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Reading Marathon: The Typhon Pact... and Beyond!

Your point about the characters never doing anything proactive is spot on. It’s not just that there’s so much exposition, it’s that while the book is expositing it feels like it still hasn’t started yet. For hundreds of pages.

I found Ascendance to be one of his stronger entries, though, with all the expositing and summarizing done in this one. Hope you find some story to enjoy more there also.
 
It's a little hard reaching back after all this time to remember which book is which, but I definitely do recall him summarizing and recapping scenes that happened very recently in the same book.

And, of course, the "When are the going to get to the fireworks factory?!" plotline which is in its early stages here and, ah, the answer turned out to be "never."
 
Your point about the characters never doing anything proactive is spot on. It’s not just that there’s so much exposition, it’s that while the book is expositing it feels like it still hasn’t started yet. For hundreds of pages.
Yeah, thinking about it, this is probably part of the reason none of the new characters really work. Vaughn, Shar, Taran'atar, and so on had things they wanted to do, and other things in conflict with them. What does Jefferson Blackmer want? Gregory Desjardins?* Wheeler Stinson?

* Why put a JAG office on the station if you never use it to tell a story, anyway?

I found Ascendance to be one of his stronger entries, though, with all the expositing and summarizing done in this one. Hope you find some story to enjoy more there also.
It's okay so far. More action-y, which is good, but still a lot of characters watching things happen.
It's a little hard reaching back after all this time to remember which book is which, but I definitely do recall him summarizing and recapping scenes that happened very recently in the same book.
Yes, that's Sacraments of Fire. It's like, "yes, I know how Altek Dans got on the station because I read it in this book an hour ago today!"
 
Nog is not on the station, he's said to be "away on assignment." This basically makes him the only Ferengi DS9 character to not appear in the book... a book where his dad comes and visits for the first time in like a decade! To be honest, I kind of felt like the line was slipped in at the last minute because the writers forgot about Nog; it's not a continuity reference (as I thought it might be at first), because Nog is there throughout Sacraments.

I think the Nog off the station thing is a reference to Force and Motion, the Nog-and-O'Brien buddy movie novel by Jeffrey Lang, yet another story that takes place around the same time. It doesn't surprise me if the continuity doesn't line up perfectly because, as you've well established, that is clearly not a priority for them around this time.
Ah, just got to the bit in Ascendance where Nog comes back to the station. I hadn't clocked that he didn't appear in part II of Sacraments, as he hadn't yet returned from his assignment to Active Four in The Poisoned Chalice, so it does all line up in this case.
 
Deep Space Nine: Ascendance by David R. George III
Published:
January 2016
Time Span: December 2377–February 2378 / December 2385–January 2386

It's sort of a miracle we got an Ascendants wrap-up book, you know? If Deep Space Nine was a comic book, it would have just moved on and forgotten about all this once the big crossover (i.e., Destiny) came along. It certainly wouldn't have spent time wrappup up a dangling plotline from a previous editorial regime. So, maybe we should be grateful?

And yet...

As I said in my previous write-up, it was a long time ago that I read Rising Son and its following books, so I am going off some pretty vague memories at this points. Yet if I recall correctly, what made the Ascendants interesting was the potential for cultural and religious conflict. These were people who had the same gods as the Bajorans but interpreted them differently. What would happen when they met the Bajorans?

This book is somewhat oddly structured. While Sacraments of Fire moved back and forth between 2377 and 2385, using the Kira of 2385(ish) as its focalizing character in 2377, Ascendance is split into half. The first half is all set in 2377; I wonder if you could just read it on its own as the next installment in the OG relaunch after The Soul Key. In this, Iliana Ghemor leads the Ascendant fleet through the Bajoran wormhole. I recently reread my review of The Soul Key from back in the day, and I wrote, "What really bothers me is that Fearful Symmetry gave Iliana Ghemor a complex backstory and strong character... but that felt entirely pointless here, as she became just another sneering madwoman." That continues here; Ghemor decides to blow up Bajor because she's so mad at Kira.

On the surface this has more action than Sacraments, but mostly all the characters seem to do is watch the Ascendant fleet come. Which is unfortunate because there are a lot of characters to do this watching: Kira, Sisko, Ezri, Vaughn. But no one does anything interesting. Basically what happens is that Taran'atar takes the only action of significance. We spent a big chunk of the previous book getting reacquainted with the Even Odds crew, but they're irrelevant here, they don't even show up.

