Reasons to be happy / not happy about a 4th film.

[Franklin]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

I am very easy going in that aspect, anything that is canon and not set in some mirror, parallel, alternate universe etc.
Thats ok for an episode or 2 parter but it has been done to death.

There are some here, for the purpose of denying that the differentiation between the Prime and Alternate universe means anything, who will tell you that each and every movie is a reboot in a new universe. It won't be long before each episode in each series will be a new spawn of the multiverse.

Well that's one way of explaining recastings and continuity errors.

And considering the possibility of real multiple universes, somewhere out there:
-- Jeffrey Hunter stayed on, lived a long, full life, and was Christopher Pike in many incarnations of Trek on TV and in movies.
-- TOS wasn't cancelled and went on for several more seasons (how many is specific to the universe being talked about).
-- Phase II happened instead of a feature film, and ran for several seasons (some with Nimoy occasionally guest-staring, some without -- and again, the length of the run depended on the universe).
-- TMP bombed and there were no more movies.
-- TNG et al never happened.
-- TFF is the most acclaimed Trek movie, ever.
-- and so on.

How many Treks there could be in the Trek universe(s), and how many there could be as forms entertainment in real multi-verses boggles the mind.

Better to set back and enjoy what we've got. Thinking too much hurts.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

It seems like there's a group of fandom that has figuratively become the grumpy old man that doesn't want anyone to play with his toys, except for in ways they approve of. I don't want my toys to sit pristine on a shelf, I want them to be played with in unimaginable and spectacular ways.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

It seems like there's a group of fandom that has figuratively become the grumpy old man that doesn't want anyone to play with his toys, except for in ways they approve of. I don't want my toys to sit pristine on a shelf, I want them to be played with in unimaginable and spectacular ways.

My room, from when I was kid, was littered with broken GI Joes, Matt Masons and Gumbies.

 

[thumbtack]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

You have to understand, we've been in the midst of a battle against people who have been constantly spreading misinformation regarding the current state of Trek. These individuals have taken their fanaticism to a whole new level. While logic, facts and the truth are continuously in their face, it seems it's become a game, on their side of the argument anyway, of who can tell the biggest lie.

But, not unexpectedly, it's been good for nuTrek in the end. Paramount has clearly dug in it's heels, and CBS executives continue to say unkind words re the truefans, both in and out of public.

there is virtually zero news about anything big planned for the 50th anniversary

We do have some word of an internal debate at Paramount concerning how much they're going to tie in with the 50th. One camp wants to return to the "Not Your Father's Star Trek" approach with the marketing. Yet, they clearly want it out in 2016 so they must feel there is some benefit to be had. We shall see.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

It seems like there's a group of fandom that has figuratively become the grumpy old man that doesn't want anyone to play with his toys, except for in ways they approve of. I don't want my toys to sit pristine on a shelf, I want them to be played with in unimaginable and spectacular ways.

My room, from when I was kid, was littered with broken GI Joes, Matt Masons and Gumbies.

Major Matt Mason, now there's a blast from the past.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

It seems like there's a group of fandom that has figuratively become the grumpy old man that doesn't want anyone to play with his toys, except for in ways they approve of. I don't want my toys to sit pristine on a shelf, I want them to be played with in unimaginable and spectacular ways.

My room, from when I was kid, was littered with broken GI Joes, Matt Masons and Gumbies.

Major Matt Mason, now there's a blast from the past.

I had a huge Major Matt Mason collection--and the Big Little Book!

And I confess I have been known to choreograph action scenes with whatever action figures are at hand--or anything else within reach.

"In this space battle, the part of the Klingon battle cruiser will be played a nail clipper while the Enterprise is a pencil stub."

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

My favorite was an alien named Callisto.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

My favorite was an alien named Callisto.

Purple head? Antennae? Vaguely insectoid?

Was that him?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

its explains why paramount are demanding simon pegg sort off dumb star trek down

"ST IV: The Voyage Home" was hugely successful with fans and public alike, but still many fans called it "the dumbing down of Star Trek for the masses". Our club gained many new members in 1986, but lots of diehard TOS fans I know walked away from fandom forever.

so instead of dumbing star trek down why not take it to TV.

