Rank the Superhero TV serieses

[Greg Cox]

I'd argue that the Lone Ranger is a western/superhero hybrid.

Hell, the Green Hornet is basically a contemporary version of the Lone Ranger, and he counts as a superhero.

(Did I mention that I have a GREEN HORNET story coming out this summer?)

Does XENA count as a superhero series?

 

[Gryffindorian]

The Lone Ranger could be considered a hero just like Batman, but there's nothing super about him. Anyone can shoot guns, wear a costume, and fight crimes and save people. Police officers carry guns, fight crime, and wear a uniform; firefighters save people's lives and wear a uniform. They're heroes, but hat doesn't make them "metahuman" or superpowered beings. Michael Knight and James Bond have technology, skills, and tools at their disposal, but they are not super in any way.

 

[Greg Cox]

The Lone Ranger could be considered a hero just like Batman, but there's nothing super about him. Anyone can shoot guns, wear a costume, and fight crimes and save people. Police officers carry guns, fight crime, and wear a uniform; firefighters save people's lives and wear a uniform. They're heroes, but hat doesn't make them "metahuman" or superpowered beings. Michael Knight and James Bond have technology, skills, and tools at their disposal, but they are not super in any way.

Are you saying you don't consider Batman a superhero? Because that would come as a shock to 99.99% of the world's population. Not to mention the Justice League.

As somebody observed earlier, the Ranger has many of the trappings of a superhero: a mask, a secret identity, a sidekick, specialized weapons, and a codename.

If Bond wore a mask and called himself "The Agent" or "Mister 007," I'd consider him a superhero.

 

[Gryffindorian]

The problem is that the word "superhero" has been thrown around so much that it's lost its original meaning, but one only needs to dissect the word. Technically, I wouldn't consider Batman a superhero, but he is in a traditional comic-book sense (wears a costume, has a secret identity, etc.), but he doesn't possess superhuman abilities like Superman, Spiderman, or Wolverine.

 

[Greg Cox]

Still, you have to consider how the word is actually used. If you stop somebody on the street and ask them to name a superhero, "Batman" is going to be one of the most common answers. And, historically, he's inextricably tied into the very creation of the genre.

Granted, most people think of the Lone Ranger as more of a western hero, since he straddles genres, but he's definitely got plenty of superhero in his make-up. And much more so than, say, Marshall Dillon or Shane.

Basically, the Scarlet Pimpernal beget Zorro who beget Batman. Each character is more superhero-y than the previous one, but they all share the same DNA. Ditto for the Phantom, the Lone Ranger, Doc Savage, the Green Hornet, etc.

 

[Gryffindorian]

One other category I consider for a fictional character to be labeled as a superhero is that, first and foremost, such character has to be "established" as a superhero. Do Buffy and Angel qualify as superheroes? They do in the sense that they have super abilities and kick the bad guy's ass. However, they weren't written as superheroes. I guess they have their own comic book titles now, establishing their place in the comic book fandom.

Harry Potter isn't considered a superhero even if he has magical abilities and fights Death Eaters. Neither is Frodo Baggins. Nor MacGyver. They weren't written that way.

 

[RandyS]

The Lone Ranger could be considered a hero just like Batman, but there's nothing super about him. Anyone can shoot guns, wear a costume, and fight crimes and save people. Police officers carry guns, fight crime, and wear a uniform; firefighters save people's lives and wear a uniform. They're heroes, but hat doesn't make them "metahuman" or superpowered beings. Michael Knight and James Bond have technology, skills, and tools at their disposal, but they are not super in any way.

Are you saying you don't consider Batman a superhero? Because that would come as a shock to 99.99% of the world's population. Not to mention the Justice League.

As somebody observed earlier, the Ranger has many of the trappings of a superhero: a mask, a secret identity, a sidekick, specialized weapons, and a codename.

I guess if you're gonna use that argument, I'd have to concede that the Lone Ranger is a superhero. I definately consider Batman to be one, so I guess the Lone Ranger is one also.

That doesn't change the fact that I primarily see the Lone Ranger as a western though.

 

[Broccoli]

^ Is there a rule that superheroes stories cannot also exist as westerns?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

A superhero isn't necessarily a hero with innate superhuman powers; it's a hero, particularly a costumed or otherwise visually distinctive hero, who performs supernormal feats by whatever means.

So, just like the Lone Ranger, Zorro, etc.