The Ascendants attack... and Taran'atar sucks them all up. That's it? It doesn't feel worthy of the buildup, and it's not the kind of conflict I remember imagining. It fills a gap, but it kinds of feels like that's all it does. Sisko has a good idea, but doesn't feel like he plays an interesting role—weren't the Ascendants the whole reason he came back in Unity? Plus, it continues the thing I hate that all the post-Destiny novels have done with Sisko, which is take him away from being the Emissary.

Then we get an overly long double epilogue about Kira and Ezri, setting up the former's switch to religious life (still not sold on this) and the latter's transfer to the Aventine. Like so many George moments of "characterization," it's just someone sitting around thinking about something, not something that happens in the actual story.

* * *

Then we jump back to the present of Deep Space Nine narrative. This happens on p. 171... and the first inkling we get of something approaching a plot is p. 229. For sixty pages, people think about things and people have meetings. What will happen to Cenn Desca? I couldn't care less. Nog thinks about Vic, Ro thinks about Altek Dans, Quark thinks about Ro, Sisko thinks about exploring. Can you really write sixty pages of a novel with no clear narrative direction? Apparently so. I was so continually frustrated by this.

Every now and then there's a moment of characterization that actually does shine; I liked Quark asking if Nog was okay following the events of The Poisoned Chalice a lot.

Finally things come into focus. When Odo linked with the mysterious shapeshifter at the end of Sacraments, it came to life; now it begins flying through space faster-than-light toward the Bajoran system and the Defiant must intercept it. There is some nicely creepy stuff, but once again, I can't shake the feeling that our characters are just watching the story, not participating in it. Only Ro does anything that matters, when she opts to board the shapeshifter (which has by this point formed a duplicate DS9) against everyone else's objections. Even now, though, I am wondering why this is in the same book as the first half. What does it have to do with anything?

Here, we learn that when Taran'atar and the Ascendants blew up they merged into a weird collective life form but it was inert until it learned how to shapeshift from Odo. The Ascendants want to complete their ascension, so they fly into the wormhole and become the "planet" from "Emissary" whose existence I was dubious about back in Revelation and Dust. And... that's it?

Here, I feel the the ingredients existed to do something interesting. George is clearly trying to explore faith, in particular Taran'atar's, who in the end tragically cannot break free of the need to worship. I did like the return of Raiq and wonder if future novels will find anything interesting for her to do. But again, few characters have moments they make choices.

Moreover, from an ongoing storyline perspective, it's a bit of a fizzle. I think the ingredients are here—the merged Ascendant entity is like a Founder because of something one Ascendant did with the Founder god corpse in Olympus Descending. But, is there some kind of connection between the Founders and their god and the Prophets? But these are ideas in my head, not ones the novel explores or even raises. Instead, we are treated to a scene about which boring nonentity will replace another boring nonentity as the first office of DS9. Will it be—checks notes—uh, Stinson, who I guess has been in four previous novels but left no mark at all and who we are treated to a two-page backstory infodump about? No, it's Jefferson Blackmer, Starfleet's worst chief of security. Well, at least he's been promoted to a position where he's no longer responsible for stopping sabotage or assassination, I guess.

The gaps are filled, I guess, the storyline tied off. But what was the point? What was it actually about? This one read much better than Sacraments, with more action... but very little of it seemed to matter in the end.

Continuity Notes:
  • As this project's second installment, I read the original series novel Allegiance in Exile. Thirty-nine books later that finally paid off when someone looked up the Ascendants in the computer and found the Memory Beta entry on Allegiance in Exile. Result!
  • No one in this book knows where Bashir is. Meanwhile over in Section 31: Disavowed (which I've already started) he's been pardoned and commended and is living publicly on Andor.
  • This book acknowledges that La Forge tinkered with Vic's program in The Light Fantastic, when Nog was off the station between The Poisoned Chalice and now. But then who was messing with Vic's program before Sacraments?
Other Notes:
  • What is up with Altek Dans? As in, what is the purpose of this character? Why is he in this series. Two 300-page books later and I have no idea. How is he a vehicle for new stories? I cannot fathom it. The "romance" with Ro comes from nowhere and nothing. Just why? I also don't get why no one just shows him a map of Bajor and asks him where his city was. Even if he's from 500,000 years ago, there should be enough familiar geographical features for him to answer this question.
  • Odo spends basically the whole book unconscious, then he leaves.
  • Like Sacraments of Fire, the back cover blurb fails to describe the book in any meaningful way, feeling like someone just pasted in the first two paragraphs of George's outline.
 
