Re-imagine: Star ship class II

[Wingsley]

Just for sake of discussion here, forget everything beyond the confines of TOS and maybe TAS. The U.S.S. Enterprise is a Star Ship Class space vessel. (That's what the dedication plaque on the TOS bridge said, after all.) Remember what Captain Merrik said in "Bread and Circuses": "He (Kirk) commands not just a space ship, Proconsul, but a star ship; a very special vessel and crew..."

Imagine there is no Franz Joseph Tech Manual, no refit TMP Enterprise, no Reliant from "The Wrath of Khan", and so on.

Let us imagine the Star Ship Class of which the Enterprise is a member as being the ultimate space vessel that the United Federation of Planets can build and maintain. And let us imagine that a command of a Star Ship Class vessel is so prestigious that several such vessels are commanded by flag officers (Wesley, Decker, and even briefly, Stocker, to name a few).

But what about companion star ships of the line, those ships which also fall into the realm that Merrik spoke of, but are not as grandiose as the Enterprise? Remember, Krasnovsky was introduced by Commodore Stone as a star ship captain in "Court Martial", yet Krasnovsky's uniform was the blue of sciences or medical. Could Krasnovsky have been the captain of a Star Ship II class vessel, a powerful, "very special vessel" yet less capable than Kirk's Enterprise? If you could go back and imagine a companion Star Ship II class, based on the same technology but not as massive or as capable, what would that class of vessel look like?

How would you re-imagine Federation star ships as companions of the Enterprise? What would they look like?

Could the mysterious ship seen through the lens of the Guardian of Forever in TAS' "Yesteryear" be such a vessel?

Could such a Star Ship II Class be configured with multiple hulls, like the Star Ship Class is? Or would smaller such vessels be impractical in terms of interior volume?

 

[Relayer]

So, is this a long winded way of saying you want some original TOS designs?

 

[Wingsley]

It isn't just about a design in a drawing sense; it's about trying to recapture what TOS put forward about what a starship is, stripped of all the pretenses from the movies and the succeeding franchises.

A couple of vague but obvious ideas popped into my head. One would be a smaller ship, probably loosely based on the "Daedalus" design. Karim Nassar posted an interesting take on the "Daedalus" on his web-site:

http://www.karimnassar.com/design/daedalus.php

Of course, that doesn't capture the TOS "look", and it isn't just hull texture or compnents. It's shape. There's no TOS-tradmark undercut on the rear of the secondary hull, no TOS-style dish, etc. It ends up being a question of how much of the Enterprise's shape you want to incorporate into other designs... before it becomes... the Bonaventure?

Actually, the Daedalus would be too small to be a Star Ship II Class vessel. It might be a Star Ship III Class. (In case you don't see where this is headed... Spock said the SS Beagle was a "class 4... stardrive vessel... crew of 47..." Of course, the Beagle was called a space ship, not a star ship, whatever that means...)

The Bonaventure is an obvious possibility as a Star Ship II Class vessel, but then it has all sorts of funny shapes and bulges that don't fit into the TOS era. The appeal of the design is that it follows the same basic multi-hull shape as the Enterprise. This multi-hull design means antimatter can be handled someplace else other than just a "main hull", just like the Enterprise.

Think of it this way: if there were a fourth year of TOS, and they had the budget for it, what would their Reliant or Grissom look like?

 

[shipfisher]

In many ways, the straight pylons, simple shapes and uncluttered hull surfaces of the TOS connie looked the most practical and realistic of all the trekship designs. Hopefully ST:XI will give some sort of "updated" answer to how various TOS style ships would've looked.

 

[Relayer]

shipfisher said:
In many ways, the straight pylons, simple shapes and uncluttered hull surfaces of the TOS connie looked the most practical and realistic of all the trekship designs. Hopefully ST:XI will give some sort of "updated" answer to how various TOS style ships would've looked.

I agree. I believe that ships built and operated ouside of an atmosphere would be made up of primitive shapes. Spheres/boxes/cylinders etc... Not all stretched and aerodynamic.

 

[Wingsley]

If the Daedalus were used as a Star Ship II Class or Star Ship III Class vessel in TOS, how would it look different from the models/images we have seen associated with that name?

I think the aft end of the secondary hull would have to have an undercut like the Enterprise. One thing I like about Karim Nassar's design is that he took the connecting tube between the secondary hull and the sphere and he moved it up so the sphere is "higher" on the ship's profile. I would exaggerate this a little more by making the tube meet the spherical hull at or very close to its base. This would give more clearance to the secondary hull so a deflector dish could be put there. I also like the way Nassar moved the nacelle pylons back a little. They look more like the Enterprise that way.

