Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 finale)

[Broccoli]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

As with S:TAS, it's a case where the well-known promotional title differs from the official title. The Donner film was officially just Superman. (To Broccoli: IMDb says TAS was officially just Superman, though I admit I haven't corroborated it.)

And you might still be right. It is just everything that I have read about the production of the series has indicated the opposite.

What's interesting about the title Superman, though, is that it doesn't seem to need to be represented onscreen by those eight letters. Neither the '88 nor the '96 animated series ever showed the word "Superman" onscreen in its main titles, though the former did have it spoken by the announcer. And I believe the onscreen title to Superman Returns was just "Returns" over the S-shield. Batman Forever did the same, using the character's insignia as a sort of pictograph for his name, and Batman: TAS didn't have an onscreen title either.

The in-movie title for Superman Returns was Superman Returns (although the S-shield was shown before it). In the trailers it just showed the S-shield and the word "returns".

When S:TAS was combined with The New Batman Adventures, the title was shown, however as The New Batman/Superman Adventures. But that is kind of a different case.

However, you are right. A character like Superman is so iconic, that all you need to do is throw up the S-shield and everyone will know what it is.

Kyle Gallner's film career would make Impulse appearances infrequent.

Yes...the success that that is...

I kid. I kid. Seriously though, many people online seem to want a Justice League spin-off. Personally, I don't think it is that good of an idea. I think the reason the appearances of other characters work in Smallville is that is given in limited amounts.

I suppose it would be like The Lone Gunmen. The characters in The X-Files were great and provided the comic relief when needed. On their own, they didn't really work.

Also, keep in mind the context. At the time that pilot was made, the comics' JLA had been without the big three for over a decade (or at least they had been until shortly before the pilot was made). So the pilot was based more on the era of Justice League International, which is why it was played for comedy and featured Martian Manhunter, Guy Gardner, Fire, and Ice on the team. It had been a long time since the JLA was expected to include Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, so the pilot's creators would've probably felt no need to justify their absence.

The early 90s was a strange time for JLA in the comics. The Big Three were never a part of the team...unless they were needed for a story. Then suddenly, they were active members.

Of course that all changed in 1996/1997 with JLA launched under the direction of Grant Morrison where he brought the JLA back to their roots with the "classic" members.

 

[DarthPipes]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

It's a shame really, because it'd be great to see a weekly Superman show on TV again. Plus, if I'm honest, I'd be much more interested in a TV show, than another movie at this point.

I agree. At this point, they could accomplish more on TV instead of having another big budget movie where Superman doesn't fight anybody.

 

[Jetfire]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

This is just my opinion and will get shot down...

I think a Superman TV series would work if it had a period feel...maybe post WW2...almost dream like. It is hard to fit Superman in with 2010 with out him losing some of the charm that makes the character great...look at Smallville...there seems to be this need to make him darker or the setting darker than just doing a Superman story. I would also turn away from making him a Christ like figure...like SR and Smallville has done...just make him a hero, everyone's pal...he doesn't need to appear/be God like...even though he is in the eyes of the public. The stories should be inspiring the best in humanity...not just some soap opera drama freak of the week non-sense. I am rambling an need to lay down...being sick sucks.

 

[Checkmate]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

I'd rather the show finally die and go off the air so that a few years from now, we could stand the chance of getting a real Superman story with some actually talented writers and main lead.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

On the other hand, I choose to think of the title these days as a reference to Lois's nickname for Clark (which, by the way, this show cribbed from Superman: The Animated Series, just as it cribbed Jimmy's "CK" nickname for Clark from Lois and Clark). So it's not a show about Smallville, Kansas anymore, it's a show about Clark "Smallville" Kent.

I suppose I never really thought about it like that.

A lot of people think of the show's title like that since the actual town doesn't figure so prominently anymore.

I think a Superman TV series would work if it had a period feel...

The teaser for the 9th season finale had a very retro feel. That's the next best thing.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdOpwV4eCqA[/yt]

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

As for Welling, if he doesn't want to do it, chuck him and get somebody else.

