Re-Doing the TNG-movies?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Rahul, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Greetings, Trekkies!

    Inspired by discussions in other threads where people were asked what they would change about the respective shows, I would want to ask you:


    What would you change if you were to re-do the Star Trek movies?


    Now, I want to focus mostly on the TNG-movies, because the TOS-movies, as a whole, were generally critically and commercially succesful. The TNG-movies, from Generation to Nemesis, are a bit more divisive, with First Contact being the only 'big' success, and Insurrection being debated on to this day. So, if you were to to travel back in time (with the knowledge and ressources of today), and be the creator of the TNG-era movies:

    What would you do?
    What would you change?
    What would you like to be the focus of 'your' TNG-movies?

    Basically: What would the TNG-movies look like if you were to handle them? And what were the TNG-movies you never were able too see, but wish would have happened?
     
  2. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly, if I'd known how they were going to turn out, I wouldn't have made them at all. I would have just kept producing TNG. Now I've heard people say that TNG was getting old. And yet we still had fourteen more years of Trek on the small screen between DS9, VOY, and ENT. So why couldn't we have just kept on going with TNG as opposed to, say, making a whole new show like VOY? Or hell, have the Enterprise-D be the ship lost in the Delta Quadrant with a whole new crew.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Former Democrat Premium Member

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    There would've been a Q movie on my watch. That's fer damn sure!

    I would've also added some new movie actor characters and phased out some of the less useful characters (Riker, Crusher, LaForge).
     
  4. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would have kept the original ending of Generations, changing only the way Kirk collapses after being shot in the back by Soran.

    Removed some of the attempted humor from Insurrection. Would of had some of Picard's crew at least verbally oppose his course of action, Beverly would have been a good choice, have her favor the the new medical treatment. Perhaps Worf too, have him advocate for "the needs of the many."

    Nemesis, lose the dune buggy ride, they shuttle down and explore on foot. Pick a different actor to play Shinzon, this isn't an attack on Tom Hardy, he was just wrong in the role. Lose the fall into the bottomless pit, Riker simply shoots and kills the Viceroy. Add in some of the cut scene, I really liked the new first officer scene.
     
  5. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Very interesting thoughts :)

    Here's what I would've changed:

    1.) Redesign everything in the first movie. This is something First Contact did very well: They changed the ship, the uniforms and the tone, and it became very cinematic. 'Generations' just looked like another tv episode.

    2.) Slightly re-do Data. Brent Spiner is a great actor, and Data one of the highlights of TNG. But Data is a tv-robot. Not a good movie-robot. I think he would have needed a bit of a make-up change (at least give him a bit more complex make-up). I think 'Vision' from 'Avengers: Age of Ultron' is a great movie-Data :rommie:
    Also: ditch the emotion chip! This was a weak plot point from the series no one remembered. And the sudden appereance of a 'magical chip that makes him feeel is just wrong...
    I think Data as a character was best handeled in 'Insurrection' other flaws this movie had notwithstanding...

    3.) More space adventures! I love TNG. But overall, the series always felt a bit more like a theater play than an actual documentation of 'real' events. So the movies had basically two options: 1. Make it a hard scifi movie about a specific topic. 2. Make it a space opera/adventure/action flick. Both of them would have been great. I would have loved to see more diverse planets, regions of space, aliens and creatures on a movie budget. Instead the producers tried the third way: Make it like the show. Just in the cinema...
     
  6. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because 4 movies spread over all those years, is a lot different than watching the same group of people every effin week for a total of 14 years. I mean, just look at soap operas. They suck, because it's the same drama with the same people every single day!
     
  7. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In Generations, I would've kept the opening on the Enterprise-B, though not the maiden voyage and would've dropped the TOS characters onboard. The E-B crew encounters something that defines analysis and ends up crippling the ship as they move in to investigate closer. It's noted in the log but never seen of again.

    Jump forward 78 years. We are at a ceremony for the launch of a new starship, with her proud new captain, William Riker. Some of the crew go with him, with several new/former guest characters added to round out the senior staff on both ships. As the E-D carries out a standard mission, the (for the lack of anything better at the moment) Titan is on a shakedown cruise, where she encounters the same thing the E-B did, though this time it abducts the ship. Picard drops everything to go in search of Riker.

    Malcolm McDowell was one of the highlights of GEN so I'd have him back as a antagonist (possibly still an El-Aurian), who is using the aliens/technology/phenomena/whatever it is for his own agenda--which is actually a perfectly reasonable one, but his grief-induced madness has made him take things too far.

    The E-D would be lost, though in a far more heroic fashion, saving Riker's ship (not a whole planet of nobodies we don't know or care for) whilst stopping the villain's plan which would've seen war break out with the Romulans/Cardassians/Breen if it'd been successful.

    All-in-all, something far more action-y, focusing on the TNG crew (the baton was passed in "Encounter at Farpoint", no need to do it again), which tips the hat at the last seven years. Data wouldn't get his emotional chip, Picard's family would still be alive, and more diverse crews would also be introduced (as well as Riker's ship, which I think would need to be a whole new class).
     
