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Random First Contact Thoughts

According to the Engines of Destiny novel, them going back in time was the back-up plan, but it was only supposed to take them back a few days in time.
That makes no damn sense. If they were only supposed to go back a few days, why do the Borg immediately open fire on Montana when they emerge from the vortex? There's no logical reason for Montana to be a priority target in the 24th century, it only makes sense to attack there first if they intentionally went back to the mid 21st century with the intent of preventing Cochrane's warp flight.

And indeed, the Voyager episode Relativity confirms that was the Borg's intent.
 
That makes no damn sense. If they were only supposed to go back a few days, why do the Borg immediately open fire on Montana when they emerge from the vortex? There's no logical reason for Montana to be a priority target in the 24th century, it only makes sense to attack there first if they intentionally went back to the mid 21st century with the intent of preventing Cochrane's warp flight.

And indeed, the Voyager episode Relativity confirms that was the Borg's intent.
Yeah. What good would a few days have done? They could have just sent a couple of cubes.

But at the same time they could have just gone back in time in the Delta Quadrant and made their way to Earth in the 21st century.

It only makes sense if the whole thing is a set up. The Borg intend for the Enterprise to follow them back, hence the Queen whispering to Locutus.
 
That makes no damn sense. If they were only supposed to go back a few days, why do the Borg immediately open fire on Montana when they emerge from the vortex? There's no logical reason for Montana to be a priority target in the 24th century, it only makes sense to attack there first if they intentionally went back to the mid 21st century with the intent of preventing Cochrane's warp flight.

And indeed, the Voyager episode Relativity confirms that was the Borg's intent.
Agreed...and how does it make sense that the Borg just happen to appear one day before First Contact and immediately devise a plan to destroy the Phoenix, etc? Nah...makes no sense.
 
OTOH, if they do arrive with the intent to destroy the Phoenix, then it's pretty odd (read: suspicious) the warpship survives, silo or no silo...

Timo Saloniemi
 
OTOH, if they do arrive with the intent to destroy the Phoenix, then it's pretty odd (read: suspicious) the warpship survives, silo or no silo...

Timo Saloniemi

All they really do is kill Cochrane's support crew, necessiting the Enterprise engineers stepping in.
 
OTOH, if they do arrive with the intent to destroy the Phoenix, then it's pretty odd (read: suspicious) the warpship survives, silo or no silo...

Timo Saloniemi

But as we saw, they only needed to damage it and kill enough key project personnel. So long as they not launch in time to be noticed by the Vulcans, they've accomplished their purpose.
 
That makes no damn sense. If they were only supposed to go back a few days, why do the Borg immediately open fire on Montana when they emerge from the vortex? There's no logical reason for Montana to be a priority target in the 24th century, it only makes sense to attack there first if they intentionally went back to the mid 21st century with the intent of preventing Cochrane's warp flight.

And indeed, the Voyager episode Relativity confirms that was the Borg's intent.
Maybe the plot was to destroy the Zefram Cochrane commemorative statue and the Phoenix Launch Site Museum Visitor Center Gift Shop (you know there's a hella markup on the coffee cups with the "Magic Carpet Ride" lyrics on them) ;)
 
Agreed...and how does it make sense that the Borg just happen to appear one day before First Contact and immediately devise a plan to destroy the Phoenix, etc? Nah...makes no sense.
True but you're forgetting that the Borg adapt. Wouldn't take long for them to realize where they were and to take out the Phoenix.
 
Yeah, but instantly? Even the Borg don't adapt that quickly.
I think the intial idea was that they were supposed to be that quick. Remember the Queen was on board as well.
We also don’t know how long the Sphere was there before the Enterprise arrived. With it being a time related distortion, they could been there a few minutes, or a few hours before the Enterprise came through it, from their perspective.
I may be remembering the book wrong but it could have been a few years back, rather than a few days, which would have made more sense.
 
They instantly open fire on Montana the exact moment they emerge from the vortex. If they're that quick at adapting, why do Starfleet officers fighting them typically get off a dozen phaser shots before the Borg are able to adapt?
 
They instantly open fire on Montana the exact moment they emerge from the vortex. If they're that quick at adapting, why do Starfleet officers fighting them typically get off a dozen phaser shots before the Borg are able to adapt?
Did they? We don’t know that for sure.
 
But as we saw, they only needed to damage it and kill enough key project personnel. So long as they not launch in time to be noticed by the Vulcans, they've accomplished their purpose.

Or then their purpose was to facilitate the launch, which would also be achieved by the means we saw. Kill the 21st century personnel who don't know how to build a warship, and replace them with 24th century personnel who do - while making sure the ship itself remains in good enough condition that the engineers from the future can mistake its crappy construction for "Borg damage"...

If the purpose was to stop the warp project altogether, then blasting the ship to bits would be the only certain way to go. Given how slow going the construction of the crew pod was in the post-apocalyptic setting, a new warp rig could not be made in the next decade or two: Vulcans would ignore Earth, the planet would not recover from the war, and soon Klingons or Pakleds would move in instead.

If the ship could not be reached, then odds are that some folks would survive, too - the place was built for underground protection of not just the missiles but the personnel, after all. And Cochrane and Sloane did; in a few weeks or months (given sufficient numbers of morale-boosting bottles), they could have completed the rig and made the flight. And the Vulcans would again have been there to observe - the odds of them not being there would be astronomical, considering how astronomical it would have been for them to observe the flight-that-did-happen "by happenstance" in the first place. They are spying on us all the time, I tell ya.

Timo Saloniemi
 
The beauty of it is that it's like Scotty and the transparent aluminium - the plans for the Phoenix that are in the Enterprise computer are for the ship which the Enterprise crew themselves repaired, so everything would line up perfectly for them.
 
