Reasons to be happy / not happy about a 4th film.

[BillJ]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Not sure I've ever understood what was cynical about the new films.

That's understandable if you believe STID was a positive movie. Others believe it is cynical because the story mirrors the truther perspective of corruption from within, contray to Roddenberry's philosophy about the show. You can deny that's what the movie was about, but you can't deny that the belief exists. Understanding can come from that.

Do people not actually watch Star Trek?!?

Story after story exists about corruption from within in the Star Trek universe, from episodes to movies to novels. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to some people who can't have ever actually watched Star Trek.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Not sure I've ever understood what was cynical about the new films.

That's understandable if you believe STID was a positive movie. Others believe it is cynical because the story mirrors the truther perspective of corruption from within, contray to Roddenberry's philosophy about the show. You can deny that's what the movie was about, but you can't deny that the belief exists. Understanding can come from that.

What "Roddenberry philosophy" is that? That the UFP/Starfeet is incorruptible? The number of corrupted officers and officials in Starfleet and the UFP seen in previous Star Treks puts that idea to rest.

Corruption from within is hardly a new trope in fiction or in Star Trek. While Star Trek is a positive, optimistic future it's not a perfect Pollyanna future. Even our heroes can make mistakes and learn from them. There is more drama and humanity in that than perfect heroes looking down their noses and tisk tisking at the primitives.

Nicely put.

Lord knows TOS had its cynical moments. Pretty much every time we were introduced to some Great Man acclaimed by the Federation or a respected Starfleet captain who wasn't Kirk, they turned out to be insane, corrupt, or replaced by a robot . . ..

 

[Phantom]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Paramount believes that Star Trek Beyond has the potential for being a watershed in the Trek movies. That is why they have granted an option for a fourth sequel.

We can only wait and see...nothing I've seen or heard says that we're about to have such a moment (at least not in a positive way). Remember, Paramount wasn't happy with the returns on Into Darkness. And JJ had to fight just to get it made to begin with.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

"The Omega Glory" is a Roddenberry story.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Paramount believes that Star Trek Beyond has the potential for being a watershed in the Trek movies. That is why they have granted an option for a fourth sequel.

We can only wait and see...nothing I've seen or heard says that we're about to have such a moment (at least not in a positive way). Remember, Paramount wasn't happy with the returns on Into Darkness. And JJ had to fight just to get it made to begin with.

I still don't think Paramount was as unhappy as the interwebs portray them. Why would they hire Orci to write and direct early in the process if they were unhappy? Why would they give Pine and Quinto raises for the upcoming film if they were unhappy? Why would they be spending another $180 million on Trek produced by the same people if they were unhappy?

Just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Paramount believes that Star Trek Beyond has the potential for being a watershed in the Trek movies. That is why they have granted an option for a fourth sequel.

We can only wait and see...nothing I've seen or heard says that we're about to have such a moment (at least not in a positive way). Remember, Paramount wasn't happy with the returns on Into Darkness. And JJ had to fight just to get it made to begin with.

Did he?

 

[mos6507]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Nobody really knows what Pegg's script (ok, incomplete script) is like. People have read into his statements the way they read inkblots.

With JJ pretty much out of the picture, it sounds to me like Pegg/Lin's vision of Trek is kind of a retooling of the franchise, and it may be fresh enough and with enough legs to float two or more films before it gets stale. Considering that the Enterprise didn't really shove off to its 5 year mission across two films, there's a lot of uncharted territory still.

So we'll see.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Remember, Paramount wasn't happy with the returns on Into Darkness.

Yeah, they were so unhappy with the film that grossed eight figures more than its predecessor that they're making a sequel and have already signed the leads up for a movie after that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Nobody really knows what Pegg's script (ok, incomplete script) is like. People have read into his statements the way they read inkblots.

With JJ pretty much out of the picture, it sounds to me like Pegg/Lin's vision of Trek is kind of a retooling of the franchise, and it may be fresh enough and with enough legs to float two or more films before it gets stale. Considering that the Enterprise didn't really shove off to its 5 year mission across two films, there's a lot of uncharted territory still.

So we'll see.

Is Pegg updating you daily on the script?

 

[ComicGuy89]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Not sure I've ever understood what was cynical about the new films.

That's understandable if you believe STID was a positive movie. Others believe it is cynical because the story mirrors the truther perspective of corruption from within, contray to Roddenberry's philosophy about the show. You can deny that's what the movie was about, but you can't deny that the belief exists. Understanding can come from that.

Do people not actually watch Star Trek?!?