As with many other reviews of DRG3's DS9 books, I really can't argue with anything you've said. Something about his story choices and writing style just doesn't work for me anymore, and yet it apparently worked for whoever was in charge of editing at the time because they happily kept giving him more work.

This trilogy though - Revelation and Dust, Sacraments of Fire, Ascendance - is especially of interest to me because I already wrote my own version of the Ascendants story long before DRG3 did, when it seemed like that story was never going to get told by the official books. I realise I'm always pushing my DS9Continuing stories with an air of desperation on here, but in this case I really would like to invite you to read them, especially seasons 10 and 11, as I like to think I pre-emptively addressed a lot of the issues you've raised here. Especially with regard to character development and feeling like the characters are actually involved in the story and not just reacting to it.

(Season 8 was Avatar to Unity, S9 was Unjoined to The Soul Key, S10 is mostly the Ascendants story, s11 is about the Ohalavaru, S12 is what DS9 was doing doing Destiny, S13 is the post-Borg refugee crisis and rise of the Typhon Pact, and S14 is fixing Plagues of Night / Raise the Dawn.)
 
I've always liked your work @DS9Continuing - it's nice to see you push it.

But honestly I just wish DS9 hadnt become the "red-haired stepchild" of the post-Destiny series. While some aspects continued brilliantly in their own lanes (whenever McCormack touched Garak or the station), or well (Bashir to an extent, including Mack's propulsive Fall novel, the Andorians on occasion), I think every other aspect of the DS9 books just foundered, so drearily. DRG can be a great writer (his TOS trilogy remains so good, his Enterprise B novel too; I have a soft place for his Sulu novel also), and he has noble, interesting ideas that are trying to do interesting things, but his approach to DS9 from Rough Beasts onwards just didn't work.

Yes, a cast of generic characters is realistic to any office, but it's so bland and your snarky comments @Stevil2001 about them ring true all these years later. Most especially the treatment of Sisko remains maddening, not because DRG deconstructed him (I like our heroes to be deconstructed), but because it was so erratically and boringly told, with no other interesting characters in the room often, and felt like it didn't follow on from anything earlier on in the series (TV or books).

It's an intriguing contrast with Beyer's work on Voyager. There a single writer really injected a flagging relaunch series with a fantastic new version - whereas almost the opposite happened with DS9 (minus those aforementioned "side adventures").

It's such a shame because - while not always perfect - the original DS9 relaunch was such a good experiment, with often magnetic characters.
 
It's an intriguing contrast with Beyer's work on Voyager. There a single writer really injected a flagging relaunch series with a fantastic new version - whereas almost the opposite happened with DS9 (minus those aforementioned "side adventures").

It's such a shame because - while not always perfect - the original DS9 relaunch was such a good experiment, with often magnetic characters.

Truly - Kirsten Beyer revitalised the Voyager line to the extent that many people reported becoming a fan of the series purely thanks to her books, not thanks to the TV show. Exploring the old characters further, and introducing new characters that slotted in well and became just as beloved as the originals - Cambridge, Eden, Lasren, Conlon, Farkas, Bryce.

And the original DS9 relaunch, a multi-author project, created stories and characters still talked about even now, 20 years later. Vaughn, Shar, Tenmei, Taran'atar, Bowers, Yevir - again they fit in so well that you might believe they were always there. DRG3 was part of that ensemble, indeed it was his work in Twilight that made the Vaughn-Tenmei relationship so interesting. So why did everything become so splintered and simultaneously bland?

Honestly, I blame Marco Palmieri. When he was in charge, he kept a tight rein and executed his vision. He just raised the bar too high.

.
 
You just read the novel! Do you know which shapeshifting entity/phenomenon is gripping the Defiant on the Ascendance cover? I've been whacking my brains for years to figure it out, especially because the scene returns in the SOTL calendars.
 

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This trilogy though - Revelation and Dust, Sacraments of Fire, Ascendance - is especially of interest to me because I already wrote my own version of the Ascendants story long before DRG3 did, when it seemed like that story was never going to get told by the official books.
You did? You've never mentioned it. ;)
I realise I'm always pushing my DS9Continuing stories with an air of desperation on here, but in this case I really would like to invite you to read them, especially seasons 10 and 11, as I like to think I pre-emptively addressed a lot of the issues you've raised here.
I appreciate the offer and I am curious, but they're all in script format, right? I can't imagine reading that much content in script format, I just do not enjoy it.
But honestly I just wish DS9 hadnt become the "red-haired stepchild" of the post-Destiny series. While some aspects continued brilliantly in their own lanes (whenever McCormack touched Garak or the station), or well (Bashir to an extent, including Mack's propulsive Fall novel, the Andorians on occasion), I think every other aspect of the DS9 books just foundered, so drearily. DRG can be a great writer (his TOS trilogy remains so good, his Enterprise B novel too; I have a soft place for his Sulu novel also), and he has noble, interesting ideas that are trying to do interesting things, but his approach to DS9 from Rough Beasts onwards just didn't work.
I kind of wonder how much is it is down to editor. Did Marco know how to shape George's work that would get the best out of him?

