Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
S'ok man, I'm celebrating enough for the both of us
S'ok man, I'm celebrating enough for the both of us
Reasons to be happy / not happy about a 4th film.
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Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
It might help us to understand you if you cited a few specific examples such as themes, story, acting, production, etc of how the movies failed you and how they could have done better, perhaps in comparison with something you feel was done well - a critical/comparative analysis.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
As I pointed out earlier, the last 2 movies while very well produced in their own right, are not my idea of trek.
I think with movies in general more effort goes into actions and explosions and other such shit rather than plot, substance etc which is always better in a tv series seeing as they have more time to expand on things.
And while this applies to all movies the abrams movies are even worse in my opinion.This alternate scenario sucks for starters, never liked that concept of ripping of the older series, it might have worked for one movie but seeing as there is going to be a lot more now it showed little foresight.
As for some of the things in recent movies like an english khan who is as white as my irish arse, was laughable.
Again this alternate is a handy ploy for abrams, cos anything that is ridiculous he can explained away as "its the alternate", its like a get out of jail free card for bad decisions.
My own personal opinion is a 4th movie will not help with a new tv series. I would obviously love to be proved wrong and as it is we all can speculate as to if we will ever see one or if these movies have any bearing.
Guess time will tell
As I pointed out earlier, the last 2 movies while very well produced in their own right, are not my idea of trek.
I think with movies in general more effort goes into actions and explosions and other such shit rather than plot, substance etc which is always better in a tv series seeing as they have more time to expand on things.
And while this applies to all movies the abrams movies are even worse in my opinion.This alternate scenario sucks for starters, never liked that concept of ripping of the older series, it might have worked for one movie but seeing as there is going to be a lot more now it showed little foresight.
As for some of the things in recent movies like an english khan who is as white as my irish arse, was laughable.
Again this alternate is a handy ploy for abrams, cos anything that is ridiculous he can explained away as "its the alternate", its like a get out of jail free card for bad decisions.
My own personal opinion is a 4th movie will not help with a new tv series. I would obviously love to be proved wrong and as it is we all can speculate as to if we will ever see one or if these movies have any bearing.
Guess time will tell
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
It is hard to like a film when you don't buy in to the premise. I can understand that. (I felt the same way about Fight Club, as a quick example).
So, what do you want in Star Trek, perhaps out of a new TV series?
It is hard to like a film when you don't buy in to the premise. I can understand that. (I felt the same way about Fight Club, as a quick example).
So, what do you want in Star Trek, perhaps out of a new TV series?
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
I don't see how the massive popularity of the new Star Wars films (with the original cast) has anything to do with Star Trek's popularity in any way...Darwinism exists in the film world as well. If Star Trek can't find an audience (there is no reason to believe this is true as the last (very mediocre) film nearly made $500 million worldwide) then it won't exist after the next film.
That said, the series has a huge fanbase that well certainly not on the level of Star Wars (what is?) can hold it's own as the last two films have proved. I'm sure the marketing team behind the new film will position it so it to maximize it's commercial appeal.
Beyond that, despite the gloom and doom of the anti Abramsverse fans, the films series is trending up at the global box office...ST is far more established in the United States than around the world. That audience will always come out as long as the film isn't a total wreck (Nemesis, Insurrection) the key to Star Trek's commercial success going forward lies overseas and that is also trending upwards. Into Darkness did much better than ST 09 in the foreign market...Look at the numbers.
Star Trek 09
Domestic $257,730m
Foreign $127,950m
$385,950
66.8% of it's overall business was domestic, while only 33.2% was foreign.
Star Trek Into Darkness
Domestic $228,778
Foreign $238,602
$467,301
48.9% of it's business was domestic, while 51.1% (a huge increase) was foreign
While you and many hardcore/old school fans may not enjoy the new films, the general audience seems to enjoy them far more than the last several Star Trek films that were nowhere near as commercially successful as Abrams version of ST.
As for Star Trek coming back to tv, I wouldn't count on in anytime soon. While I agree that in many ways the series is best served on tv, the rights to the franchise are a mess.
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/37603/-star-trek-on-tv-prevented-by-rights-mess
I don't see how the massive popularity of the new Star Wars films (with the original cast) has anything to do with Star Trek's popularity in any way...Darwinism exists in the film world as well. If Star Trek can't find an audience (there is no reason to believe this is true as the last (very mediocre) film nearly made $500 million worldwide) then it won't exist after the next film.
That said, the series has a huge fanbase that well certainly not on the level of Star Wars (what is?) can hold it's own as the last two films have proved. I'm sure the marketing team behind the new film will position it so it to maximize it's commercial appeal.
Beyond that, despite the gloom and doom of the anti Abramsverse fans, the films series is trending up at the global box office...ST is far more established in the United States than around the world. That audience will always come out as long as the film isn't a total wreck (Nemesis, Insurrection) the key to Star Trek's commercial success going forward lies overseas and that is also trending upwards. Into Darkness did much better than ST 09 in the foreign market...Look at the numbers.
Star Trek 09
Domestic $257,730m
Foreign $127,950m
$385,950
66.8% of it's overall business was domestic, while only 33.2% was foreign.