I'd accept a re-cast character line-up if it was absolutely necessary to get a proper Superman show off the ground.

Ugh! No recasting.

 

[Servo]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

As for Welling, if he doesn't want to do it, chuck him and get somebody else.

I'd accept a re-cast character line-up if it was absolutely necessary to get a proper Superman show off the ground.

Ugh! No recasting.

I meant if it was a Superman show that wasn't a direct continuation of Smallville. If you're going to connect the two, then keep the same actors (if possible). If it's a whole new Superman show, then feel free to re-cast. Just make sure that you either secure Allison Mack, or don't have the Chloe character at all.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

^ If it's unrelated to Smallville and Chloe is included, I'd recast her as well. Not doing so would be as distracting as in-show recasting.

 

[Broccoli]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

^ If it's unrelated to Smallville and Chloe is included, I'd recast her as well. Not doing so would be as distracting as in-show recasting.

I agree. And lets face it, Allison Mack really isn't that good of an actor where no one will be able to fill her shoes.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

Kyle Gallner's film career would make Impulse appearances infrequent.

Yes...the success that that is...

I wouldn't know about the quality or popularity of his work, since I don't see many movies and I don't think I've seen any that he was in. All I know is that IMDb shows an awful lot of recent and in-production motion picture credits for him, which presumably explains his absence from Smallville. Whether or not his work is critically successful, he seems to be in demand with filmmakers.

I think a Superman TV series would work if it had a period feel...maybe post WW2...almost dream like. It is hard to fit Superman in with 2010 with out him losing some of the charm that makes the character great...

I think eventually it'll be hard to do a version of Superman that isn't a period piece. I mean, print newspapers already seem to be a dying medium, phone booths have almost ceased to exist, and with advancing medical technology, there may come a time when eyeglasses are pretty much obsolete. Also, advances in facial-recognition technology would make it pretty easy to crack a superhero's secret identity. Not to mention what global warming might do to the climate in Kansas, possibly rendering it unsuitable for farming.

^ If it's unrelated to Smallville and Chloe is included, I'd recast her as well. Not doing so would be as distracting as in-show recasting.

Has that ever happened before -- a character original to one adaptation of a superhero comic being adopted by another adaptation without having already been incorporated into the comic? Harley Quinn comes close, since she appeared as the featured villain in the Birds of Prey TV series only a few years after she was added to the comics continuity, but that still doesn't make the cut. Same with X-23, Wolverine's teenage female clone introduced in X-Men Evolution; she was added to the comics a couple of years before she made her first computer-game appearance.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

I think eventually it'll be hard to do a version of Superman that isn't a period piece. I mean, print newspapers already seem to be a dying medium...

As a newspaper reporter, I love hearing it when people declare newspapers as a "dying medium."

Print newspapers may slowly be closing or laying off employees but it's hardly dying, especially in the Bay Area. The newspaper, and by extension the business model, is evolving. In Palo Alto, there is a newspaper war between three major local newspapers, including the one I work for. There is also a non-profit upstart journalism project, The Bay Area Citizen, that will partner up with the New York Times for its Friday and Saturday Bay Area editions.

There are also tons of alternative press out here — the San Francisco Bay Guardian being the best (but I'm biased; I worked for them).

Still papers are losing money and the model will have to evolve, adapt. But I don't see them ever going away since people still like to hold something in their hands and read over morning coffee.

Perhaps more homegrown local papers are the future rather than the conglomerate-owned papers like the San Francisco Chronicle or the Sacramento Bee.

 

[Broccoli]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

I think eventually it'll be hard to do a version of Superman that isn't a period piece. I mean, print newspapers already seem to be a dying medium...

As a newspaper reporter, I love hearing it when people declare newspapers as a "dying medium."

I agree. It's ignorance more than anything else.

