1 being the best 4 the worst.
For me
1. Paths of Disharmony
2. Zero Sum Game
3. Rough Beasts of Empire
4. Seize the Fire
For me
1. Paths of Disharmony
2. Zero Sum Game
3. Rough Beasts of Empire
4. Seize the Fire
Rank the Typhon Pact books!!
- Thread starter GalaxyClass1701
- Start date
1. Zero Sum Game - Paths of Disharmony
4. Rough Beasts of Empire - Seize the Fire
Each is tied with another for the spot.
4. Rough Beasts of Empire - Seize the Fire
Each is tied with another for the spot.
^Well, technically those would be ties for first and third place, not first and fourth.
I know that, but I felt that ranking them this way gave more of an indication as to how I felt about them. 
Paths of Disharmony was the best; great use of continuity from various series without drowning the story in recaps. It was a convincing and "natural" continuation of the "Deep Space Nine Relaunch" Andor arc, while building skillfully on "Destiny", "Vanguard" and the "TNG Relaunch" too. I could easily except Andor finally pulling out of the family; it had the feeling of inevitability while also working as a shock due to the weight of the decision. When the Andorian ambassador was meeting with Bacco, I knew what was coming, but in the sense that I found it gripping, not boring. Well played. The novel didn't actually focus on the Typhon Pact very much at all, which was surprising but actually very effective - after three books focused on internal politics of Pact members, it was interesting to have a Federation-focused story that then used the Pact "intrusively" to interrupt the Federation's internal concerns. It gave a real sense that both the UFP and the Pact have their own "lives" (so to speak) separate from one another - that there's of course a lot more to both than the rivalry the series is built around, but that neither can avoid the other's agendas either. In that sense, this book was actually the most effective in using the Pact, despite placing the least focus on them. The Pact is simply there now, and the Federation has to take them and their various members' agendas into account, even while most of its concerns have nothing to do with the Pact at all.
The Tholians suddenly showing up was a real "aha" moment, another of those "I know what's coming (more or less) but that excites me rather than bores me".
Oh, and points for clearing up the Flute continuity issue in a manner that really worked as a character piece rather than merely a explanation for the sake of it. Not that I of all people mind explanations-for-the-sake-of-them, but I was impressed at how the explanation was integrated into a genuinely enjoyable character piece for T'Ryssa (who continues to be a great character). Her evolving relationship with Picard is proving one of the highlights of the TNG novels.
PS: Poor Shar. He finally agreed to "do his duty" and make a child and now it was all for nothing. It was nice to see him again, though, definitely.
***************
Second, I'd place Rough Beasts of Empire, for its great politics, good use of the Romulans (particularly in terms of continuity) and rather surprising twists. I was a little disappointed to see the IRS and Donatra out of the picture so swiftly (while I'm certainly not saying this was the case, it couldn't help but come across a bit like "well, we had a situation with the Romulans - two states - and now we have another - the Typhon Pact - and we can't have two situations, so let's drop one") but then again it served as a genuine and successful surprise, so no fault there. And I must say, after all the Romulan Star Empire's been through - and the lengthy debates we've had on here about their newly second-rate position, it was rather satisfying to see them back where they belong, so to speak. I couldn't help but share Tomalak's pleasure at "Romulus ascendant!". Ave Ch'Rihan!
A shame they're going to get reversed again a few years down the road...
The Tzenkethi were satisfying, and I hope to see more of them now we have an established Trek lit identity for the Coalition. I would like to see Alizome herself again, actually. She seems like she'd make an effective recurring character.
Now for the controversy...Sisko. I was indeed concerned over his behaviour and choices, but I don't see it as a weakness of the novel. Rather, are we not supposed to feel that way? Sisko's clearly in a bad place (and unlike many, I do think he's in character, or, rather, this out-of-character behaviour falls within the established boundaries of Sisko's out-of-character behaviours, if that makes sense?). I'm anxious to see where future novels take him, and I hope he can take back his life a second time. So, disturbing, but not, in my mind, a fault of the story.
