Don't remind me. I hated that. Makes me think that that (and with Santa's comment at the end) can't be actually how they part ways. If it is, Moffat will be in my bad book for a long time.
Rate 8x12: Death In Heaven
- Thread starter Lonemagpie
- Start date
^ Moff did say it wouldn't be answered this series.
As for this episode. A bit of a mess. It had some interesting and fun moments like the Doctor diving for the Tardis in the sky. Can't believe they actually did that.
But those graveyard scenes with the Cybermen coming out of people's graves and the Brigadier being a Cyberman felt really awkward. So now we have the Brigadier flying around out there as a Cyberman? Can't we let the man rest in peace? I thought there was a nice send off to him already done in one of Matt Smith's season finales.
Other parts of the episode felt too talky with the discussion yet again about whether the Doctor is a good man or not. We've done this before.
What I wanted was some answers. At least tell me how missy escaped.
I gave it 3 out of 5, but was being generous. Most of this episode did not work for me.
The setup was just too kooky. So, all of that of the corpses being saved in water was in the present, the whole 3W corporation and everything? Right.
Rain that brings the dead back to life, but as Cybermen?
The Clara Oswald as Doctor was a pointless red herring. I'm glad she wasn't the Doctor but it was pointless.
It was a waste killing Osgood. Boat ONe or whatever was a waste. Nice setup with the new protocols for a planetary President. But, it ended up being pointless for the story.
That was the wrap up for season long arc with Danny vs the Doctor? A waste. A wrap up for the Doctor's am I good man? Waste. That whole show down with the Doctor, Master, and Danny was just weird. Really, the Master was giving the Doctor an army? Just too kooky for me. Really makes no sense whatsoever.
The ending was a farce. WTF was that all about? Clara pretending like she was back with Danny?! The Doctor leaving her behind for some reason that I didn't catch on to. It was just too stupid. And, I'm not including the Father Christmas part into that assessment.
There were a couple of parts that were touching. Danny sending the boy back was a great touch. And seeing the Brigadier Cyberman was touching too. Although it also reminded me what a stupid move it was to not just have Nicholas Courtney return to DW while he was alive. Instead we had to pretend it was him inside that costume.
I don't blame Moffat for that, but he's repeating history with Ian/William Russell.
This story just didn't work for me. Very disappointing.
Mr Awe
The setup was just too kooky. So, all of that of the corpses being saved in water was in the present, the whole 3W corporation and everything? Right.
Rain that brings the dead back to life, but as Cybermen?
The Clara Oswald as Doctor was a pointless red herring. I'm glad she wasn't the Doctor but it was pointless.
It was a waste killing Osgood. Boat ONe or whatever was a waste. Nice setup with the new protocols for a planetary President. But, it ended up being pointless for the story.
That was the wrap up for season long arc with Danny vs the Doctor? A waste. A wrap up for the Doctor's am I good man? Waste. That whole show down with the Doctor, Master, and Danny was just weird. Really, the Master was giving the Doctor an army? Just too kooky for me. Really makes no sense whatsoever.
The ending was a farce. WTF was that all about? Clara pretending like she was back with Danny?! The Doctor leaving her behind for some reason that I didn't catch on to. It was just too stupid. And, I'm not including the Father Christmas part into that assessment.
There were a couple of parts that were touching. Danny sending the boy back was a great touch. And seeing the Brigadier Cyberman was touching too. Although it also reminded me what a stupid move it was to not just have Nicholas Courtney return to DW while he was alive. Instead we had to pretend it was him inside that costume.
I don't blame Moffat for that, but he's repeating history with Ian/William Russell.
This story just didn't work for me. Very disappointing.
Mr Awe
I can't believe how many people didn't understand the ending. They were clearly lying to each other to let the other one off the hook and do what they thought was right albeit, failing. The Doctor thought she found a way to save Danny because she was wearing the bracelet. So, the Doctor created some story about finding Gallefrey allowing his friend to finally move on with her life. Clara, believing the lie, lets him think that, so she won't make him feel guilty for going back home. It was The Gift of the Magi, by O. Henry. This won't be how they leave it, but it was bittersweet.
I will say that, this gave them a nice out and might be a red hearing in itself. We're going into the Christmas Special and we have yet to get an announcement one way or another about the Companion next season. So, I think Clara might still be around. I just can't picture her leaving long term like this.
I will say that, this gave them a nice out and might be a red hearing in itself. We're going into the Christmas Special and we have yet to get an announcement one way or another about the Companion next season. So, I think Clara might still be around. I just can't picture her leaving long term like this.
C Miller, I got what was intended, it was just stupid after how much they've bonded this season. They supposedly know each other very well.
Oh, and was it explained why Missy choose Clara? I heard the control freak line. Was it just that Clara could get the Doctor to go after Danny when he died? If so, why? To bring him to the action? I think the cybermen invasion would've done that by itself! And, does that imply she arranged Danny's death?
The scripting was pretty slipshod in this one.
Mr Awe
Oh, and was it explained why Missy choose Clara? I heard the control freak line. Was it just that Clara could get the Doctor to go after Danny when he died? If so, why? To bring him to the action? I think the cybermen invasion would've done that by itself! And, does that imply she arranged Danny's death?
