Ranks and Roles in TrekLit Starfleet

[Shamrock Holmes]

There are a couple of things I've wondered for a while about ranks in Starfleet, and three TrekLit characters have focused it in for me, specifically Commanders Elias Vaughn and Benjamin Sisko and Captain Sonya Gomez.

1) Vaughn and Sisko were both in permanent command of Starfleet vessels despite not being Captains (I can't recall whether on ship Vaughn is refered to as Commander or Captain in direct address).

2) Sonya Gomez IIRC still wears a gold-shirt operations uniform as a Ship's Captain.

Now, the questions I have are these:

1) Is it possible/likely that ships with small crews like the Defiant-class might commonly be commanded by Commanders or even Lt Commanders, particularly if flagged for short to medium range missions within Federation territory? Saving the Captains for the larger captial ships?

2) Is it likely that more 'cross-promoted' COs particularly on specialist ships like the SCE Fleet and Starfleet Medicals hospital ships might continue to wear their original department color rather than change to Command red?

I'd be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on the subject.

Shamrock Holmes

 

[shanejayell]

*not a expert in any way, but....*

I suppose that in ships that specialize in certain areas, a specialist would retain their uniform becoming captain. I recall Beverly Crusher in the final Next Gen episode was a captain of a medical ship and wore blue.

I think.

 

[JB2005]

^No crusher wore red, sorry!

In the navies today you'll get Commanders who...umm...command, ships so I'd guess it's possible in Star Trek, particularly with the lack of Captains post-destiny...

 

[Christopher]

The commanding officer of any ship should be called "Captain" regardless of his or her rank. "Captain" is both a rank and a post, which gets confusing. Generally, in real life, officers of captain rank are commanders of capital ships, while smaller ships such as destroyers or corvettes may be captained by officers of lower rank. Since the Defiant is basically a corvette rather than a capital ship, it makes sense that its commanding officer would be of commander rank; but that officer should still be addressed by the title "Captain" (as seen with Jadzia Dax in "Behind the Lines").

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Is it possible/likely that ships with small crews like the Defiant-class might commonly be commanded by Commanders or even Lt Commanders, particularly if flagged for short to medium range missions within Federation territory? Saving the Captains for the larger captial ships?

That's the way it should be, yes.

In 'real life', a ship as small as the Defiant - it had, what, about 47 crewmembers? - would probably be commanded by a Lieutenant Commander. (Worf often did this - but not always. AFAIK, he should have been named permanent CO of the ship, because his battlefield experience *and* his rank were perfectly suited.)

A Commander would probably be the skipper of a slightly larger ship, maybe 70-80 crew.

IMHO, officers of Captain rank should be reserved for ships at least the size of Voyager. Any smaller ship, and it would seem like overkill.

 

[Stevil2001]

2) Is it likely that more 'cross-promoted' COs particularly on specialist ships like the SCE Fleet and Starfleet Medicals hospital ships might continue to wear their original department color rather than change to Command red?

Though it seems possible, A Singular Destiny establishes that Gomez is the only starship captain who wears gold in the Fleet.

 

[ShinRa Actual]

Just to give a few more examples to Christopher's response (using the US Navy as an exmaple), during WWII most smaller combatants were commanded by Lieutenants and Commanders, most notably the large numbers of Destroyer Escorts, and Submarines. Captains generally held 'major' commands of Cruisers, Battleships, and Carriers, or as squadron commanders for the smaller vessels. This continues to the current navy; Most Destroyers and Attack Submarines are commanded by full Commanders. In general, the higher the rank, the more people that person has been entrusted to command; At the highest end of the spectrum you have the Admirals and the number of people under their command.

The title of "captain" rightfully belongs to any person who's in command of a ship. How much use that title gets usually depends on the person and the ship; A more informal atmosphere will get the more derivitive terms like "Skipper" thrown around instead, etc, etc.

For a notable (and somewhat extreme) example, Lt. JG John F. Kennedy was 'captain' of his PT boat.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Appreciate the thoughts on non-Captains in command of starships (can anyone remember if Sisko was referred to as "Captain" while commanding Defiant in season three?). I know Gomez is currently the only Captain in non-red, my thought was that others might follow her example in the years to come. She is after all IIRC one of the top ten if not top five most respected engineers in the Fleet.

Shamrock Holmes

 

[DimesDan]

Although he appeared in an episode of DS9 and not any of the books so far, but the Admiral in The Die is Cast (I can't remember his name) is in yellow and it would be safe to assume that when he was a captain, he was in yellow as well, so, Captain Gomez isn't the first do not be in red while in command.

 

[JWolf]

Speaking of rank, why is it we see Captains going from being Captain to being Admiral with no rank in between? I know there used to be Fleet Captain and Commodore. But that's it.

 

[Christopher]

The commodore rank was phased out after TOS, presumably because the US Navy phased it out too. It's generally assumed that Starfleet has three levels of admirals, rear admiral, vice admiral, and full admiral. Rear admiral is probably the equivalent of a commodore.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Speaking of rank, why is it we see Captains going from being Captain to being Admiral with no rank in between? I know there used to be Fleet Captain and Commodore. But that's it.