Yes, a cast of generic characters is realistic to any office, but it's so bland and your snarky comments @Stevil2001 about them ring true all these years later.
Yeah, I think Candlewood is fine if your requirement is "after Jadzia died, we need to say someone is doing science stuff," but he was never designed to be a focal character and it shows, and that goes for most of these people, and whenever the Defiant goes somewhere, its crew is almost entirely made up of people like that.
Most especially the treatment of Sisko remains maddening, not because DRG deconstructed him (I like our heroes to be deconstructed), but because it was so erratically and boringly told, with no other interesting characters in the room often, and felt like it didn't follow on from anything earlier on in the series (TV or books).
Yeah, it's weird how rarely characters interact. Everyone seems lost in their own thoughts all the time; the real strength of DS9 on tv (and the original relaunch) was in how the members of its ensemble interacted. Whenever something like that does happen (Kira/Taran'atar in Sacraments, Ro/Taran'atar in Ascendance) it actually is pretty good, but it never happens. Even with Quark/Ro, it's never Quark and Ro interacting, but rather Quark scenes where he thinks about Ro and Ro scenes where she thinks about Quark. But originally it was George who made Quark/Ro into a believable thing back in Twilight!

You just read the novel! Do you know which shapeshifting entity/phenomenon is gripping the Defiant on the Ascendance cover? I've been whacking my brains for years to figure it out, especially because the scene returns in the SOTL calendars.
Have you not read the book? It's the inert shapeshifting lifeform that debuts in Sacraments of Fire, and then we find out in Ascendance that it's all the dead Ascendants who attacked Bajor (and Taran'atar) merged together thanks to a compound derived from the dead Founder god from Olympus Descending.

Interesting that the calendar scene replaces Deep Space 9B with the original station, I guess because of the broader audience for the calendars.
 
Truly - Kirsten Beyer revitalised the Voyager line to the extent that many people reported becoming a fan of the series purely thanks to her books, not thanks to the TV show. Exploring the old characters further, and introducing new characters that slotted in well and became just as beloved as the originals - Cambridge, Eden, Lasren, Conlon, Farkas, Bryce.

And the original DS9 relaunch, a multi-author project, created stories and characters still talked about even now, 20 years later. Vaughn, Shar, Tenmei, Taran'atar, Bowers, Yevir - again they fit in so well that you might believe they were always there. DRG3 was part of that ensemble, indeed it was his work in Twilight that made the Vaughn-Tenmei relationship so interesting. So why did everything become so splintered and simultaneously bland?

Honestly, I blame Marco Palmieri. When he was in charge, he kept a tight rein and executed his vision. He just raised the bar too high.

.

See, when I reread Twilight last, I realized... I don't think DRG really gave any significant spotlight to the Tenmei side of the relationship. There's a lot about how Vaughn regrets not being involved and such, but I don't feel like her feelings were genuinely given validity and attention before he went and tried to resolve that storyline in the way of "he deserves her forgiveness," rather than "he attempts to earn it." And that feeling increased when I saw what happened with her in the course of Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn (re: nothing) and her near absence in these, when we saw the assembly of the senior staff at the end of Ascendance. Like... The most that she actually does in the post-Destiny books ends up being her contribution in A Ceremony of Losses, and then is hang-gliding in the park of the new DS9. Aside from that, she's just sitting at Vaughn's bedside for several books, then, once he dies, she doesn't DO anything.

Similarly, Counselor Matthias had been being built up as a major character in the course of Mission Gamma and Worlds of DS9, but then I don't think she puts in a physical appearance after the time skip. Same with Gul Macet, and even Opaka. Not to mention Vedek Yevir. It comes across as he didn't want to deal with them, even though they'd been being woven into the grander tapestry by other authors.

Also in the course of Ascendance, as well as going back to Plagues of Night, I honestly felt like there was a lot of jabs and negative comments about the original station - Ascendance has Kira saying that she sometimes still tripped on the raised doorframes, which... had never been a thing before, and back in Plagues of Night, Cenn Desca has to actively remind himself that it's "the captain's office" not "the prefect's office," even though it had NEVER been the prefect's office in his time on DS9, which, by the point of that novel, was about seven years in-universe.