I found the other Deep Space Nine parts interesting and fulfilling - I'm excited to see the Ascendants are now apparently allies, and despite my earlier concerns about Kira-as-a-religious-leader (you might remember my thread on that) I was pleased with what we got. It seemed to fit with Kira's earlier character development, and I can accept that this is where she is now. So, good job there; my concerns are put to rest on that front.
*********
Then Zero Sum Game, which was good (I wrote a very extensive and favourable review as I read through it) but doesn't get marked as high simply because it was less involved with the wider high-stake politics that the "Typhon Pact" series is, in my mind, geared to. That's not a complaint - it's nice to have variety, and a more action-based thriller with in-depth exploration of an alien society that needed fleshing out is great. So it was certainly a success, but I can't help but favour "Paths..." and "Rough Beasts..." ahead of it here.
As I said in my initial review in the ZSG thread, the novel's ending gives it a boost in significance, by redefining the events of the book as part of an ongoing plotline that really did need follow-up. In that sense, it worked as a Deep Space Nine novel - and it certainly worked as an exploration of the Breen. I recall Christopher suggested it could possibly be seen as "Worlds of DS9: Breen": a good description. This is not in any way a bad thing, but because (and only because) this book reads slightly more like "Worlds of DS9: Breen" than it does "Typhon Pact" (the great Breen-Romulan-Federation political tussles and slipstream issue aside), it gets third place.
*************
Last, Seize the Fire, which while it certainly had its good points was indeed a bit of a misfire. Oh well, not every book can be a great one. I usually like Martin as an author (particularly paired with Mangels), but this was his weakest. I did like the insights into the Gorn, and the character of Gog'ressh (however it's spelt) was particularly fun. I really liked having an antagonist who was truly mad. Not mad-with-power, not overly paranoid or extremist, just...genuinely insane. I particularly liked how as he deteriorated his stated goals became more and more ridiculous until they clearly weren't supposed to be taken seriously. What disappointed me about this book was the lack of references to past novels, which really were needed in terms of the themes and content. I mean, we have a civilization without interstellar travel but using advanced warp-style technology anyway, and extensive talk about Prime Directive matters in terms of civilizations that don't easily fall into the Federation's rather simple classification system. Why didn't the words "Orisha" and "Droplet" come up? And the Sentries, while at least mentioned, should have had more focus. Basically, the novel's major weakness could easily have been its major strength - all that was needed was for the book to reference the previous novels and what the characters learnt and discussed in those. Make it overtly a continuation of those debates. That way, the rehash of theme could have worked really well and cemented Seize the Fire as the next installment in a series; as it is, it felt too much like a lack of originality for the Titan line.
I don't agree with the "shouldn't have been published" stance - it may have been a misfire, but it had its good points and was still enjoyable. It certainly comes last on my list, but every writer has off-days. I hope to see Martin and Titan bounce back soon.
The Tholians suddenly showing up was a real "aha" moment, another of those "I know what's coming (more or less) but that excites me rather than bores me".
Oh, and points for clearing up the Flute continuity issue in a manner that really worked as a character piece rather than merely a explanation for the sake of it. Not that I of all people mind explanations-for-the-sake-of-them, but I was impressed at how the explanation was integrated into a genuinely enjoyable character piece for T'Ryssa (who continues to be a great character). Her evolving relationship with Picard is proving one of the highlights of the TNG novels.
PS: Poor Shar. He finally agreed to "do his duty" and make a child and now it was all for nothing. It was nice to see him again, though, definitely.
***************
Second, I'd place Rough Beasts of Empire, for its great politics, good use of the Romulans (particularly in terms of continuity) and rather surprising twists. I was a little disappointed to see the IRS and Donatra out of the picture so swiftly (while I'm certainly not saying this was the case, it couldn't help but come across a bit like "well, we had a situation with the Romulans - two states - and now we have another - the Typhon Pact - and we can't have two situations, so let's drop one") but then again it served as a genuine and successful surprise, so no fault there. And I must say, after all the Romulan Star Empire's been through - and the lengthy debates we've had on here about their newly second-rate position, it was rather satisfying to see them back where they belong, so to speak. I couldn't help but share Tomalak's pleasure at "Romulus ascendant!". Ave Ch'Rihan!