Remember when people thought newspapers were dying off in the age of TV news, so the writers misguidedly had Clark become a TV reporter back in the late 70s/early 80s? Yeah, that lasted.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

Okay, conceded. Still, the original idea behind Clark Kent going to work as a newspaper reporter was that it was the best way for him to find out about crises as soon as possible. These days, while newspapers still have their value, they're not the fastest way of getting information. How often, in Superman shows and movies (and maybe even the comics), do we see scenes where Clark and Lois are in the Planet newsroom and Jimmy or somebody says, "Hey, look at what's on TV!" in order to alert them to the crisis du jour? That makes the newsroom less of a means to an end and more simply a neutral setting. If you go with the idea that Clark chose his career on the basis of getting the most up-to-the-minute information possible, it makes sense to have him go into TV news or something online instead of print journalism.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

Okay, conceded. Still, the original idea behind Clark Kent going to work as a newspaper reporter was that it was the best way for him to find out about crises as soon as possible. These days, while newspapers still have their value, they're not the fastest way of getting information. How often, in Superman shows and movies (and maybe even the comics), do we see scenes where Clark and Lois are in the Planet newsroom and Jimmy or somebody says, "Hey, look at what's on TV!" in order to alert them to the crisis du jour? That makes the newsroom less of a means to an end and more simply a neutral setting. If you go with the idea that Clark chose his career on the basis of getting the most up-to-the-minute information possible, it makes sense to have him go into TV news or something online instead of print journalism.

One of the things that Mark Waid did right in Birthright was having the Daily Planet use a multimedia platform alongside its print publication. Such a newsroom could address the getting the up-to-date crisis in a timely manner.

In fact, both papers and broadcast depend on wires and police/fire scanners for newsgathering and getting timely information, something that has been rarely seen in the comics and completely absent in the film adaptations.

And while papers may print something that happened the next day, they still get pretty much the same info at the same time as broadcast. For instance, my paper got wind of a possible murder-suicide at the same time as all the other papers and TV stations. Yet I beat the competition — other papers and TV stations — to the scene.

Or the reason for Clark going into news could be altered slightly, almost in the vain of Birthright. He could go into print journalism simply because he's good at it and enjoys it. Or it can become Clark's means of investigating people and places where it would be difficult to do as Superman, which is something the films have never done but other live-action and animated adaptations have.

Moreover, Clark Kent can go places that Superman can't. Something I feel has yet to be properly portrayed in the movies.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

^^Hmm, okay. Good points.

Still, I think the rest of what I said about the future still holds merit. It's already hard to justify successfully keeping a secret identity in the age of DNA testing and ubiquitous video surveillance. That and other superhero tropes are going to get even harder to justify over time. At the very least, it would be easier to tell a classic superhero story in a period setting.

 

[Servo]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

Moreover, Clark Kent can go places that Superman can't. Something I feel has yet to be properly portrayed in the movies.

See, that's what made Lois & Clark such an enjoyable show; they hit the balance between when to focus on Superman, and when to focus on Clark Kent.
Clark was much more than a secret identity. As an investigative reporter, he could go places, and follow lines of investigation that Superman couldn't. The story of the week often relied as much upon Clark's investigative ability, as it did on Superman's abilities.

 

[DarthPipes]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

Okay, conceded. Still, the original idea behind Clark Kent going to work as a newspaper reporter was that it was the best way for him to find out about crises as soon as possible. These days, while newspapers still have their value, they're not the fastest way of getting information. How often, in Superman shows and movies (and maybe even the comics), do we see scenes where Clark and Lois are in the Planet newsroom and Jimmy or somebody says, "Hey, look at what's on TV!" in order to alert them to the crisis du jour? That makes the newsroom less of a means to an end and more simply a neutral setting. If you go with the idea that Clark chose his career on the basis of getting the most up-to-the-minute information possible, it makes sense to have him go into TV news or something online instead of print journalism.

Good post. That's one of the things with Superman, the industry he works for is dying out. He would need to work for something that gets the news much quicker. Daily Planet being bought out by a Rupert Murdock-type makes more sense.

