The ship would be approaching a half-mile long at that point. The modest interior sets don't seem to support that.
I think the 947-foot size was just a little too small, not way too small. I wonder how the figure was arrived at.
Realistic vs Luxury Crew Quarters
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
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I think the 947-foot size was just a little too small, not way too small. I wonder how the figure was arrived at.
Modest? The rooms and corridors are taller than any subsequent incarnation (TMP Engine Room not withstanding) and the curved corridor was set on a radius wider than anything which came after (TMP included). The crew cabins may not have been the suite of rooms which Picard got to live in, but if every person was supposed to get the same sized quarters on TOS then a half mile saucer would have been the way to do it!
However, I agree that this would have been too large
I can't believe this even needs to be said, but here is exactly what this indicates... the show's producers and writers (including Roddenberry) had no clue as to scale. The only person that had any idea (and the only person who really cared) was Jefferies. People turned to him for technical details, but that doesn't mean that they understood/comprehended what he told them. Nor did anyone think getting any of it wrong mattered, it was just a TV show.
Roddenberry didn't understand the scale of the Enterprise. Heck, if I hadn't grown up in Coronado (around the aircraft carriers Constellation, Kitty Hawk, Independence and every so often Enterprise) I wouldn't have had a good feel for the size either.
Honestly, you guys sometimes need to keep in mind that most of these people just wanted to make a TV show. Only a few of them really cared about this stuff and even fewer comprehended what they were trying to put on screen. So it is (under those conditions) amazing that this show didn't turn out like an Irwin Allen production.
On the topic of crew quarters, a good percentage of the crew were mission specialist, and many of them could actually work from their quarters if needed. Most of the open spaces on board could be converted to serve mission needs, but some teams didn't need dedicated space most of the time. Part of the reason for the XO being the science officer is that the XO is in charge of ship's resources and needed to be able to work closely with the mission specialists on this type of exploratory mission.
For example, people like Lt McGivers or Lt Palamas (both mission specialists) would most likely have worked mainly from their quarters. Kirk conducted much of his work from his quarters, and the same was most likely true of Yeoman Rand. Scotty both worked from his quarters and an office near engineering.
J.J. Abrams: Relax guys, I've got this
Nonsense. If the Jupiter 2 could fit three and even four stories inside the exterior hull shown (remember that time Will climbed down into the reactor core?), then the Enterprise can use Gallifreyan pan-dimensional engineering to put 97 stories into the saucer for Spock to use his rocket boots in.
Well I certainly won't contest that. The result are his statements like this :
And that is from the 3rd edition of the Writer's Guide! Clearly someone liked the sound of that statement so much that it was retained even after MJ's purported length of 947' had been around for a while and in fact the sentence immediately prior to the one above mentions a mere 11 decks in the saucer.
FWIW, I doubt even a half mile long Enterprise could house the aforementioned "fleet" of jet liners. But as Shaw has expounded, GR was not concerned with such details - he had a show to produce.
Sounds feasible to me, thanks!
J.J. Abrams: Relax guys, I've got this
It is kind of funny how how it seems Roddenberry's original scaling for the Enterprise seemed to put the ship closer to the JJprise size.
I wouldn't call Kirk's quarters "luxurious." It was basically one room with a half divider.
Pike's quarters in The Cage was a much larger space, with room for a big color console TV. Probably an RCA.
Pike's quarters in The Cage was a much larger space, with room for a big color console TV. Probably an RCA.
...We're left wondering whether it was his quarters at all, or rather some VIP lounge adjoining the guest quarters (which according to "The Enterprise Incident" are there right next to the bridge, on Deck 2) that Pike shamelessly exploited since there were no VIPs aboard.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
...We're left wondering whether it was his quarters at all, or rather some VIP lounge adjoining the guest quarters (which according to "The Enterprise Incident" are there right next to the bridge, on Deck 2) that Pike shamelessly exploited since there were no VIPs aboard.
The captain's quarters should always have been adjacent to the bridge, along with a small conference room and a lounge, but the Enterprise miniature didn't allow for it.
You have to wonder what they were thinking in "The Enterprise Incident" when Nimoy says Deck 2 and the trip takes the height and length of four starships. Did they think Deck 1 was at the bottom? It's almost as big a gaff as Shatner's 78-deck shaft in ST5, which I suspect represented the number of TV episodes ("stories") Kirk was in, if you count "The Menagerie" frame as one (S1E16).
...We're left wondering whether it was his quarters at all, or rather some VIP lounge adjoining the guest quarters (which according to "The Enterprise Incident" are there right next to the bridge, on Deck 2) that Pike shamelessly exploited since there were no VIPs aboard.
...We are? Why would we assume that? Just because the Captain's quarters don't look the same as they did on the series? LOTS of things in "The Cage" didn't look the same. Things change in 13 years.There's a long dialogue there. Doesn't mean there's a long trip - if Spock wants to talk with the Commander for a long time, he can simply drive from Deck 1 to Deck 2 and then talk for an hour if need be, without breaking the dramatic moment by leaving the lift.