Story after story exists about corruption from within in the Star Trek universe, from episodes to movies to novels. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to some people who can't have ever actually watched Star Trek.

At least two Star Trek movies feature corrupt admirals. Not sure if I should spoil them here. But I have also heard it be argued that Into Darkness represents a corruption on a "larger" scale, rather than a few individuals.

Still, TOS itself is already rife with dangerous, damaged, or corrupt authority figures.

 

[gazomg]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Paramount believes that Star Trek Beyond has the potential for being a watershed in the Trek movies. That is why they have granted an option for a fourth sequel.

We can only wait and see...nothing I've seen or heard says that we're about to have such a moment (at least not in a positive way). Remember, Paramount wasn't happy with the returns on Into Darkness. And JJ had to fight just to get it made to begin with.

I still don't think Paramount was as unhappy as the interwebs portray them. Why would they hire Orci to write and direct early in the process if they were unhappy? Why would they give Pine and Quinto raises for the upcoming film if they were unhappy? Why would they be spending another $180 million on Trek produced by the same people if they were unhappy?

Just doesn't make any sense.

You seem to take any criticism very deeply.

Paramount knows a good thing when they see it, afterall regardless of how shit the movie will be trek fans will always watch it, therefore paramount has a huge audience before they start.

Maybe these new films might captivate some new younger fans, maybe the demand will grow, but they could always flop in that they might not do as good as expected...even with the fan base.

I have zero interest in the next movie let alone the 4th and might download them in time for free, but other than that I would prefer a tv series

 

[fireproof78]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Paramount believes that Star Trek Beyond has the potential for being a watershed in the Trek movies. That is why they have granted an option for a fourth sequel.

We can only wait and see...nothing I've seen or heard says that we're about to have such a moment (at least not in a positive way). Remember, Paramount wasn't happy with the returns on Into Darkness. And JJ had to fight just to get it made to begin with.

Paramount just wanted to make more money. Very little that I have read with any reliability (including industry professionals) indicates that Paramount was disappointed with ID beyond the usual business wish to make more money.

Very few business walk in to a venture and hope they make less money.

ID made enough to get a sequel greenlit and in preproduction sooner than ID was produced after 09.

We can only wait and see...nothing I've seen or heard says that we're about to have such a moment (at least not in a positive way). Remember, Paramount wasn't happy with the returns on Into Darkness. And JJ had to fight just to get it made to begin with.

I still don't think Paramount was as unhappy as the interwebs portray them. Why would they hire Orci to write and direct early in the process if they were unhappy? Why would they give Pine and Quinto raises for the upcoming film if they were unhappy? Why would they be spending another $180 million on Trek produced by the same people if they were unhappy?

Just doesn't make any sense.

You seem to take any criticism very deeply.

Paramount knows a good thing when they see it, afterall regardless of how shit the movie will be trek fans will always watch it, therefore paramount has a huge audience before they start.

Maybe these new films might captivate some new younger fans, maybe the demand will grow, but they could always flop in that they might not do as good as expected...even with the fan base.

I have zero interest in the next movie let alone the 4th and might download them in time for free, but other than that I would prefer a tv series

A couple of questions pop to my mind that make me curious:

First of all, why just younger fans?

Secondly, why is pirating the film an answer if you have no interest in it? Why take money from Paramount that way?

Finally, and I can't remember where it was pointed out, but if the movie fails, CBS might opt out of the TV series since the films did not succeed.

There's a saying that I used to use when I coached tennis: "If I win we win. If we win, I win." The concept that Abrams films need to fail in order for a TV series to get made may backfire because CBS might see no reason to risk money on a probably failure.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

You seem to take any criticism very deeply.

Not at all. But the spreading of inaccurate information irks me. Besides, we are here to discuss Star Trek.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

That's understandable if you believe STID was a positive movie. Others believe it is cynical because the story mirrors the truther perspective of corruption from within, contray to Roddenberry's philosophy about the show. You can deny that's what the movie was about, but you can't deny that the belief exists. Understanding can come from that.

Do people not actually watch Star Trek?!?

Story after story exists about corruption from within in the Star Trek universe, from episodes to movies to novels. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to some people who can't have ever actually watched Star Trek.

At least two Star Trek movies feature corrupt admirals. Not sure if I should spoil them here. But I have also heard it be argued that Into Darkness represents a corruption on a "larger" scale, rather than a few individuals.

Still, TOS itself is already rife with dangerous, damaged, or corrupt authority figures.