The last Trek on TV to have more-than-acceptable viewer ratings were seasons Three to Seven of TNG.

By comparison, the combination of seven years of DS9 (in first-run syndication), seven years of VOY (on struggling UPN) and four years of ENT tells CBS TV that a new Trek series is still way too risky.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

My favorite was an alien named Callisto.

Purple head? Antennae? Vaguely insectoid?

Was that him?

I think Callisto had a translucent green head. Captain Laser was one of my favorites in that line of toys.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

My favorite was an alien named Callisto.

Purple head? Antennae? Vaguely insectoid?

Was that him?

I think Callisto had a translucent green head. Captain Laser was one of my favorites in that line of toys.

That's him.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

its explains why paramount are demanding simon pegg sort off dumb star trek down

"ST IV: The Voyage Home" was hugely successful with fans and public alike, but still many fans called it "the dumbing down of Star Trek for the masses". Our club gained many new members in 1986, but lots of diehard TOS fans I know walked away from fandom forever.

so instead of dumbing star trek down why not take it to TV.

The last Trek on TV to have more-than-acceptable viewer ratings were seasons Three to Seven of TNG.

By comparison, the combination of seven years of DS9 (in first-run syndication), seven years of VOY (on struggling UPN) and four years of ENT tells CBS TV that a new Trek series is still way too risky.

For what it's worth, I don't see how they could've called TVH "the dumbing down of Trek," when it was simply an expanded story of the depth of theme and tone of a TOS episode like "A Piece of the Action", "Shore Leave", or "The Trouble with Tribbles". I thought the humor was actually quite sharp and clever without betraying the characters. In line with those three episodes.

I've said before that I think some people (rightfully, I guess) get very upset and turned off when something they have been anticipating for so long turns out to disappoint them (like in this case TVH not being the type of movie they hoped for). To a great extent, I think that's what's happened to those who are so negative about the direction Trek has taken, now.

I can even see the day -- maybe when whatever Trek comes to TV when or if it ever does -- when I may finally realize that Trek isn't for me, any more. I can't see myself railing about it though. Just a sigh. It's hell to fall out of the prime demographic.

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

...the combination of seven years of DS9 (in first-run syndication), seven years of VOY (on struggling UPN) and four years of ENT tells CBS TV that a new Trek series is still way too risky.

I know this seems like common sense to a lot of folks, but because it has such a strong sense of statement of fact, I'd really like to see this supposition sourced from anyone in the know at CBS.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

its explains why paramount are demanding simon pegg sort off dumb star trek down

"ST IV: The Voyage Home" was hugely successful with fans and public alike, but still many fans called it "the dumbing down of Star Trek for the masses". Our club gained many new members in 1986, but lots of diehard TOS fans I know walked away from fandom forever.

so instead of dumbing star trek down why not take it to TV.

The last Trek on TV to have more-than-acceptable viewer ratings were seasons Three to Seven of TNG.

By comparison, the combination of seven years of DS9 (in first-run syndication), seven years of VOY (on struggling UPN) and four years of ENT tells CBS TV that a new Trek series is still way too risky.

Not to mention that it was not so long ago that many fans on these boards were also referring to TV Trek as 'dumbed down.'

It's not an either/or situation. Even if you absolutely hated the new movies and are positive that you'll hate the next one, its still just as likely that you'd hate a new show. TV and film are just the respective mediums, not the message.

Plus, remember when the common perception was that TV is a diversion and film was art? Mainly because for every 'Threads', TV had five different versions of 'Perfect Match'? Or because (in the words of Stephen King) the nature of a TV series inevitably meant that even a decent TV product (like 'The Night Stalker') ended up diluted and stretched beyond its means? (into the campy nuttiness of 'Kolchak: The Night Stalker'.)

My, how times change.

 

[M-Red]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

And to get back to the point of this thread --even if ever so briefly....


For some time now I've noticed that one aspect of being a Star Trek fan is, in some ways, dealing with Star Wars.


Star Wars is what it is -- a leviathan. Nevermind that though.


What's interesting to me is that Star Trek and Star Wars actually feed off of one another's success. Sure, there is the nerdy rivalry (and the not-so nerdy rivalry too...) but from a creation and production perspective, go back and look at the history of the two franchises. They push each other. They're always looking over each other's shoulder at the other one.


