Radical Star Trek

[Rayek4eq]

Hi, I'm new on these boards.

I recently (about four months ago) watched the entirety of TNG and was surprised at how radical and unorthodox some of the episodes were, in relation to the ideas they were presenting and the time at which they were being shown.

I've been discussing with my feminist LGBT friends that Star Trek TNG, and probably Star Trek in general, is a good thing and not like a lot of other shows of its kind because it pushes the envelope in many respects.

A few things I have noticed throughout the series are:

The disollution of male/female traditional roles (Tasha Yar being a security cheif, if only for the first season);

The tolerance of a diverse set of cultures and races

The use of violence as a last resort

The 'conservationist' ideas within the Prime Directive

and so on.

Above all, I have found, upon a more recent search, only two episodes that particularly focus on radical ideas:

S2 E09, "The Measure of a Man" - They try to decide whether Data has the right to choose, or if he's property of the Federation.

S5 E17, "The Outcast" - Riker and an androgynous being fall in love.

Those are the two I suggested my 'rad' friends watch, but I know there is more, and I can't realistically watch them all again and take notes.

Any suggestions? I will probably watch each one you suggest.

Thanks

 

[I am not Spock]

'Who Watches The Watchers' in the third season is still a really controversial one, because it deals with the sensitive topic of religion. Picard basically says that humans in the 24th Century have evolved beyond religion.

Also, the Cardassian and Bajoran storyline reminds me of current affairs in Gaza, etc. Although that's dealt with more frequently in DS9, 'Ensign Ro' in TNG season five riffs on terrorism, and suchlike.
As does 'The High Ground' in season three.

'Chain of Command' has themes about torture. Quite relevant these days.

Oh, and welcome to the board!

 

[bpfx]

I would think you would have to be careful when branching out into radical ideas. Straying too far from the "norms" could cause people watching the show to become uncomfortable. Personally I like the radical ideas they came up with in the show, but I can see where it not necessarily offend, but make some viewers not like the show.

I just got a copy of all 7 seasons and am watching them again. I haven't seen the whole show in it's entirety in a couple of years, but now when I watch the episodes I notice more and more that I missed some bits.

 

[Rayek4eq]

I would think you would have to be careful when branching out into radical ideas. Straying too far from the "norms" could cause people watching the show to become uncomfortable. Personally I like the radical ideas they came up with in the show, but I can see where it not necessarily offend, but make some viewers not like the show.

I think in this case, I'm safe because the viewers themselves are the kind of people to be happy that things are different, and not pushing the whole 'apple pie', 'generic brand violence' thing. In fact, if the show was full of 'norms' I probably wouldn't watch it. It's been a 'rad' show since TOS.

To think that we're calling the elimination of gender roles as 'radical'.

I will have to check out those episodes, I think I do remember "Who Watches the Watchers".

I'm interested in hearing more suggestions! I mean, there ARE seven seasons...

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I would think you would have to be careful when branching out into radical ideas. Straying too far from the "norms" could cause people watching the show to become uncomfortable. Personally I like the radical ideas they came up with in the show, but I can see where it not necessarily offend, but make some viewers not like the show.

I think in this case, I'm safe because the viewers themselves are the kind of people to be happy that things are different, and not pushing the whole 'apple pie', 'generic brand violence' thing. In fact, if the show was full of 'norms' I probably wouldn't watch it. It's been a 'rad' show since TOS.

To think that we're calling the elimination of gender roles as 'radical'.

I will have to check out those episodes, I think I do remember "Who Watches the Watchers".

I'm interested in hearing more suggestions! I mean, there ARE seven seasons...

Well, while there is nothing wrong with eliminating gender roles, some people actually believe that men and women are not inherently different. I'll let you know if I can think of any good eps for you to watch as I'm working through the series as well.

Welcome aboard.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

I think they were very sexually liberal too, for that time. For example, the episode set on Risa with girls freely offering "jamaharon".

 

[Rayek4eq]

Well, while there is nothing wrong with eliminating gender roles, some people actually believe that men and women are not inherently different. I'll let you know if I can think of any good eps for you to watch as I'm working through the series as well.

Welcome aboard.

I count myself among one of those people, women can and should be able to do everything they are capable, no matter how 'tough' or 'angry' the task is, and men should feel comfortable doing things that are considered 'feminine'. There are physical differences between us, but saying someone's brain is capable where another is incapable just because of gender is insane. Captains of other ships stop short of calling Picard a (pardon my language) 'pussy' when he backs down from a fight. I'm glad this exists, and was shown during a decade of fierce, combative conservatism.

But this really isn't the place for this discussion.