It would be in Clark's interest to stay off-camera though.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

Part of me is starting to wish that the last 10 years of Smallville have all just been one big setup. They spend 10 years giving us a generally mediocre show, that has flashes of brilliance every now and again, and constantly teases us with Supes mythology, and by the time that show ends, the fans are literally dying for a legitimate weekly Superman show - Red and Blues, secret identity, Lex Luthor, the whole nine yards.

What better time to release one?

It's been joked often on the internet that Smallville should have been re-named "Metropolis" by now, seeing as the town of Smallville barely features in it anymore. Maybe that's not such a bad idea. For all people on the internet can moan about Welling's acting, or the writing, I think if they ditched the whole "No Flights, No Tights" mantra that seems to have plagued Smallville for the last 10 years, and they were allowed to cut loose and make a full on Superman show without tip-toeing around the mythology, I think they'd be capable of making a damn good show. It probably wouldn't hurt for a show like that to have access to a larger budget, but I think they could pull it off.

It would be a bold move to "evolve" the show, and re-brand it from "Superman - The Early Years" into "Superman", but one that I think would really pay off.

Basically, if the rumours of next season featuring Darkseid/Apokolips are true, then it would be an ideal opportunity to turn Clark into Superman. I mean, Apokolips would be such a massive threat to Earth - much more so than Zod's army ever were - that Clark has to fully embrace his destiny in order to defeat Darkseid. I'd love to see Clark, in the season 10 finale, pull on the Superman outfit, and give a Doctor Who-esque "This planet is protected" speech, before leading the JSA/JLA heroes against Darkseid.

After that, use whatever maguffin to create Clark's dual identity (hell, they've been using them for 10 years, why stop now?), and re-brand the show as Metropolis season 1, with the same actors, bringing us a proper Superman show.

I'm well aware that it would never happen in a million years. There'd be far too many things getting in the way of making it happen - budget constraints, the alleged fact that Welling won't wear the suit, the difficulty of getting the actors to commit to maybe another 5-10 years of the show if it's successful, the rumours of a Nolan-produced Superman reboot on the big screen... etc

Hell, I can dream, can't I?

I haven't read the whole thread so if this has already been said I apologize.

Smallville already is a Superman show. It has always been a Superman show. It was never a prequel, except possibly in the first season or two.

Smallville has Clark Kent interacting with every character from the regular Superman mythos. It has all the same villains, the same love interests and the same sorts of plots, with a heavier dose of angsty romance maybe, but still. Smallville cannot be set up for a Superman show because as a Superman show it would have almost nowhere to go - it is already a pretty thorough treatment of the Superman mythos.

In short, don't get hung up on the suit and the name "Superman" - they just aren't a part of this version of the story, which doesn't make it any less a legitimate version of this particular pop culture mythology.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

^ We've already seen glimpses of the blue and red suit and there is evidence that he will be called "Superman", but you're right, they're already playing out the mythos without him actually being Superman.

 

[Servo]

Re: Re-branding Smallville as a Superman show (spoilers up to S9 final

Smallville already is a Superman show. It has always been a Superman show. It was never a prequel, except possibly in the first season or two.

But that's the thing, it isn't. It's a Clark Kent show. It uses established characters from the Superman and DC mythos in general, but the show has always been about Clark Kent. For all it teases and sets things up, this show is not about Superman. It's about how Clark becomes Superman.

Smallville has Clark Kent interacting with every character from the regular Superman mythos. It has all the same villains, the same love interests and the same sorts of plots, with a heavier dose of angsty romance maybe, but still. Smallville cannot be set up for a Superman show because as a Superman show it would have almost nowhere to go - it is already a pretty thorough treatment of the Superman mythos.

There are plenty of places to go. They've already set up the fact that Lex is alive, and will play a major role in the future. There are plenty of villains which have appeared throughout Smallville's run that it would be easy to bring back. Hell, they even set up Doomsday for a future return - buried in the Earth, as he was at the start of The Death of Superman, waiting to bust back out one day for the big smackdown.

As I said, I know it would never happen, but it's fun to speculate. I am, however, serious when I say it's time for a proper Superman show. And by proper, I mean no hang-ups about "flights and tights", and no angsty teenage bullshit.