Is Star Trek going to make as much money as Star Wars? No.


But you can be damn sure that inside the Star Wars camp, it really bothered them how successful and popular Star Trek '09 was after the sour note of the Prequels. Star Trek TMP wouldn't have been made without Star Wars ANH. Star Trek carried space adventure and sci-fi from the mid-80s into the late-90s while Star Wars was reduced to comic books and novels. After the massively successful TNG series and a popular Borg movie, the Star Wars prequels began in earnest. And then it changed again.


Star Wars is a mammoth. But Trek can hold its own, as it's shown time and again. The success of the new Star Wars Sequel Trilogy shouldn't hurt Star Trek.


On the contrary, Pine and Quinto just signed on for a fourth Star Trek film....a year before the third one has even been released.


If anything, these two franchises will both stay healthy and continue to push one another. But Star Trek should never be intimidated by Star Wars. Just make great Star Trek and do it in a way that stresses Trek's strength's and values. And Trek will be fine.

 

[Timewalker]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

On the contrary, Pine and Quinto just signed on for a fourth Star Trek film....a year before the third one has even been released.

Just because they signed doesn't mean the movie will be made. There were plans to make sequels to the David Lynch Dune movie, and Kyle MacLaughlin was signed to play Paul. But neither sequel was ever made (for entirely understandable reasons).

 

[M-Red]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

The new Star Trek film franchise isn't a David Lynch Dune movie.


Star Trek Beyond will be produced and marketed in such a way that it will be very profitable for TPTB. And there will be a fourth nuTrek film.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Financially, I think a blockbuster every few years is much more viable than an ongoing TV series. Star Trek is expensive to produce, and I think the market for a TV series is not big enough to justify the expenditure.

As a new Trek TV series is unlikely, I am hoping that the movie series will be ongoing, with new characters and aspects developed to expand and sustain the universe. A movie series actually permits a lot more variety than a TV series. Maybe they'll eventually produce a Klingon movie or a Romulan movie (with characters from the main series serving as a gateway).

I am not worried about Star Trek movies being somehow drowned out by competitors. It's a name brand with fairly positive associations, so as long as the movies are engaging and satisfying they will succeed. I think Abrams' association with Star Wars has had only positive effects on Trek's reputation with non-fans; Abrams is a reason for Wars fans to take Trek more seriously.

It's "Sunk Costs" thinking at work. If the first film flops, the thinking is "cut your loses and get out now". If the second film is perceived as an underperformer, the thinking becomes "well, we've come this far...make #3 and at least get the marketing boost for having a trilogy."

So they spend $180 mil, plus many mil more on marketing, on a movie you think will be a flop, in order to pad the DVD set? Unlikely.

It wasn't a complete failure, it just underperformed (obviously it didn't outright flop). This made the suits concerned, and whatever they saw about what Orci had in mind for 3 made their concerns worse, so they yanked him and his script and started over with the clock ticking for a firm release date. You don't do that if you are confident in your franchise.

The fact that they went to a new writer shows they did have confidence in Trek, just not in Orci.

50 year anniversary is a Big Deal. And we have NOTHING special planned for it. That is not an indication of confidence in Trek by the rights holders. It just isn't.

I don't understand this entitled attitude that demands "something special" for the anniversary. There is ALWAYS something coming out for Trek: new novels, new comics, new models, etc, etc. And I'd much rather have a new movie than a TV special which would simply be a repetition of something we've already seen dozens of times on the DVD releases.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

And Sam Jackson signed up for 9 Marvel movies, all of which were made and reaped a ridiculous amount of money. The only thing the contracts prove is the studios think they have a potential successful product on their hands, and they might need the actors later.

I do actually understand the thinking behind 'Dune will be a big franchise.' If you spread out the components, it should have been too big to fail. Successful respected director, successful respected actors, successful respected book series. Throw in a big budget and 80's sci fi being vogue, and it looks like a printing press for greenbacks.

Except the director was Lynch, and the source material was Dune...

 

[eyeresist]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

For the record, I never questioned whether someone was a fan or not.

Then you are obviously not a "fan".