Realisitic Space Battle Help

[Sketcher]

Hi all, I'm thinking about making a space war short film for my film school application. I want to make in the vain of 2001, where it's as realistic in terms of space flight and technology as can be conceived. So, if you could, I would deeply appreciate any input you all could give in terms of what a true space battle would look like. Would it be similar to a submarine battle with two ships lurking about until one fires a shot that completely takes out the enemy vessel? What type of weapons would be utilized? Would a battle take place in deep space, or in a solar system, or in orbit of a planet? Any and all help/suggestions would be great

 

[Colonel Green]

Depends. If the opposing forces originate in different solar systems, they'd most likely meet in deep space. The best way to defend your planet is to intercept attackers as far away as possible. If a battle does take place inside a solar system, it'd happen at or near the target planet. An attacker would have no reason to come close to any other planets, as they can approach from a plane other than that on which the planets orbit.

I wouldn't expect any dogfighting. Missiles would be launched from extreme range by whichever ship/fleet was able to get a visual first.

Real interstellar war would probably be pretty boring to watch.

 

[trekkiedane]

Depends. If the opposing forces originate in different solar systems, they'd most likely meet in deep space.

Actually, wouldn't they need to be VERY (un)lucky to actually meet in deep space? -considering how big the place is- unless, of course, this happens on a (more-or-less) direct line between two specific points that are part of the conflict.

The best way to defend your planet is to intercept attackers as far away as possible. If a battle does take place inside a solar system, it'd happen at or near the target planet.

If indeed the target is a planet; could be an asteroid, a comet, some artificial structure...
Or it could happen as far away from that target as the defenders are able to come to intercept the intruders.

Iain M. Banks has a great armada coming through space towards their target-system in 'The Algebraist', once the attacking fleet has reached the halfway point between their point of origin and the system they want to attack they turn around their ships and use the engines for deceleration and the sky lights up:

There's no such thing as FTL flight in this novel so, amongst other things, the space battle parts are a great read

An attacker would have no reason to come close to any other planets, as they can approach from a plane other than that on which the planets orbit.

Unless they want to hide behind them

I wouldn't expect any dogfighting. Missiles would be launched from extreme range by whichever ship/fleet was able to get a visual first.

Right, dogfighting would only happen in the sky above a planet, not anywhere in 'real space', missiles (and perhaps particle beams) is what makes sense to use in space.

Real interstellar war would probably be pretty boring to watch.

And the stress of waiting for years, months, weeks is the real battle 'cause the fighting might be over very quick.

The Algebraist, I can recommend it highly! -It's quite hard SciFi when it comes to the actual space travel (and fighting).

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Missiles/Torpedoes.

Focused particle beams.

Plasma Canons.

EM Rail Guns.

Stealth Mines with target interception.

Hull ablative armour.

Polarized hull plating.

------

I imagine upon first detection long range missiles may be utilised to attack but the enemy will no doubt have countermeasures in the form of rail guns, particle beams or smaller interceptor missiles.
I think that close combat in space makes more sense, any long range attacks in space could probably be defended against.

So close combat seems most likely in order to make a successful kill.

 

[sojourner]

Everything you could possibly want to know on the subject is here:
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3t.html

 

[JustAFriend]

Dear Sketcher:

Go to the library. Start reading sci-fi.

You've got about 120 years of material to catch up on that's already been done....

 

[sojourner]

^Dude, that was uncalled for.

 

[RedShirt]

Everything you could possibly want to know on the subject is here:
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3t.html

Exactly what I was going to recommend.
A very excellent site.

 

[Lindley]

Dear Sketcher:

Go to the library. Start reading sci-fi.

You've got about 120 years of material to catch up on that's already been done....

^Dude, that was uncalled for.

But actually a good point. SF writers have thought more about this stuff than most others.

Actually, it reminds me of that bit in the Posleen War series. When the aliens show up and the military needs to figure out how the hell they're going to fight them, the first thing they do is call in a bunch of SF writers for a brainstorming session.

 

[T'Girl]

Probably be pretty boring to watch.

And the stress of waiting for years, months, weeks is the real battle 'cause the fighting might be over very quick.

That's suppose to be one of the really nasty things about desert warfare, the stress of endlessly watching your opponents slowly approaching your position.