A shame they're going to get reversed again a few years down the road...The Tzenkethi were satisfying, and I hope to see more of them now we have an established Trek lit identity for the Coalition. I would like to see Alizome herself again, actually. She seems like she'd make an effective recurring character.
Now for the controversy...Sisko. I was indeed concerned over his behaviour and choices, but I don't see it as a weakness of the novel. Rather, are we not supposed to feel that way? Sisko's clearly in a bad place (and unlike many, I do think he's in character, or, rather, this out-of-character behaviour falls within the established boundaries of Sisko's out-of-character behaviours, if that makes sense?). I'm anxious to see where future novels take him, and I hope he can take back his life a second time. So, disturbing, but not, in my mind, a fault of the story.
I found the other Deep Space Nine parts interesting and fulfilling - I'm excited to see the Ascendants are now apparently allies, and despite my earlier concerns about Kira-as-a-religious-leader (you might remember my thread on that) I was pleased with what we got. It seemed to fit with Kira's earlier character development, and I can accept that this is where she is now. So, good job there; my concerns are put to rest on that front.
*********
Then Zero Sum Game, which was good (I wrote a very extensive and favourable review as I read through it) but doesn't get marked as high simply because it was less involved with the wider high-stake politics that the "Typhon Pact" series is, in my mind, geared to. That's not a complaint - it's nice to have variety, and a more action-based thriller with in-depth exploration of an alien society that needed fleshing out is great. So it was certainly a success, but I can't help but favour "Paths..." and "Rough Beasts..." ahead of it here.
As I said in my initial review in the ZSG thread, the novel's ending gives it a boost in significance, by redefining the events of the book as part of an ongoing plotline that really did need follow-up. In that sense, it worked as a Deep Space Nine novel - and it certainly worked as an exploration of the Breen. I recall Christopher suggested it could possibly be seen as "Worlds of DS9: Breen": a good description. This is not in any way a bad thing, but because (and only because) this book reads slightly more like "Worlds of DS9: Breen" than it does "Typhon Pact" (the great Breen-Romulan-Federation political tussles and slipstream issue aside), it gets third place.
*************
Last, Seize the Fire, which while it certainly had its good points was indeed a bit of a misfire. Oh well, not every book can be a great one. I usually like Martin as an author (particularly paired with Mangels), but this was his weakest. I did like the insights into the Gorn, and the character of Gog'ressh (however it's spelt) was particularly fun. I really liked having an antagonist who was truly mad. Not mad-with-power, not overly paranoid or extremist, just...genuinely insane. I particularly liked how as he deteriorated his stated goals became more and more ridiculous until they clearly weren't supposed to be taken seriously. What disappointed me about this book was the lack of references to past novels, which really were needed in terms of the themes and content. I mean, we have a civilization without interstellar travel but using advanced warp-style technology anyway, and extensive talk about Prime Directive matters in terms of civilizations that don't easily fall into the Federation's rather simple classification system. Why didn't the words "Orisha" and "Droplet" come up? And the Sentries, while at least mentioned, should have had more focus. Basically, the novel's major weakness could easily have been its major strength - all that was needed was for the book to reference the previous novels and what the characters learnt and discussed in those. Make it overtly a continuation of those debates. That way, the rehash of theme could have worked really well and cemented Seize the Fire as the next installment in a series; as it is, it felt too much like a lack of originality for the Titan line.
I don't agree with the "shouldn't have been published" stance - it may have been a misfire, but it had its good points and was still enjoyable. It certainly comes last on my list, but every writer has off-days. I hope to see Martin and Titan bounce back soon.