But do they perform supernormal feats? One could argue that the Lone Ranger's ability to reliably shoot guns out of people's hands demonstrates supernormal aim and coordination, but it falls within the range of unrealistic abilities that are generally presented as normal heroic skills in fiction. (Such as, say, the ability to fly through a pane of glass without sustaining life-threatening blood loss, or the ability to fall off a roof and catch yourself several stories down on a window ledge without instantly breaking your fingers.) And really it's only the reliability of it that's unrealistic; shooting a gun out of someone's hand is within the realm of possibility for a normal human with sufficient firearms training and skill. (The other unrealistic part, as the Mythbusters demonstrated recently, is that the shrapnel from the shattered bullet would probably injure or kill the disarmed party; then again, the Lone Ranger's silver bullets would have less mass and kinetic energy than lead bullets and thus their shrapnel might be less damaging. On the other hand, they're harder than lead bullets so they'd absorb less kinetic energy through deformation as they shattered, so the shrapnel might be more dangerous. I'm not sure; I can't seem to find anything online that addresses it, not in a cursory search.)

As for Zorro, I don't thing there's anything supernormal that he's been depicted doing; his abilities are basically those of any skilled swordsman and equestrian. He just does it wearing a mask. And has the acting skill to pull off a dual identity. Nothing supernormal there.

If you want to use the qualifier that a character must perform supernormal feats in order to qualify as a superhero, I would submit to you that Zorro, Lone Ranger, et al demonstrate a degree of, for want of a better term, "good luck" that is far beyond the reasonable expectation of a "normal" human being.

They routinely engage in activities that would lead to crippling injury or death for normal human beings, such as rushing into a combat outnumbered by 2,3,4-1 (occasionally more) and emerge not only triumphant, but either entirely intact or merely a little rough around the edges. They jump off of high cliffs/battlements into bodies of water. They swing from chandeliers. They rush into mines to rescue hostages from burning sticks of dynamite/barrels of gunpowder and routinely succeed in doing so.

 

[RandyS]

^ Is there a rule that superheroes stories cannot also exist as westerns?

I'll be damned if I know.

 

[A beaker full of death]

^ Is there a rule that superheroes stories cannot also exist as westerns?

I'll be damned if I know.

Certainly not.

 

[Christopher]

In general, I think any definition of "superhero" that excludes non-powered characters like Batman or the Green Hornet or the Phantom is fundamentally flawed . . . . although the Scarlet Pimpernal and the Lone Ranger are definitely borderline cases.

Well, the definition I offered includes costumed characters who perform supernormal feats through technological means. The Green Hornet, at least in the TV series, had his share of fanciful gadgets -- the supercar with the silent engine and the "infra-green" headlights, the garage floor that flipped over to reveal the car, the Hornet Sting, the knockout gas, the UAV-style aerial probe.

As for the Phantom, I'd put him more in the "costumed hero" category, but he has enough trappings of superhero fiction that he could count as a superhero by a literary definition if not a technical, in-universe one. He has the colorful tights and mask, he has the secret identity, he has the trademark symbol, and he's a figure of myth and legend, The Ghost Who Walks, the man who cannot die. If "super-" can apply to anything that transcends normality, that's above and beyond ordinary heroics, then the generational legacy of the Phantom and the mythology that's grown around it (in-universe) could indeed qualify. After all, myths and symbols have their own power. (One could say that the Phantom was the first legacy hero.)

Hell, the Green Hornet is basically a contemporary version of the Lone Ranger, and he counts as a superhero.

Yep. The Lone Ranger's grandson, originally, though I'd imagine a contemporary adaptation would have to drop that or at least add a generation or two to the lineage. Though in the current or recent comics, aren't the new GH and Kato the next generation after the originals?

Does XENA count as a superhero series?

I don't think so. Hercules might, since he was a demigod with actual superpowers, but Xena was basically a distaff Batman, an ordinary human whose effectively superhuman abilities were presented as the result of extreme skill and training. Okay, one can be a superhero without innate powers, but Xena didn't have a costume (per se) or special gadgets (just weapons, though the chakram seemed magical). She did have a sidekick, though...

 

[Broccoli]

Hell, the Green Hornet is basically a contemporary version of the Lone Ranger, and he counts as a superhero.

Yep. The Lone Ranger's grandson, originally, though I'd imagine a contemporary adaptation would have to drop that or at least add a generation or two to the lineage. Though in the current or recent comics, aren't the new GH and Kato the next generation after the originals?

The Green Hornet is the great-nephew of the Lone Ranger.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Does XENA count as a superhero series?

I don't think so. Hercules might, since he was a demigod with actual superpowers, but Xena was basically a distaff Batman, an ordinary human whose effectively superhuman abilities were presented as the result of extreme skill and training. Okay, one can be a superhero without innate powers, but Xena didn't have a costume (per se) or special gadgets (just weapons, though the chakram seemed magical). She did have a sidekick, though...

Actually, we learn later in the series that Xena is also a demigod(ess). Her real father was Ares, who took the form of her mortal father to impregnate her mother.