Quick question about the X-men, Jean Grey

[Vanyel]

In most of the stories of the X-Men I've read, and in the Animated versions, and the movies she is referred to as Jean or Jean Grey, less often as Phoenix. Why is that? When I used to read X-Men and X-Men related comics (this was back in the 1980's) I can only remember her called Jean.

I can understand that Marvel Girl is a rather dated and silly name, but has she taken a lasting code name since Marvel Girl or Phoenix?

 

[CaptMurdock]

In most of the stories of the X-Men I've read, and in the Animated versions, and the movies she is referred to as Jean or Jean Grey, less often as Phoenix. Why is that? When I used to read X-Men and X-Men related comics (this was back in the 1980's) I can only remember her called Jean.

I can understand that Marvel Girl is a rather dated and silly name, but has she taken a lasting code name since Marvel Girl or Phoenix?

As far as the movies and the animated series go, I think they wanted to "reserve" the Phoenix name for the whole Dark Phoenix subplot...ignoring the fact that Jean (apparently Jean, anyway) called herself Phoenix two years before the Dark Phoenix subplot really got underway.

The very reason Claremont and Dave Cochran came up with the Phoenix name and costume was to get rid of the Marvel Girl name. "Dated and silly" were part of it; a new title called Ms. Marvel was about to debut, so they were under pressure from that quarter as well.

 

[Ptrope]

Well, Jean was only Phoenix when she was the Phoenix; the rest of the time, she was just the hot redhead with the mental powers. "Hot Redhead with Mental Powers" was too long for the letterers to write on a regular basis, so they settled for the somewhat lame "Marvel Girl," then I guess they decided that "Jean Grey" was better, after all.

I think we should start a contest to rename her. I'm voting for "X-Girlfriend"

 

[Vanyel]

Well, Jean was only Phoenix when she was the Phoenix; the rest of the time, she was just the hot redhead with the mental powers. "Hot Redhead with Mental Powers" was too long for the letterers to write on a regular basis, so they settled for the somewhat lame "Marvel Girl," then I guess they decided that "Jean Grey" was better, after all.

I think we should start a contest to rename her. I'm voting for "X-Girlfriend"

 

[captcalhoun]

in one issue in the 90s, she actually acknowledges she has a lame codename in a conversation with Beast.

 

[Capt_Piett]

"I think we should start a contest to rename her. I'm voting for "X-Girlfriend"

I think right now she's pining for the fjords....

 

[Hermiod]

Maybe she's a Rob Zombie fan - then she could call herself Living Dead Girl.

 

[captcalhoun]

i knew a girl on another forum called Living Dead Grrrl.

she was cute.

 

[Christopher]

Actually Jean did use the Phoenix codename for a while in the comics of the '90s or so, despite no longer being possessed by the Phoenix force. My 2006 X-Men novel Watchers on the Walls was set approximately in the timeframe of the comics being published around 1999, and according to my research, Jean was going by Phoenix at the time, so that was what I called her in the manuscript. But Marvel insisted that I cut out all references to the Phoenix code name, despite the fact that doing so would make the book less accurate to its period. Apparently they wanted all tie-ins to avoid the Phoenix name except in reference to the Phoenix Force, perhaps because of the impending third movie dealing with the Phoenix (despite the fact that in the movie continuity, Phoenix was simply an alternate personality within Jean).

 

[Praetor]

Well, Jean was only Phoenix when she was the Phoenix; the rest of the time, she was just the hot redhead with the mental powers. "Hot Redhead with Mental Powers" was too long for the letterers to write on a regular basis, so they settled for the somewhat lame "Marvel Girl," then I guess they decided that "Jean Grey" was better, after all.

I'll one-up that and say that she was only the Phoenix when she was the Phoenix, but she's still good to use the codename as long as she's died and come back to life. Clearly, TPTB couldn't think of a better new nickname than 'Marvel Girl' so simple ole 'Jean Grey' it was. Not very good for a 'secret' school for mutants, but if you eliminate that, it doesn't matter much.

Am I the only one that actually likes the Phoenix split-personality idea as depicted in X3? (Probably.) Figure out how to mix in the M'Kraan crystal and that as a revised origin helps legitimize the whole thing, methinks.

I think we should start a contest to rename her. I'm voting for "X-Girlfriend"

It's a shame she never got to be Ms. Marvel, at least in title, before that character had its own identity. Of course Rogue later on was probably more deserving.

 

[RoJoHen]

Am I the only one that actually likes the Phoenix split-personality idea as depicted in X3? (Probably.) Figure out how to mix in the M'Kraan crystal and that as a revised origin helps legitimize the whole thing, methinks.

I didn't mind it the split personality thing. I minded that she went around killing all of the X-Men.

However, X2 was pretty clearly implying that Jean's powers were growing as a result of events from Liberty Island (Magneto's mutant machine). I didn't like that X3 ignored that.

 

[Praetor]

Am I the only one that actually likes the Phoenix split-personality idea as depicted in X3? (Probably.) Figure out how to mix in the M'Kraan crystal and that as a revised origin helps legitimize the whole thing, methinks.

I didn't mind it the split personality thing. I minded that she went around killing all of the X-Men.

However, X2 was pretty clearly implying that Jean's powers were growing as a result of events from Liberty Island (Magneto's mutant machine). I didn't like that X3 ignored that.

Yeah, I agree. I could see the repressed persona striking out at those who repressed it for all those years (particularly the Professor), but really the character motivations in her were underdeveloped. She's killing, she's liking being bad, then she's just standing there suddenly. Then she's flipping out killing again. Then she's just standing there.

Sadly, they dropped the X2 ball so bad that I had forgotten about it until you mentioned it. It might have been a nice explanation to say that the MMM was the reason the 'Phoenix' persona lashed out and was able to resurrect her from the end of X2. But of course, that wasn't said.

Slightly OT, I was thinking about how to work in the M'Kraan crystal into 'split Jean.' I think the most interesting route would be to say that the Shi'Ar had actually hidden the crystal via superscience within Jean as an infant, and it was the power of the crystal that caused her to have unusually mutated powers (based in the subconscious rather than the conscious part of the brain) and all of the associated schizoaffective problems that followed.

 

[Capt_Piett]

"However, X2 was pretty clearly implying that Jean's powers were growing as a result of events from Liberty Island (Magneto's mutant machine). I didn't like that X3 ignored that."

Well, you can partially blame that on Singer, who ran off to direct Superman Returns and on Ratner who replaced him. If Singer left "thumbnails" of what he wanted to do, Ratner should have followed them. I guess we'll never know exactly how he intended to finish the film, but it probably would have been more successful than Returns was....

 

[Hermiod]

i knew a girl on another forum called Living Dead Grrrl.

she was cute.

I imagine she got that username from the Rob Zombie track.

 

[Luckyflux]

"However, X2 was pretty clearly implying that Jean's powers were growing as a result of events from Liberty Island (Magneto's mutant machine). I didn't like that X3 ignored that."

Well, you can partially blame that on Singer, who ran off to direct Superman Returns and on Ratner who replaced him. If Singer left "thumbnails" of what he wanted to do, Ratner should have followed them. I guess we'll never know exactly how he intended to finish the film, but it probably would have been more successful than Returns was....

I knew a girl with the last name of Singer....boy was she hot!

 

[Vanyel]

pining for the fjords....

"Pining for the fjords"? What kind of talk is that? Look, why did it fall flat on its back the moment I got it home?