The Honor Harrington series of book, while not hard sci-fi, are pretty realistic military sci-fi. You never just turn in zero-gee, you apply thrust for hours (or days) to change direction. The series does have FTL.

 

[MANT!]

A rather great gent calling himself Nyrath has contributed the following website so that folks like you can get some real physics information as to what space war might look like..

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3t.html

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3z.html


good luck...

 

[T'Girl]

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3z.html
There seems to be a near universal ignorance on these writers parts about stealth materials and electronic counter measures. Radar isn't the military panacea that 1950's sci-fi authors made it out to be.

Referring to the impenetrable sphere defense, maybe I can't get in, but if that's all you have going for you, you can never get out. And for my purposes, that works just fine. I no longer have to eliminate you from the galactic stage ...

You just did that for me.

 

[Caliburn24]

I agree, the writers in the 1950s in general did not foresee radar countermeasures. But if by making that argument you're implying that stealth in space will work by extension, I disagree.

As the website in question argues on its "Detection" page.

"Well FINE!!", you say, "I'll turn off the engines and run silent like a submarine in a World War II movie. I'll be invisible." Unfortunately that won't work either. The life support for your crew emits enough heat to be detected at an exceedingly long range. The 285 Kelvin habitat module will stand out like a search-light against the three Kelvin background of outer space.

And if you are hoping to lose your tiny heat signature in the vastness of the sky, I've got some bad news for you. Current astronomical instruments can do a complete sky survey in about four hours, or less.

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3w.html

Until science comes up with a way to hide/displace the thermal signature and exhaust plume emitted by spacecraft stealth in space is going to remain as science fiction.

 

[T'Girl]

Hmmmm. Okay the thermal signature of the spacecraft could be concealed by directing all on board heat into a shielded heat sink located inside the spacecraft, it wouldn't last long (few hours) by that might be long enough for your final approach.

The propulsion for your first wave of attack could be made using spacecraft powered by mass drivers, solar powered, using heat sinks.

The best way to defeat "astronomical instruments" during your run in to target would probably be to pay someone to just turn them off.

Promise them a high position in the new order.

 

[sojourner]

A rather great gent calling himself Nyrath has contributed the following website so that folks like you can get some real physics information as to what space war might look like..

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3t.html

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3z.html


good luck...

Wow, great idea!

 

[Brandonv]

Hmmmm. Okay the thermal signature of the spacecraft could be concealed by directing all on board heat into a shielded heat sink located inside the spacecraft, it wouldn't last long (few hours) by that might be long enough for your final approach.

That is how the Normandy's stealth works in Mass Effect.

The Normandy's IES (internal emission sink) stealth system is her most notable feature. For centuries, it was assumed that starship stealth was impossible. The heat generated by routine shipboard operations is easily detectable against the near absolute zero background temperature of space. The Normandy, however, is able to temporarily "store" this heat in lithium heat sinks deep within the hull.[...]

I always thought that sounded like a very plausible way to stealth a spacecraft.

 

[Caliburn24]

But as far as realism goes, such heat sinks are science fiction for the moment.

You can keep channeling all your excess heat into a heat sink, but it will take more and more power and cooling to keep it there, which in turn creates more and more heat to put into the sink. It becomes a feedback cycle which current technology cannot escape.

 

[Brandonv]

But as far as realism goes, such heat sinks are science fiction for the moment.

You can keep channeling all your excess heat into a heat sink, but it will take more and more power and cooling to keep it there, which in turn creates more and more heat to put into the sink. It becomes a feedback cycle which current technology cannot escape.

That is a good point that I didn't think of. Whatever energy is put into the heat sink will simply want to radiate away into the surrounding environment. Maybe it would work if the heat energy could be converted into some other kind of potential energy inside the sink?

 

[sojourner]

^nope, because the device doing the "converting" would also produce heat. Still a feed back loop.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Permanently storing heat is thermodynamically impossible.

Temporarily - that's another matter. The question becomes - how can you keep the amount of heat from increasing too fast?
Cooling the heat sink will generate more heat that a heat converter? Well, then one uses the heat converter.
A few hours of heat invisibility should be feasible.

One could also try to radiate the heat in the opposite direction of the enemy ship/fleet/etc.