The scripting was pretty slipshod in this one.
Mr Awe
For those wondering if this was Clara's last episode, she has been confirmed to return for the Christmas special.
That's disappointing to read. I had hoped that silly, unnecessary business had been dropped.
Has Moffet gone too far up his own crack-in-the-universe this time?
Bloody stupid timey-wimey madness!
So, the Master escapes Gallifrey after it and him/herself are saved, then enacts an incredibly overcomplicated, beyond batshit insane plan to save Gallifrey and give the Doctor an army and make Clara cry?
When the fuck did she realise she was the one who had to make sure Clara had to be there to save Gallifrey after she'd escaped a saved Gallifrey?
And was anyone else a tad disappointed we didn't at least get a true Capaldi/Tucker rant against Missy for the all the terrible crap she'd done?
"I liked you better when you were blond!"
Bloody stupid timey-wimey madness!
So, the Master escapes Gallifrey after it and him/herself are saved, then enacts an incredibly overcomplicated, beyond batshit insane plan to save Gallifrey and give the Doctor an army and make Clara cry?
When the fuck did she realise she was the one who had to make sure Clara had to be there to save Gallifrey after she'd escaped a saved Gallifrey?
And was anyone else a tad disappointed we didn't at least get a true Capaldi/Tucker rant against Missy for the all the terrible crap she'd done?
"I liked you better when you were blond!"
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I was so mixed on that episode. On one hand, I think the heart was there in the right place, summing up the theme of this season, was The Doctor a good man. On that end, it wrapped that up really well, but I can't help but wonder if this episode should have been a movie considering the set up. I turned on subtitles when Missy explained the whole Clara thing but it felt like such a weak explanation and a good example of this episode as a whole: it felt anti climatic.
"Yes! I am a good man because I won't take the cyberconverted human race into space to kick over all the space bastard's ant hills!"
Asshole.
A good man wouldn't have to think about it.
Asshole.
A good man wouldn't have to think about it.
I could have sworn he said it would be answered this season. But I guess I'm wrong.
You know, to be honest, Moffat is really pissing me off as a showrunner. First, he completely forgets about Jenny even though he asked RTD to keep her alive, then we had that whole BS with Amy's Crack (it means this, no it means that), the nonsense with the Silent/Silence, leaving things not resolved for years, the end of the 50th where it looks like the Doctor is going in search for Gallifrey only for him to do absolutely nothing to further his search, etc etc.
I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg, but the sins of Moffat continue.
And don't get me started on Santa f**king Claus. Groan!
Capaldi did say it would be addressed but not answered.
For like a two parter I think they could get away with it. Clara or someone saves the day again.
I want Clara to come back next season. I think Jenna Coleman is positively fantastic and the character they've developed over the last two seasons has been really a pleasure to watch. She certainly isn't your typical Companion who is just there to look pretty and ask the questions so the Doctor can explain the plot. She is quick on her feet, resourceful, and while not as smart as the Doctor, she can contend with him intellectually. She's almost like Donna in a lot of ways. It's really a breath of fresh air.
Personally, I'd like to see her lead a TARDIS crew reminiscent of the old Hartnell era. Have her take Barbara's position, find another person to act as a Science-y type, and then a younger ingenue. I think that would work really well with this more aloof Doctor. Maybe have them gather the rest over the course of the first few episodes. And maybe have one be an alien and one be from any time/place than modern day England.
Just some thoughts. I just don't see Clara out of the game because of this.
Personally, I'd like to see her lead a TARDIS crew reminiscent of the old Hartnell era. Have her take Barbara's position, find another person to act as a Science-y type, and then a younger ingenue. I think that would work really well with this more aloof Doctor. Maybe have them gather the rest over the course of the first few episodes. And maybe have one be an alien and one be from any time/place than modern day England.
Just some thoughts. I just don't see Clara out of the game because of this.
If they did, I prefer the Master stopped him because the Doctor winning would keep him from ruling the universe.
I still don't see it happening, though.
The wonderful nod to the Brigadier and (to a much lesser extent) the lying-through-their-teeth-to-each-other ending aside, the episode was all over the place. Much like the season as a whole.
It would be great to be able to believe we're finally rid of the Master...sorry, Missy...err, whatever...but I doubt very much that Moffat or anyone else would have the backbone to get rid of the character. Pity. The Brigadier-is-a-Cyberman bit was awful, as was the flying Cybermen notion, and I'm completely over the entire the-Doctor-is-an-arsehole concept that's run through so much of new Who.
Aside from Clara becoming likeable and interesting (at last) and a few good to great moments from Capaldi, this season hasn't done much for me at all. No matter. To each their own.
It would be great to be able to believe we're finally rid of the Master...sorry, Missy...err, whatever...but I doubt very much that Moffat or anyone else would have the backbone to get rid of the character. Pity. The Brigadier-is-a-Cyberman bit was awful, as was the flying Cybermen notion, and I'm completely over the entire the-Doctor-is-an-arsehole concept that's run through so much of new Who.
Aside from Clara becoming likeable and interesting (at last) and a few good to great moments from Capaldi, this season hasn't done much for me at all. No matter. To each their own.