  8. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Nichelle Nichols 1932-2022 Rear Admiral

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    I think if I was redoing Generations, would it still have to be a studio-mandated crossover film? In that case I'd be tempted with some sort of Yesterday's Enterprise remake, with Kirk an co instead of the Ent-C crew. The end would have to be different to avoid being too similar to what we already saw on TNG.

    I would also have the Ent-E show up straight away, as well as new uniforms, to avoid the silly Ent-D crash/uniform confusion that peppered the original film.

    We could even still have Whoopi Goldberg.

    I think First Contact is still a pretty solid film, and is in less need of fixing.

    Insurrection is a mess. I think it was better a few drafts before Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner stuck their noses in, when it was a bit more Heart of Darkness and a little less Police Academy.

    I would say less humour, and keep the part where Picard was forced to kill Data, giving Picard a more personal arc for the duration. I still like the idea of a Federation conspiracy, but if there is any rescuing of planet inhabitants, for the love of God, make us care about them. And make it more than 600.

    Ru'Afo wasn't an interesting villain, and the Ba'Ku/Son'A were bland.

    Nemesis, again, is a mess. If I've killed Data off in the last film like Brent Spiner was always bleeting on about, we certainly don't need him here. Again lose the poorly timed humour, the pointless Argo scene, and I'd be tempted to lose the Remans too, making the Romulans more of a focus.

    Actually all of that just sounds like window dressing. I think the film was fundamentally flawed from the get-go and they should just go with an entirely different story.
     
  9. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But that's not what I meant when I brought up those 14 years. The reason why Trek was on TV for that long was precisely because there were three different shows with three different casts. But two of those shows took place on a ship, and one show took place on a space station half the time and a ship half the time, all in all pretty much no different than TNG. My idea was to just continue on with TNG for those fourteen years with new cast changes every five years or so. That's why I made the comment about the Ent-D in the Delta Quadrant with a whole new crew.
     
  10. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    I would have told Stewart and Spiner they're actors, not writers.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Former Democrat Premium Member

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    +1
     
  12. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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    Good idea. :vulcan: :techman:
     
  13. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I love some of these suggestions!

    As for me, I would have waited at least 10 years, possibly longer before starting on any TNG film. One of the things that made TOS films so magical was the fact that fans had waited so long, the actors physically changed, styles changed, some aspects of filmmaking changed, etc.

    Now, I would have also spread out the spin-offs instead of allowing them to overlap. That's a digression from the topic, but I believe one effects the other. Oversaturation was a problem - oversaturation of Trek, overuse of the same producers/writers, etc.

    Having said that - considering the films were released as they were at the times that they were...here goes my changes:

    Generations - I actually loved many things about this film. The Nexus just didn't work. It's what allowed the writers to bridge the generations, but also what allowed for so many major plot holes. I think someone here suggested this at one point: if we're really looking at a blank canvas, let's save the "Yesterday's Enterprise" story for film (Generations) instead of television, just do the B instead of the C and perhaps allow some TOS characters to be a part of the B crew for some purpose. Yar could fall in love with Kirk (LOL). Kirk would die because history demanded it, not because he was brought out of a dream world to help Picard who made a poor choice timing-wise. I think Kirk's death would make sense and actually be honorable, something both crews and the audience could fully mourn prior to the execution of the plan.

    First Contact - I loved this one. Honestly, it's second on my list of Trek films overall. I loved the writing, the action, the music, the casting, everything. One thing I would have changed - Lily would really be the brains behind the ship and she would be the one who actually negotiated with the Vulcans after the initial handshake even though history records Cochrane as the real hero. Cochrane, feeling guilty hearing about his statue and everything, would have insisted that Lily engage the warp engine instead. I did like the B story (or A story) with Lily and Picard, and I think there should be some way to keep that in the film somehow, but I just felt Lily should have been revealed to have a larger role than history recorded. It just seemed like that should happen, or some sort of revelation other than Cochrane is a drunk.

    Insurrection - Of all of the TNG films, this one felt like more of a TV episode than a film. I think it would have been perhaps a beloved 2-parter, but it didn't work for me as a film. I would have scrapped the story and suggested they try to salvage some of the ideas and use it on DS9 or VOY. Speaking of DS9 - I think something tying together DS9's war arc with TNG would have been good at this point in the film series. I know, I know, DS9 had declining viewership, so why do it? If they could have created a plot that only briefly involved the DS9 cast, or even just one or two, but perhaps involved an important battle that occurred between the 6th and 7th seasons of DS9, perhaps generating some new interest in DS9 for its final season. For me, the war arc on DS9 was way more exciting than Insurrection and I would have used the heck out of it for a TNG film. So many good things to work with - like the changeling witch hunt within the Federation being just a small example. So many possibilities. They could have used the last few episodes of DS9 season 6 to set up the TNG film (and promoted it as such), then used the start of season 7 as the aftermath. Summer DS9 re-runs could have then been promoted as "get to know DS9 for the first time! We're showing you the most important episodes of the series this summer!" Based on what then occurred in the ratings in season 7 after all of that (in my theoretical alternate timeline), they could then determine whether DS9 would maybe even make it to the big screen. But the DS9 idea aside, certainly a whole new script for this film would have been better than what we got.