Hello, Doctors Adams, Daystrom, and Korby. Hello, Tracey, Finney, Marvick, etc. Heck, one of the original designers of the Enterprise turned out to be a lovesick murderer . ...

Star Trek has never been all sunshine and flowers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

You seem to take any criticism very deeply.

Not at all. But the spreading of inaccurate information irks me. Besides, we are here to discuss Star Trek.

and chew bubble gum...

 

[Campe]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

And apparently we're all out of bubble gum, so...

You have to understand, we've been in the midst of a battle against people who have been constantly spreading misinformation regarding the current state of Trek. These individuals have taken their fanaticism to a whole new level. While logic, facts and the truth are continuously in their face, it seems it's become a game, on their side of the argument anyway, of who can tell the biggest lie. It's gotten a little out of hand.

 

[gazomg]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Paramount believes that Star Trek Beyond has the potential for being a watershed in the Trek movies. That is why they have granted an option for a fourth sequel.

We can only wait and see...nothing I've seen or heard says that we're about to have such a moment (at least not in a positive way). Remember, Paramount wasn't happy with the returns on Into Darkness. And JJ had to fight just to get it made to begin with.

Paramount just wanted to make more money. Very little that I have read with any reliability (including industry professionals) indicates that Paramount was disappointed with ID beyond the usual business wish to make more money.

Very few business walk in to a venture and hope they make less money.

ID made enough to get a sequel greenlit and in preproduction sooner than ID was produced after 09.

I still don't think Paramount was as unhappy as the interwebs portray them. Why would they hire Orci to write and direct early in the process if they were unhappy? Why would they give Pine and Quinto raises for the upcoming film if they were unhappy? Why would they be spending another $180 million on Trek produced by the same people if they were unhappy?

Just doesn't make any sense.

You seem to take any criticism very deeply.

Paramount knows a good thing when they see it, afterall regardless of how shit the movie will be trek fans will always watch it, therefore paramount has a huge audience before they start.

Maybe these new films might captivate some new younger fans, maybe the demand will grow, but they could always flop in that they might not do as good as expected...even with the fan base.

I have zero interest in the next movie let alone the 4th and might download them in time for free, but other than that I would prefer a tv series

A couple of questions pop to my mind that make me curious:

First of all, why just younger fans?

Secondly, why is pirating the film an answer if you have no interest in it? Why take money from Paramount that way?

Finally, and I can't remember where it was pointed out, but if the movie fails, CBS might opt out of the TV series since the films did not succeed.

There's a saying that I used to use when I coached tennis: "If I win we win. If we win, I win." The concept that Abrams films need to fail in order for a TV series to get made may backfire because CBS might see no reason to risk money on a probably failure.

younger fans is where the market is, its hardly breaking news that its younger people that needs to get on board to keep trek alive as such.
Younger people tend to purchses the dvds as well in comparison to us old farts.
and with any franchise you always aim to get and keep new fans.

As for downloading free, thats simple, I have not enough interest or desire in those movies, however if I came across it I would be tempted to download it like I did the last 2, and I was glad I did not pay for them.

and lastly I dont think the abrams movies will fail, in fact his type of shit is what the younger people go for these days, all action and little substance.
I would prefer a tv series over a movie, regardless of how the movie does.

And as for all this paranoia some have about embezzling, star wars etc..that others have alluded to on this thread....I dont know anything about all this, I just give my opinion on the actual movie and all that other stuff is irrelevant to me.

 

[M'Sharak]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Paramount believes that Star Trek Beyond has the potential for being a watershed in the Trek movies. That is why they have granted an option for a fourth sequel.

We can only wait and see...nothing I've seen or heard says that we're about to have such a moment (at least not in a positive way). Remember, Paramount wasn't happy with the returns on Into Darkness.

Well, people with no connection whatsoever to Paramount keep saying that's the case, but I've yet to see any reliable evidence of it.

And JJ had to fight just to get it made to begin with.

Did he? First I've heard of that. Have you a link?

...

I still don't think Paramount was as unhappy as the interwebs portray them. Why would they hire Orci to write and direct early in the process if they were unhappy? Why would they give Pine and Quinto raises for the upcoming film if they were unhappy? Why would they be spending another $180 million on Trek produced by the same people if they were unhappy?

Just doesn't make any sense.

You seem to take any criticism very deeply.

...

That was hardly necessary. Surely you could have responded to the substance of what he said without making it personal?

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.

Agreed.

You're taking this stuff way too seriously.

 

[gazomg]

Re: Reason why I am not happy for a 4th film.