Far and away my favorite TNG film, and one of my top 3 or 4 Star Trek films. I always liked the Borg and were happy to see them get a film. Also this film and Nemesis were the only 2 TNG films that felt like theatrical productions. I liked a lot of Generations but that felt mostly like an episode of the TV series, as did Insurrection.

The insertion of the Borg Queen was not my favorite. My guess is they were afraid the Borg were getting a bit one dimensional and she was added to bring a different feel to the Borg. In an odd sort of way it made sense. The Borg were consistently stated to have a 'hive' mind and like a bee hive, they had their own queen. But it did take some of the mystique away. But I loved how the Borg were portrayed in this film. They were always creepy but somehow in the movie, with the makeup work and the camera shots they actually managed to make them look even more menacing. Sometimes it was something as simple as how the camera would focus on their eye(s) and you'd see them look at a character in a certain way that would send a chill up your spine. Almost like a monster suddenly seeing you hiding in a closet.

And I agree with Vger in his initial post. They managed the A/B plotlines very well in this movie. It was never distracting. The scenes on Earth were done is such a way that it offered a brief respite from the more stressful on ship scenes. It was like the filmmakers knew just when to give you a bit of a breather at just the right times.

I still like the deflector dish scenes. I know they are a bit slow and clunky, but they are outside the ship with gravity boots. That doesn't lend itself to quick action sequences. I liked how the Borg were not wearing space suits there as well. I figured the Borg's shielding would protect them (almost like the life support belts in the animated series).

Now that's not to say there weren't some substantial plot holes. I admit I was a bit shocked and almost appalled at Picard's seemingly ignoring the 'temporal prime directive' and basically giving Lily a history of the future. I know the Borg basically sabotaged the future by their actions and the Enterprise crew had to take action to fix things as best they could, but yeah, there were some unnecessary reveals by the crew. I do like Picard's and Lily's confrontation in the observation lounge. Picard was painting a rosy picture of the future, and in many ways it is, and humanity has improved, but humans were still imperfect beings and Lily exposed that in that scene. She basically filled in for Riker in that scene. He would normally be the one, possibly with Troi, that would bring Picard back down to Earth (pardon the pun), but they weren't there to remind him of that.

There were other plot holes as well. Sometimes they took liberties to move the story along. But the good far outweighs the bad. When you make an engaging, entertaining film with just the right amount of action and dialogue, and of course another top notch score by Jerry Goldsmith, it makes it easier to forgive some of the films faults.

And that's how I look at First Contact. I still love watching the movie. It strikes a perfect balance. And I came to love TNG as a show and am always glad they were able to make at least one blockbuster film.
 
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The movie has got flaws. I don't think its unreasonable to admit that. And they're flaws that have become more obvious with time, as the initial excitement died down. But even today, the movie is essentially competing in a very shallow gene pool with the three other TNG movies, whose flaws are all much more glaring and harder to excuse. First Contact therefore comes across not just as looking better by comparison to those films, it also is good enough on its own merits to not offend too much with the things it does get wrong. And the things it gets right, it hits right out of the park.
 
What you really got to wonder is how did they re-create the vortex? The main deflector was ejected and blown up.

They probably just followed a Feynman curve.

I don't think any of the shows or films dealt with this, but it's brought up a few times in the novelverse. Basically, time travelers have to return to their own time by the same method they originally left it. So the Enterprise couldn't return to the future via the slingshot around the sun, because that's not how they got to the past.

So there was probably enough of the vortex remaning for the Enterprise to pick up and return home. (Remember, the Enterprise never made the vortex. They followed the one that the Borg sphere created.)
 
The movie has got flaws. I don't think its unreasonable to admit that. And they're flaws that have become more obvious with time, as the initial excitement died down. But even today, the movie is essentially competing in a very shallow gene pool with the three other TNG movies, whose flaws are all much more glaring and harder to excuse. First Contact therefore comes across not just as looking better by comparison to those films, it also is good enough on its own merits to not offend too much with the things it does get wrong. And the things it gets right, it hits right out of the park.

I think that's probably it in a nutshell. It's not a perfect film. There are some flaws. But it does many things excellently. It's easier to forgive a movie it's faults if you are entertained. It felt like a movie worthy the price of admission and ultimately that's the barometer to judge it by.
 
So there was probably enough of the vortex remaning for the Enterprise to pick up and return home. (Remember, the Enterprise never made the vortex. They followed the one that the Borg sphere created.)
Plus the ship was full of Borg stuff. I figure they must have beamed over with more than just drones, so there might have been databases which had details of how they created their time portal.

After all, the Borg Queen will probably have wanted to option to return to the 24th century.
 
I rewatched this the other night and still think it holds up, although I do prefer Generations more. Again, as in Generations, Picard is grossly incompetent. When he beams up and Worf is giving his status report on the Borg overtaking Deck 16 Picard shoots down Worf's suggestion of sending a security team to investigate (when the threat could have possibly been contained) and Picard barks an order to "seal off Deck 16 and post security teams at every access point." He then sits on his hands after a failed attempt to retake main engineering and the abduction of Data and lets the Borg overtake more than half the ship.

When the Borg started taking over Voyager, Janeway opened an airlock and sucked them out into space. Why wasn't this done here? "Maybe there isn't an airlock on Deck 16" you may say. Well, we know main engineering is one of the first areas the Borg overtake as a "central point from which to control the Hive." What does main engineering have? A warp core. What can be done with a warp core? It can be ejected. Into space. Literally, all Picard would have had to do is eject the core, keep the port open into space, and let the Borg threat be eliminated via vacuum.

Of course, if this were to have happened, I guess it would have been a super short Borg movie :)
 
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