    Nemesis - I've said this twice before on this board, but hands-down the biggest improvement this film could use is to have Patrick Stewart as Shinzon. This film would be improved by 2000% in my book. I'd actually care about the character of Shinzon. It would have more shock value. Stewart would have relished it. And for the love of Pete, better make-up and lighting for Marina Sirtis, especially in the wedding scenes. Jeesh. Also, a more up-beat ending. What a downer. I'm in the minority though - I like a lot of the film.
     
  14. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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    Agree. :techman: It would have been an awesome film.:vulcan:
     
  15. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    They couldn't do that because Trek was one of the hottest entertainment properties of 1994. They had one hit show going off with big ratings, one reasonably successful show on the air, a new show coming on a new network, and a movie coming on the fall. There was a TON of Trek production going on at paramount and many entertainment mags of the time were stuffed with Trek.
    They had to strike while the iron was hot.
     
  16. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks :)

    Star Trek: First Contact
    All-in-all not much would really change. There would be the E-E and the Second Borg Incursion, but they always planned to go back in time and assimilate Earth before Starfleet. In the Battle of Sector 001, the "Titan" would be on the frontlines, as well as the Defiant, when the E-E shows up as the fleet's line is crumbling. The Cube launches the Sphere on its special mission.

    From here the story splits into two time zones: the first in 'present' dealing with the Borg attack and assimilation of the ship, the second in the 'past' having to help get Earth's first warp flight back on track. My original thinking was to have the Enterprise go back in time, but Picard has to face the Queen so he'd be leading the battle, whilst Riker and crew go back to repair the damage the Borg caused.

    Much of the film follows what we saw: Riker, La Forge and Troi on 21st century Earth; Picard goes on a revenge mission, whilst Data is enticed towards the Collective. The warp flight is a success and the Borg is stopped.
     
  17. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was responding to the OP - what I would have done (admittedly with hindsight bias), not what they did (or "had" to do).
     
  18. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    GEN
    The biggest problem with this is the Nexus - the writers didn't really figure out what it was, how it works, what it meant to the story. Replace Guinan with Spock and it would make more sense, and tie the two series together better than having Kirk turn up as a "special guest" at the end.

    FC
    A different director. The stuff with the Borg is just not nearly creepy enough, so I think a stronger vision (and visual sense) is required.

    INS
    The plot is fatally flawed because the Baku are actually a sophisticated, warp-capable species, not helpless primitives. Either make them genuinely primitive (and the Sona were equipped by meddling aliens), or make them like the Organians in TOS episode "Errand of mercy", being undermined by outcast beings like the Pah Wraiths. Also, a different director.

    NEM
    1. Fix that bloody photo of "young Picard" by thinning the lips in photoshop.
    2. Re-edit the big battle so it doesn't drag (most importantly, cut Riker's irrelevant fight with the Reman).
    3. Reshoot Picard's showdown with Shinzon and rescue by Data so it's actually dramatic.
    4. Remove the jarring bedroom mindrape scene and replace it with the deleted elevator scene. Put this near the battle scene so it's clear Shinzon is seeking a tactical advantage, not just being a creep.


    This is a problem. There are just too many characters to service in a movie, and some are definitely weaker than others. Problem is, whoever you drop there will be an outcry. Crusher would be missed least; Troi is the most useless. And it strikes me as weird how much LaForge was used in the movies compared to Worf, when Worf is a more interesting character played by a better actor...
     
  19. ihno

    ihno Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Star Trek VII

    This movie is bad is so many ways, but the main problems for me are Shatner and Picard.

    1. Shatner
    It's a cheesy Shatner show. The scene in which Kirk died is unbearable, as well as most of the Nexus scenes. The former movies showed an aged Kirk, there was nothing left of it. It felt like wathching a parody.

    I have also heard that Shatner's ego made a real "meeting" of the generations impossible. In this way the title is a cheat. It's "Kirk meeting Picard" nothing more.

    I wanted a movie with Nimoy and the others in it and a proper meeting of the Enterprise A and D. Back in the day before the internet there were Star Trek papers ;) and I have read one and it was about how the movie could have been.

    2. Picard:
    I don't like Picard in the movie.
    This terrible whining about the end of his family history... he doesn't mourn for his nephew and brother, no he whines about the end of the family history, which is full of extraordinary personalites. Of course there was no chicken-thief in the proud history of his family...

    This goes on with Picard's "family" in the Nexus. How backwardy is that guy? I can't remember if the children dropped into curtseys/took some bows but it would have fit the conservative scene nicely.

    I think that both changes would have led into a total new movie,

    Star Trek VIII: it's okay. ;)

    Star Trek IX
    : needs a total rewrite, the script was boring.

    Star Trek X: OH MY! I've ranted enough already so I won't go into that. I have only watched the movie once and I wanted to leave the cinema. My most "fave" scene was Picard in the Argo buggy. That was even worse than Picard in Star Trek VII.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015
  20. SPCTRE

    SPCTRE Badass Admiral

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    Simply do NEM again, but really focus on the post-apocalyptic space car chase sequences.