draw on for that particular fantasy. It certainly fits given the numerous instances of other such places we see throughout the franchise, clearly indicating they DO in fact exist.

 

[Timo]

Oh, I have no doubt that opulent palaces of slave traders do exist for real in the Trek universe - but I also rather suspect Pike has never seen the inside of one, and is going purely by stereotypes, the same sort that gave rise to the joke Boyce made on the subject when Pike said he considered going into business on Orion.

That is, there's legitimate and respectable business to be had on Orion, by human standards, but the place is also famed for its slave trade. Pike referred to the former, Boyce to the latter. And ever since that moment, Pike did have the fantasy of himself as a slave baron nagging in his subconscious. But real slave barons might not completely subscribe to the stereotype.

Just musing. And certainly bars and bartenders are a fixture of "The Cage" anyway, outright mentioned by Boyce. The only difference in ST:ID is that we finally see a joint where nobody wears a Starfleet uniform, not even our heroes! In all previous drinking establishments, uniformed folks made an appearance eventually. Including the 2009 movie.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unionized Elf]

All I'm going to say is that I much prefer the rebooted universe's Earth to Gene Roddenberry's concept of a nudist paradise where children kept pet tigers

I must respectfully disagree, as the Roddenberry concept included love instructors, brilliant idea that it is.

 

[Tosk]

Miles O'Brien periodically broke into traditional ditties that would be hard to categorise as "jazz" or "classical" - "The Minstrel Boy" being a notable example

He's also fond of the song, "Louie Louie".

 

[Greg Cox]

Oh, I have no doubt that opulent palaces of slave traders do exist for real in the Trek universe - but I also rather suspect Pike has never seen the inside of one, and is going purely by stereotypes, the same sort that gave rise to the joke Boyce made on the subject when Pike said he considered going into business on Orion.

While Boyce fixed Pike a martini . .. in one of the first scenes ever filmed for TREK.

 

[Gepard]

a nudist paradise

I have no problem with this.

where children kept pet tigers

Awesome.

a nudist paradise where children kept pet tigers

Juxtaposed they are a bit concerning.

 

[Nebusj]

Juxtaposed they are a bit concerning.

Well, what are the tigers wearing?

 

[Gepard]

Gold lamè.

 

[Spot261]

Well, what are the tigers wearing?

To their shame they're wearing real tiger skin outfits

 

[Tenacity]

Does anyone see the rebooted universe as more like ours?

One of the boss's personal favorites being promoted over people with more experience and training into a top position?

(Chekov in ST: Darkness)

 

[Unionized Elf]

^^So, you're agreeing the Kelvin timeline is more like the real world?

 

[Tenacity]

Yes, certainly San Francisco appear more "the day after tomorrow" than multiple centuries in the future.