The visuals don't indicate the lift would be moving - the shots are too close-up for that. So we can interpret it whichever way. It's not as if halting the lift for an indeterminate time would somehow jam the system, as there are multiple lifts, and supposedly those can pass each other at will (say, two lifts leave the Bridge back to back in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield").
If there's such an obvious downgrade, it's nice to have an in-universe explanation for that, is all. Nothing else about the ship ever changed quite that drastically, not even Engineering (which from the get-go was established to be bigger and more complex than the sets we see).
Add to this that Kirk's quarters seemed to be on the move: Deck 12 was quoted, then Deck 5, and the movies suggested the CO quarters might actually be where McCoy's are, on Deck 3. If Kirk wanted to play the Wandering Jew or the Flying Dutchman or whatever, it would be perfectly natural to assume that Deck 2 (the one place he never lived on, apparently) might have remained in the state suggested in "The Cage". Or that Pike's cabin, wherever that was, remained, if that's your preferred formulation of the concept.
It might be worth noting that Kirk's series cabins all were of the "standard" type; that a top officer had to relocate to accommodate a diplomatic guest in "Elaan of Troyius"; and that Kirk was on a deck never quoted for him again when the ship accommodated more than a hundred such guests. Swapping cabins might be a Kirk habit, prompted by his ship not being big enough to provide for guests (or other users of passenger spaces) otherwise.
Timo Saloniemi
Well the crew size seems o have at least doubled between Pike's command near Talos IV and Kirk's command around Starbase 11. 200 of so people on Pike's ship verse 430 on Kirk's. The Captain's quarters got smaller when they moved the bulkheads to add more quarters.
As for the other "captain's quarters" maybe Kirk likes to sleep around. With all the Red Shirts they keep losing, there are open quarters.
As for the other "captain's quarters" maybe Kirk likes to sleep around. With all the Red Shirts they keep losing, there are open quarters.
If course it wasn't his cabin, the bed was way too short!...We're left wondering whether it was his quarters at all, or rather some VIP lounge adjoining the guest quarters (which according to "The Enterprise Incident" are there right next to the bridge, on Deck 2) that Pike shamelessly exploited since there were no VIPs aboard.
Also, I don't think there's enough room on Deck 2 for everything we see in The Cage: the entire Rec Room plus a stretch of corridor which goes on at least a bit further past the camera (those 2 people have to come from somewhere!) would require Deck 3 or 4 ideally. Still, there's no reason to think that the room wasn't still there in Kirk's day.
Not just "standard" but distinctly modular. It would take but a trice to errect a partition wall between the living and sleeping areas to create two separate sleeping quarters. Stick a couple of bunks in each room and suddenly you've accomodated 8 people in 2 rooms with a minimum of fuss. It would also justify the 2nd corridor access door in Kirk's quarters, seemingly superfluous but actually vital in a modular room of this sort.
In contrast, Kirk's quarters in TMP only had once door entrance - obviously one of the benefits of being able to redesign the entire ship is that the top brass get to stay in their own cabin from week to week!
Presupposes that deck 2 is directly under the bridge. Was there ever a TOS canon reference to the bridge as deck 1?
As the boss' secretary, she obviously had perks not available to other yeomen.
Hopefully McGivers was able to do everything on the computer, as her paintings sure took up a lot of space.
"Charlie X" and "The Conscience of the King" both feature a stately guest cabin that Elaan could have used. And you have to wonder how 100 VIPs were accomodated in "Journey to Babel." Displaced crewmen must have been roughing it in cots on the hangar deck.
Not on air. But The Making of Star Trek (1968) describes the decks in a way that Franz Joseph followed very closely, including putting 1 at the top, if I recall. I'm at work and can't check the book. Real ocean vessels put Deck 1 or A-Deck at the top.
Simply not true, at least not now. Navy ships are numbered from the weather deck, with levels above and decks below.
http://www.princeton.edu/~abraitis/pics/decks.gif
I can tell you with absolute certainty that no ship I served on had a bridge on Deck 1.
Most cruise ship lines seem to number their ships from the bottom up, like a building. A GIS* did not return any hits of a modern ship using a top-to-bottom numbering system.
http://www.bahamasparadisecruise.com/images/Deck-Plans-SideView.jpg
http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/TT-Tasmania/Spirit0fTasmania-II-brochure01.jpg
http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/SeaPrincessJPEGs/SeaPrinPlan01.jpg
I only asked the question to introduce the possibility of alternate numbering systems that might account for some of the weirdness.
*(Google Image Search)
This makes a lot of sense to me.
This also seems rather logical. It fits with what we were shown in the series, but it also makes allowances for more pratical considerations.
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