 

[Rayek4eq]

I think they were very sexually liberal too, for that time. For example, the episode set on Risa with girls freely offering "jamaharon".

Not to mention TOS and Kirk's supposed "Insatiable appetite".

Oh, and which episode was it where the Enterprise went to a colony on 'shore leave' where all the men and women were scantly clad and blonde and were "ready for action"? It was in season 1, I think.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

I think they were very sexually liberal too, for that time. For example, the episode set on Risa with girls freely offering "jamaharon".

Not to mention TOS and Kirk's supposed "Insatiable appetite".

Oh, and which episode was it where the Enterprise went to a colony on 'shore leave' where all the men and women were scantly clad and blonde and were "ready for action"? It was in season 1, I think.

season one of TOS or TNG?

 

[Alrik]

I think they were very sexually liberal too, for that time. For example, the episode set on Risa with girls freely offering "jamaharon".

Not to mention TOS and Kirk's supposed "Insatiable appetite".

Oh, and which episode was it where the Enterprise went to a colony on 'shore leave' where all the men and women were scantly clad and blonde and were "ready for action"? It was in season 1, I think.

The ep you are talking about was "Justice". Season One TNG.

 

[WillsBabe]

There's a moment in Outrageous Okona that's quite interesting. At one point Troi stands on the bridge and tells the alien fathers on the viewscreen that it's no longer necessarily to be married to the child's father when having a baby. It's interesting because there were a lot of parts of the Western world at that time that believed that and there were a few parts that probably didn't. It seemed to me that it was a case of TNG pinning its colours to the mast.

 

[JustKate]

This doesn't involve gender roles, but one of the most thought-provoking episodes in TNG for me has always been "The Drumhead," which comes kind of in the middle of season 4. It's about a search for a traitor that turns into a witch hunt. Fabulous -- but amazingly uncomfortable to watch.

Personally, I think learning to not prejudge people is a far more radical concept than a female security chief, but maybe that's just me.

Another one I really like is "The Hunted," which comes near the middle of season 3. It is just so...real, I guess. I mean, assuming our society ever reaches the point where it can genetically enhance humans to make them better warriors (which is actually not that far off)...well, this could really happen. Love this episode, love it love it love it.

 

[WillsBabe]

Personally, I think learning to not prejudge people is a far more radical concept than a female security chief, but maybe that's just me.

I agree.

Another one I really like is "The Hunted," which comes near the middle of season 3. It is just so...real, I guess. I mean, assuming our society ever reaches the point where it can genetically enhance humans to make them better warriors (which is actually not that far off)...well, this could really happen. Love this episode, love it love it love it.

I've always seen this episode as an analogy for the Vietnam war and the way those returning soldiers were treated.

 

[WillsBabe]

Personally, I think learning to not prejudge people is a far more radical concept than a female security chief, but maybe that's just me.

I agree.

Another one I really like is "The Hunted," which comes near the middle of season 3. It is just so...real, I guess. I mean, assuming our society ever reaches the point where it can genetically enhance humans to make them better warriors (which is actually not that far off)...well, this could really happen. Love this episode, love it love it love it.

I've always seen this episode as an analogy for the Vietnam war and the way those returning soldiers were treated.

 

[JustKate]

^ Oh, yes, but it goes farther than that. I'd say it's an analogy for any time human beings are considered disposable -- very thought provoking.

I just read the review of the episode here, and the reviewer wasn't nearly as impressed as I was. Oh, well. I must respectfully disagree.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

This doesn't involve gender roles, but one of the most thought-provoking episodes in TNG for me has always been "The Drumhead," which comes kind of in the middle of season 4. It's about a search for a traitor that turns into a witch hunt. Fabulous -- but amazingly uncomfortable to watch.

Personally, I think learning to not prejudge people is a far more radical concept than a female security chief, but maybe that's just me.

Another one I really like is "The Hunted," which comes near the middle of season 3. It is just so...real, I guess. I mean, assuming our society ever reaches the point where it can genetically enhance humans to make them better warriors (which is actually not that far off)...well, this could really happen. Love this episode, love it love it love it.

Not only were the stories great, but the guest stars carried the show. Oh, Zefram Cochrane was in The Hunted

 

[Mirror_Barclay]

Certainly the ep where they find cryogenically frozen people from our time, and inform them that the Federation no longer has any form of currency, must count among the most extraordinarily radical episodes of any Trek show.

Perhaps its impact is diluted by the many episodes where the opposite is implied.

The problems with radical ideas extend beyond causing offense, although that's a danger. They can also lead to anvilicious episodes (whether boring or offensive, you lose eyeballs either way) and disrupt suspension of disbelief.