Personally I thought that they went like this. I waffle a bit about 1 & 2, they flip flop a bit. *lol*
1. Paths of Disharmony
2. Rough Beasts of Empire
3. Zero Sum Game
4. Seize the Fire
1. Paths of Disharmony
2. Rough Beasts of Empire
3. Zero Sum Game
4. Seize the Fire
Sensing a trend regarding Seize the Fire.
I was so let down by this one! For years I wanted more with the Gorn and this is what they do!!!!!! The first 10 chapters were so slow I thought I might die!
It seems like every Titan book involves the ship being under gunned, while half the crew is trapped on a planet!
1. Zero Sum Game
2. Rough Beasts of Empire
3. Paths of Disharmony
4. Seize the Fire
Zero Sum Game was the only one I was truly happy with, Rough Beasts ... should have been 2 books. Paths was OK But abit boring in parts, in particular the Enterprise crew portions. Seize the Fire was just awful.
2. Rough Beasts of Empire
3. Paths of Disharmony
4. Seize the Fire
Zero Sum Game was the only one I was truly happy with, Rough Beasts ... should have been 2 books. Paths was OK But abit boring in parts, in particular the Enterprise crew portions. Seize the Fire was just awful.
Actually, I thought Zero Sum was the worst novel I've read by Mack. Not TERRIBLE, but I felt he was clearly off his game....
I think that might be true of all of the Typhon Pact novels: They weren't necessarily of the same standard (that's not really the word I wanted, but that's kinda close) as the authors' other works. It wasn't as...tight or as easy-flowing as previous series.
Agreed. Part of me wonders if this is due to all of the behind-the-scenes shuffling and upheaval going on at Pocket. I can't help but wonder if we are going to see a dip in quality.
It's true that the Typhon Pact books went through a few different editors from start to finish, but the "shuffling and upheaval" are pretty much over by now, as far as I can tell.
Indeed, it seems like the dust may have settled at Pocket. I'm just wondering if we, the readers, will be able to notice a certain period in Treklit where there is a gap in overall quality from when there was all of the shuffling and re-structuring going on. As you mention, the TP series went through a number of different editors, and perhaps that impacted the final product. How many upcoming books might suffer the same?
I would say that I think the Typhon Pact (and possibly also the Starfleet Academy, though that is just speculation) would probably have suffered the brunt of the shuffling and restructuring.
If I'm not totally mistaken Simon Spotlight has a totally different editorial team for their novels, so I doubt the SA novels were influenced.
1. Paths Of Disharmony - the only one there's any chance of me reading again. A good solid read.
And then 3 very poor books
2. Rough Beasts Of Empire - I enjoyed the Spock bits (surprisingly as I don't like the character) but (for me) it completely destroyed the characters of Sisko & Kira to the point where I never want to read about them again.
3. Zero Sum Game - Well written but I really didn't care. Reading about Bashir's issues might have been interesting if he had been paired with a proper character like Ezri or Ro (as in that Section 31 book a few years back) but instead we had Sarina who was a plot device rather than an actual character. The whole book felt like - oh look, what knowledge/ability will Sarina develop to get them out of this one. Oh and Dax and the Aventine might has well have not been in it - any ship could have been there and nothing would have been different.
4 - Seize The Fire. Painful, Ship Of The Line level bad.
And then 3 very poor books
2. Rough Beasts Of Empire - I enjoyed the Spock bits (surprisingly as I don't like the character) but (for me) it completely destroyed the characters of Sisko & Kira to the point where I never want to read about them again.
3. Zero Sum Game - Well written but I really didn't care. Reading about Bashir's issues might have been interesting if he had been paired with a proper character like Ezri or Ro (as in that Section 31 book a few years back) but instead we had Sarina who was a plot device rather than an actual character. The whole book felt like - oh look, what knowledge/ability will Sarina develop to get them out of this one. Oh and Dax and the Aventine might has well have not been in it - any ship could have been there and nothing would have been different.
4 - Seize The Fire. Painful, Ship Of The Line level bad.
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