Star Trek Into Darkness
Domestic $228,778
Foreign $238,602
$467,301
48.9% of it's business was domestic, while 51.1% (a huge increase) was foreign
While you and many hardcore/old school fans may not enjoy the new films, the general audience seems to enjoy them far more than the last several Star Trek films that were nowhere near as commercially successful as Abrams version of ST.
As for Star Trek coming back to tv, I wouldn't count on in anytime soon. While I agree that in many ways the series is best served on tv, the rights to the franchise are a mess.
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/37603/-star-trek-on-tv-prevented-by-rights-mess
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
I am very easy going in that aspect, anything that is canon and not set in some mirror, parallel, alternate universe etc.
Thats ok for an episode or 2 parter but it has been done to death.
My ultimate would be a show based around 20 years after the dominion war, and the return of voyager, how cardassia and klingons got on, the crews of voyager and ds9 could be up for cameos.
In fact I just take any tv series once it is done decent, and in the vein of what the other shows were
I was born in 69 and never cared for the original as a kid, was not til I was in my late teen and on crutches for 6 months that I discovered TNG, and loved it, liked what I saw of Voyager and was blown away by DS9, still my favorite all time show
Over the years I ended up watching voyager and enterprise and the rest in the entirety start to finish and despite so many people slating voyager and enterprise I quite enjoyed them.
I wanted to enjoy the abrams movies, seriously, but I simply found myself at the point where even trek fans had to step back and say this is taking the piss.
I am very easy going in that aspect, anything that is canon and not set in some mirror, parallel, alternate universe etc.
Thats ok for an episode or 2 parter but it has been done to death.
My ultimate would be a show based around 20 years after the dominion war, and the return of voyager, how cardassia and klingons got on, the crews of voyager and ds9 could be up for cameos.
In fact I just take any tv series once it is done decent, and in the vein of what the other shows were
I was born in 69 and never cared for the original as a kid, was not til I was in my late teen and on crutches for 6 months that I discovered TNG, and loved it, liked what I saw of Voyager and was blown away by DS9, still my favorite all time show
Over the years I ended up watching voyager and enterprise and the rest in the entirety start to finish and despite so many people slating voyager and enterprise I quite enjoyed them.
I wanted to enjoy the abrams movies, seriously, but I simply found myself at the point where even trek fans had to step back and say this is taking the piss.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
Well, I understood every part of that, except the last statement.
Other than that, I have enjoyed TOS as long as I can remember, though I can understand why others enjoy different incarnations.
I think I'm ok with alternate realities, but that's because between Stargate and other scifi shows I enjoy it has become a science fiction staple. I agree that it has been overdone, but it wasn't so unusual to be enjoyable for me.
It's funny, because when I first read the promo material announcing the Abrams films and casting, I didn't like it at all. I thought Pegg was a poor choice, and Qunito as Spock seemed a reach for me. But, it grew on me, and the films had characters that I really identified with, so it worked for me.
But, I know it isn't for everyone.
Well, I understood every part of that, except the last statement.
Other than that, I have enjoyed TOS as long as I can remember, though I can understand why others enjoy different incarnations.
I think I'm ok with alternate realities, but that's because between Stargate and other scifi shows I enjoy it has become a science fiction staple. I agree that it has been overdone, but it wasn't so unusual to be enjoyable for me.
It's funny, because when I first read the promo material announcing the Abrams films and casting, I didn't like it at all. I thought Pegg was a poor choice, and Qunito as Spock seemed a reach for me. But, it grew on me, and the films had characters that I really identified with, so it worked for me.
But, I know it isn't for everyone.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
I can understand that.
Up to a few years back I had only seen the odd episodes or voyager and enterprise in random order.
forums like here were often critical of voyager and enterprise, so i kind of had lower expections as a whole although I had enjoyed the episodes I saw.
I think going into something and expecting it to be bad actually helped cos when I watched them in full , start to finish I felt the shows were a lot better than the criticism aimed at them, yes there were some flaws but overall well worth the time and effort and entertaining.
I had hoped something similar would happen with the movies, yes the effects were great, the new gadgets, the new aliens ,uniforms etc but I always felt it was all show and little substance, like some god awful bad trek episode extended to twice the length and released in a cinema storywise
I can understand that.
Up to a few years back I had only seen the odd episodes or voyager and enterprise in random order.
forums like here were often critical of voyager and enterprise, so i kind of had lower expections as a whole although I had enjoyed the episodes I saw.
I think going into something and expecting it to be bad actually helped cos when I watched them in full , start to finish I felt the shows were a lot better than the criticism aimed at them, yes there were some flaws but overall well worth the time and effort and entertaining.
I had hoped something similar would happen with the movies, yes the effects were great, the new gadgets, the new aliens ,uniforms etc but I always felt it was all show and little substance, like some god awful bad trek episode extended to twice the length and released in a cinema storywise
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
Enterprise is hit and miss for me, but I like the overall aesthetic. Voyager was something I tried to get in to, because it was the first Star Trek I was really old enough to be aware of at the beginning of its run.