It's debatable whether Fleet Captain is an actual rank, or just a fancy title. I prefer to ignore it.

As for Commodore: It no longer exists. The equivalent rank is now a one-star Rear Admiral (Lower Half).

(The original Rear Admiral rank still exists, it has two stars.)

 

[Paris]

Although he appeared in an episode of DS9 and not any of the books so far, but the Admiral in The Die is Cast (I can't remember his name) is in yellow and it would be safe to assume that when he was a captain, he was in yellow as well, so, Captain Gomez isn't the first do not be in red while in command.

That's actually Admiral Toddman. He most recently appeared in Mr. Leisner's Losing The Peace. He's one of the Admirals in the big holo-briefing that Picard gave. No word on whether he still wears yellow, though.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

IMHO, officers of Captain rank should be reserved for ships at least the size of Voyager. Any smaller ship, and it would seem like overkill.

Yes--although I would point out one thing about Starfleet versus the modern Navy.

It seems (though it's hard to tell) that the officer-to-enlisted ratio is much more like the Air Force than the Navy--i.e. a lot more officers than the Navy would have. Given the other aspects of Starfleet culture that seem like the Air Force (officer-enlisted interactions especially, the high education levels for officer and enlisted alike), I think, quite honestly, you may have more O-6's around (in addition to all other officer ranks) than the Navy would.

Given Starfleet's origins as a hybrid in Navy and Air Force traditions...I think that looking at the Navy as the only precedent may be a mistake when it comes to understanding how things work.

 

[ShinRa Actual]

Commodore can also be a title, as opposed to a rank (depending on if the navy/starfleet is running the Rear Admiral (Lower/Upper) scheme or not); Just as any officer commanding a ship is titled as Captain, a non-flag rank* officer in command of multiple ships would have the title of "commodore". This isn't as common as the Captain example, and the most recent example I can point to is during WWII; The senior merchant captain in a convoy was usually called the Convoy's Commodore. In another offshoot, most passenger ship lines usually bestow the title of Commodore to the line's senior-most captain. (Captain Smith of the Titanic was the White Star Line's Commodore, for example.)

Several books bring this up, occasionally giving a senior captain the Commodore title when they're in charge of multiple ships. Diane Carey's DS9 novelizations come to mind, and a more recent exaple would be from Before Dishonor, where Picard gets the honor.

Fleet Captain I've never heard outside of the one reference to Captains Pike and Izar; My general assumption is that it's some kind of honorary title for distinguished captains, but not a seperate rank.

*I say non-flag rank, because I've never heard of an Admiral referred to as a Commodore.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

It seems (though it's hard to tell) that the officer-to-enlisted ratio is much more like the Air Force than the Navy--i.e. a lot more officers than the Navy would have. Given the other aspects of Starfleet culture that seem like the Air Force (officer-enlisted interactions especially, the high education levels for officer and enlisted alike), I think, quite honestly, you may have more O-6's around (in addition to all other officer ranks) than the Navy would.

Part of that, I believe, was Gene Roddenberry's idea that there were no enlisted crew in Starfleet - everyone went through the academy and was an officer. That's why O'Brien's insignia on TNG was that of a Lieutenant's. When Gene died, they allowed enlisted officers to begin appearing.

 

[Christopher]

^Even though there were plenty of enlisted crew in TOS and TMP, both of which Roddenberry was directly involved with. Sometimes I don't think older Roddenberry and younger Roddenberry would've gotten along that well...

 

[Sci]

For the record, we have seen commodores in the TNG-era novels, including Peter David's Vendetta and Before Dishonor, and, if I recall correctly, A Time to Be Born/A Time to Die by John Vornholt.

In real life, the U.S. Navy rank structure goes like this:

Ensign
Lt. J.G.
Lieutenant
Lt. Commander
Commander
Captain
Rear Admiral, Lower Half
Rear Admiral
Vice Admiral
Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Admiral of the Navy (only ever held by one man)

Back in the day, "Commodore" was the rank between Captain and Rear Admiral.

I would presume that Starfleet still uses Commodore, and we've just run into a lot of captain who turn out to be so awesome that they get promoted past Commodore straight to Rear or Vice Admiral.

 

[Section 31]

Honestly, I think there's a skewed perception as far as ranks in Starfleet go. Most of what we see on the screen (and even in the novels) deals with senior staff and command functions that would be filled from the officer ranks. There's a lot of other work on a starship, such as people working on damage control teams, maintaining equipment in a science laboratory, managing supply inventories, etc., that would logically be performed by enlisted ranks. They're rarely, if ever, featured in the stories, so we don't know about them, but they'd have to be there.

That being said, though, I think many writers tend to lean on junior officer ranks such as "ensign" and "lieutenant" far too much. There should be a lot more "crewmen" and other such unambiguously enlisted titles. I notice this especially with security guards. Only the team lead, or maybe one other, should be an officer rank, the rest should be enlisted IMHO.

 

[Paris]

Enlisted personnel were used in Voyager, and especially in DS9. Most of the engineers we see, including Chief O'Brien, were enlisted personnel. I think the SCE series also features several enlisted people.