Of course, you're forgiven for not realizing that length of time in the books themselves, because that's another thing about his writing - it's not just a lot of people standing around thinking about things, it's a lot of time passing where that's all we see "on screen," where his books take place over weeks or even months, but nothing happens in the course of that time until the end. It's decompressing time when it doesn't actually serve the plot, such as it is.

Like I generally just come down that DRG does not work for me, as a reader, I'm not here to criticize him as a writer or person, just that I don't find he worked in this setting - when I read The Missing or Force and Motion, they FELT more like DS9 to me, because they were character pieces. DRG seems to be more about the grand overarching story, so wrapped up in the mechanics of where the plot is going, he forgets that the reason that DS9 resonates as it does is more in the characters and how they are impacted. So he ends up filling time to pay off those big plot events not with character development and connections, just... spinning wheels and setting up the board, to make sure that they're where they'll need to be for the plot, rather than letting the characters drive it to the destination that they need.
 
So he ends up filling time to pay off those big plot events not with character development and connections, just... spinning wheels and setting up the board, to make sure that they're where they'll need to be for the plot, rather than letting the characters drive it to the destination that they need.

Thanks for articulating this so clearly. I enjoy spending time on DS9 in the novels. More than watching the show even. But every plot was drawn out and, post-Destiny, didn’t lead anywhere. Outside of Ferengi comedies there was a lack of adventures of the week or exploring the worlds of the Gamma Quadrant VOY-style.
 
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My two memories of reading the final years of DS9 novels:
1. "Maybe this current novel I am reading is set up for the next one where things will happen" (same thoughts then apply to next novel)
2. Station crew seemed to be reduced to just Ro and Blackmer (which was further reinforced by what happened to Blackmer in Ascendence)
 
I will agree with Christopher that Marco is very good at bringing out the best in a writer. It's not a coincidence that the two novels of mine that I consider two of the best -- certainly my two best Trek novels -- are The Art of the Impossible and Articles of the Federation, and Marco has a lot to do with why those two stand out.
 
I will agree with Christopher that Marco is very good at bringing out the best in a writer. It's not a coincidence that the two novels of mine that I consider two of the best -- certainly my two best Trek novels -- are The Art of the Impossible and Articles of the Federation, and Marco has a lot to do with why those two stand out.
I'll also second that sentiment. Marco pushed me to go beyond what I thought was my comfort zone from the first book I wrote for him (Vanguard: Harbinger). He helped me make great strides as a writer, and it remains one of my goals to work with him again someday, in whatever medium fate allows, simply because I miss working with him.
 
You did? You've never mentioned it. ;)

Sorry :alienblush: I'm just really proud of it and I want everyone else to love it as much as I do. I'm also really bad at figuring out how to promote myself without it coming across as pushy and obnoxious. So basically I'm the standard introvert nerd writer.

I appreciate the offer and I am curious, but they're all in script format, right? I can't imagine reading that much content in script format, I just do not enjoy it.

Scripts, yes, as if it were just more episodes of the TV shows. Which on the downside would be the equivalent of committing to a whole nother 7-season TV show. But it also means they're in smaller chunks, making it easier to get one at a time done without having to settle in for a whole novel.

And now I feel bad for bad-mouthing DRG3's work in front of the other authors who are his colleagues and presumably friends. But fans will have opinions I guess, and as long as we're keeping it to constructive criticism of the work and not insults to the man himself, it's valid.

.
 
Sorry :alienblush: I'm just really proud of it and I want everyone else to love it as much as I do. I'm also really bad at figuring out how to promote myself without it coming across as pushy and obnoxious. So basically I'm the standard introvert nerd writer.
I don't mind, I just find it a bit amusing. I think your explanations of what you did instead provides good insight into the creative decisions.

And now I feel bad for bad-mouthing DRG3's work in front of the other authors who are his colleagues and presumably friends. But fans will have opinions I guess, and as long as we're keeping it to constructive criticism of the work and not insults to the man himself, it's valid.
Well, if authors don't want to read critical comments, they should stay out of review threads!

Finished Disavowed last night so I should write up my thoughts later tonight.
 
As for the Editors, I always felt like Marco and @KRAD we're more focused in the storytelling and see themselves as part of the creative process , while others Like Margaret see themselves more like managerial clerks that help produce the product in time.
 
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