The new films fascinate me from a character level, especially Kirk and Spock. But, that doesn't mean that I love every aspect of the films. The pacing is irritatingly fast, and there are some details that really were unnecessary.
But, for me, the good outweighs the bad, mostly because I don't see the new movies doing anything differently than other Treks have done in the past, except bigger, faster and louder.
Enterprise is hit and miss for me, but I like the overall aesthetic. Voyager was something I tried to get in to, because it was the first Star Trek I was really old enough to be aware of at the beginning of its run.
The new films fascinate me from a character level, especially Kirk and Spock. But, that doesn't mean that I love every aspect of the films. The pacing is irritatingly fast, and there are some details that really were unnecessary.
But, for me, the good outweighs the bad, mostly because I don't see the new movies doing anything differently than other Treks have done in the past, except bigger, faster and louder.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
The alternate universe thing doesn't bother me, mostly because I realize that it's just a reboot with a time-travel fig leaf and I'm used to reboots.
Heck, I grew up on DC Comics where multiple universes and continuities are pretty much par for the course. ("Crisis on Earth-X!") I've understood that different Earths have different continuities since I was eight, probably. Never interfered with my ability to enjoy a good BATMAN story.
Beyond that, I'm old enough to have seen most of my old favorites rebooted multiple times: Tarzan, Zorro, Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, Superman, Planet of the Apes, you name it.
A new take on Kirk and Spock doesn't faze me.
The alternate universe thing doesn't bother me, mostly because I realize that it's just a reboot with a time-travel fig leaf and I'm used to reboots.
Heck, I grew up on DC Comics where multiple universes and continuities are pretty much par for the course. ("Crisis on Earth-X!") I've understood that different Earths have different continuities since I was eight, probably. Never interfered with my ability to enjoy a good BATMAN story.
Beyond that, I'm old enough to have seen most of my old favorites rebooted multiple times: Tarzan, Zorro, Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, Superman, Planet of the Apes, you name it.
A new take on Kirk and Spock doesn't faze me.
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Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
What did you all expect? That these 'fans' would be pleased that Star Trek's back? Most of them have impossible demands as to who should be making these movies, and also want the original cast to be coming back to do the movies as well.
None of these fans realize that things have changed, and that one can't do
Star Trek as it used to be back in 1966-1969, or as it was from 1987-2001 in the various spin-off series; they all think that TV and movies are like it was way back when.
I wish that these fans would just stick to watching the older movies and TV shows, or watching the various fan productions; those things are right up their alley, especially the fan productions which would fix their craving for new Star Trek. But, lemming-like, they have to watch the new movies and bitch about them.
Definitely pathetic. But I have to admit that I found the whole "JJ embezzled money from Star Trek Into Darkness" story highly entertaining! People are going to have a hard time topping that one.
What did you all expect? That these 'fans' would be pleased that Star Trek's back? Most of them have impossible demands as to who should be making these movies, and also want the original cast to be coming back to do the movies as well.
None of these fans realize that things have changed, and that one can't doStar Trek as it used to be back in 1966-1969, or as it was from 1987-2001 in the various spin-off series; they all think that TV and movies are like it was way back when.
I wish that these fans would just stick to watching the older movies and TV shows, or watching the various fan productions; those things are right up their alley, especially the fan productions which would fix their craving for new Star Trek. But, lemming-like, they have to watch the new movies and bitch about them.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
Even if they did (stop me if you've heard this before) the attribution of "lemming-like" qualities to particular groups of fans is a thing better avoided.
Don't be ridiculous - lemmings don't watch Star Trek.
Even if they did (stop me if you've heard this before) the attribution of "lemming-like" qualities to particular groups of fans is a thing better avoided.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
Y'know, I don't put the word 'fans' in quotes when mentioning them as Star Trek fans. It's really rude to say "fans" like the only real ST fans are people who like nuTrek, and then tar all of us with the brush of expecting any new movies to have the original cast. Certainly there are people who would love it if William Shatner had a small role in the new movie - out of respect for the actor most associated with Star Trek, and as an acknowledgment that Star Trek actually started in 1966, and not 1987 or 2009. But not ALL TOS fans feel that way, and it's wrong to insist on that.What did you all expect? That these 'fans' would be pleased that Star Trek's back? Most of them have impossible demands as to who should be making these movies, and also want the original cast to be coming back to do the movies as well.
Star Trek as it used to be back in 1966-1969, or as it was from 1987-2001 in the various spin-off series; they all think that TV and movies are like it was way back when.
I wish that these fans would just stick to watching the older movies and TV shows, or watching the various fan productions; those things are right up their alley, especially the fan productions which would fix their craving for new Star Trek. But, lemming-like, they have to watch the new movies and bitch about them.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
For the record, I never questioned whether someone was a fan or not.
For the record, I never questioned whether someone was a fan or not.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
What exactly was Leonard Nimoy doing in the 2009 film?
What exactly was Leonard Nimoy doing in the 2009 film?
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
There are some here, for the purpose of denying that the differentiation between the Prime and Alternate universe means anything, who will tell you that each and every movie is a reboot in a new universe. It won't be long before each episode in each series will be a new spawn of the multiverse.
Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.
Well that's one way of explaining recastings and continuity errors.
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