I would also want to see what else could be done to make the "Daedalus" fit in and look like it's part of the same technological family that rendered the Star Ship Class. Obviously, the spheroid would have to have glowing domes on its top and bottom, just like the Enterprise. The whole ship would have to be sheathed with the same texture as the Enterprise. And, as with the shuttlecraft, the impulse and warp engines would have to be familial.

I still see the "Daedalus" as being only a Star Ship III Class, though. It seems too small to be anything else.

I'm wondering what anyone else thinks about design cues from the "Daedalus" and Bonaventure being used to form a "mid size" vessel, maybe considered a "light star cruiser" or "star scout/frigate", as the basis for a Star Ship II Class. Any thoughts?

 

[Starscape]

It's difficult, at least for me, to throw out all ideas of post-TOS stuff to come up with something purely from the perspective of TOS. With Franz Joseph's designs and those designs of the kitbash type from TNG and beyond I guess I fall into the trap of thinking that contemporary starship designs should be made up of similar (or even identical) components. If TOS had had the budget to come up with another Starship design (and I truely wish they had) it might have been as different in design from the Enterprise as, say, the freighter seen in TAS (and more recently TOS-R).

Anyway, here's an old-ish design of mine that I think of as a TOS era frigate:

 

[Santaman]

^^Looks a little like the LUG Ranger, of course you have the nacelle's mounted differently

http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/early.html#ranger

 

[Wingsley]

You know, when I started this thread I was wondering (in the back of my mind) if anyone had an idea of what the Reliant might've looked like if it had been conceived of for Year #4 of TOS. I think you hit the Bull's Eye there, Snowscape!

I think the only thing TOS' makers might've done differently is that the connection to the saucer would've been thinner and the "secondary hull" up back would been shaped a little more like a cylinder.

Do you think they would've used the same saucer as the Enterprise, or a newer, smaller, simpler one?

 

[Starscape]

Santaman said:
^^Looks a little like the LUG Ranger, of course you have the nacelle's mounted differently

http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/early.html#ranger

Yeah, I see what you mean. Hmmm, I quite like that design, I can definitely see it as a pre-TOS ship.

Wingsley said:
You know, when I started this thread I was wondering (in the back of my mind) if anyone had an idea of what the Reliant might've looked like if it had been conceived of for Year #4 of TOS. I think you hit the Bull's Eye there, Snowscape!

Thankyou. It's probably my favourite of the TOS ships I've built up in 3D.

Wingsley said:
I think the only thing TOS' makers might've done differently is that the connection to the saucer would've been thinner and the "secondary hull" up back would been shaped a little more like a cylinder.

Yeah, I suppose a simpler the 2nd-ary hull shape would fit in better with the design of the Enterprise.

Wingsley said:
Do you think they would've used the same saucer as the Enterprise, or a newer, smaller, simpler one?

Well, I used an Enterprise type saucer for that design, with the intention it'd be the same size... kitbashing you see.


You should check out Masao's Starfleet Museum for designs that almost totally are free from any post-TOS influences.

 

[Kaiser]

The Spitfire looks Awsome Snowscape :thumbsup:

 

[Wingsley]

^^ And I love the name, too. Inspired by the WW II aircraft, no doubt.

 

[Starscape]

Thanks guys!

Wingsley said:
^^ And I love the name, too. Inspired by the WW II aircraft, no doubt.

Yep, you got it. I even designed a ship's emblem based on the wing shape of the Spitfire aircraft.

 

[Wingsley]

Care to post the emblem? I'd like to see it.

 

[Starscape]

^Sure. Here's a pic of it alongside an Enterprise emblem for scale (I copied the style of them from those shown in the Star Trek Encyclopedia).

 

[Wingsley]

Sweet!

 

[BolianAuthor]

Starscape said:
It's difficult, at least for me, to throw out all ideas of post-TOS stuff to come up with something purely from the perspective of TOS. With Franz Joseph's designs and those designs of the kitbash type from TNG and beyond I guess I fall into the trap of thinking that contemporary starship designs should be made up of similar (or even identical) components. If TOS had had the budget to come up with another Starship design (and I truely wish they had) it might have been as different in design from the Enterprise as, say, the freighter seen in TAS (and more recently TOS-R).

Anyway, here's an old-ish design of mine that I think of as a TOS era frigate:

As awkward as this design looks at first, I have to say i really like it, because it still has "clean" lines, and looks simple, and uncluttered.

 

[Wingsley]

It looks almost like the Enterprise, except that everything but the saucer has been flipped upside down to be re-oriented the exact opposite. The orientation of the dish and the nacelles is very similar.

It's a neat idea.

 

[Venardhi]

A wider and flatter secondary hull might help to smooth over the 'awkwardness'.

 

[Starscape]

BolianAdmiral said:
As awkward as this design looks at first, I have to say i really like it, because it still has "clean" lines, and looks simple, and uncluttered.

Thank you... uhm, I think!

You've got me interested, though. What do you think it is about the design that makes it look awkward?