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Quick galactic question

mythme

Commodore
Commodore
Just a quickie...having trouble finding an answer to this...

Our solor system is located in the Orion arm of the galaxy. I know that we are located 26,000 ly from the galactic center (from what might be called "lengthwise".) What I'm trying to find out is how "thick" is the Orion arm and where is our Solar System in relation to that?
 
What I'm trying to find out is how "thick" is the Orion arm and where is our Solar System in relation to that?

The thickness of the galactic stellar disk is hard to define exactly, since it's a diffuse cloud with a complex structure. Here's a good discussion:

http://members.nova.org/~sol/chview/chv5.htm
Often called Population I stars, the relatively younger stars of the galactic disk can be further subdivided into four distinctive groups: very young spiral arm; young thin disk; intermediate-age disk; and older thick disk and nucleus. As mentioned previously, the spiral arms include most of the galaxy's interstellar gas and dust, young stars, and stellar associations, including: O and B stars; supergiants; Cepheid variables; pre-main sequence, T-Tauri stars and Herbig-Haro objects (e.g., R Coronae Australis/CD-37 13027); and some A stars. Less than a hundred million years old, these stars are rich in metals (as rich as, but ranging up to twice, Sol's abundance) and have highly circular galactic orbits within 1,000 ly of the galactic plane. While often extremely bright when not obscured by dust, these stars probably total substantially less than one percent of all Milky Way or nearby stars.

Young thin disk stars lie within 1,500 ly of the galactic plane and have galactic orbits of low eccentricity. Around one billion years or more in age, they include many A and F stars, AFGK giants, some GKM main-sequence dwarfs, and white dwarfs. While they have a mean metals abundance near Sol's (1.0), some may be twice as rich. Totalling as much as nine percent of all stars in the solar neighborhood, they include Sirius2 (A0-1Vm and A2-5VII -- also DA2-5) and Vega (A0Va).

Intermediate-age disk stars include our Sun (G2V), most G and some K and M dwarfs, some subgiants and red giants, and planetary nebulae. Many are around five billion years old and have a metals content ranging from 0.5 to 1.0 of Sol's (with a mean around 0.8). These stars lie within 3,000 ly of the galactic plane, with moderately eccentric galactic orbits. For example, Sol is traveling at seven kilometers per second northward out of the plane and may eventually rise 200-250 ly above it after 15 million years, while the Alpha Centauri3 (G2V, K1V, and M5.5Ve flare star) system may eventually travel about 800 ly out with an upward velocity that is three times faster. As much as 84 percent of the stars in the solar neighborhood are included in this group.

Most thick disk and many nucleus stars are old, but probably less than 10 billion years old. They include many K and M dwarfs, white dwarfs, some subgiants and red giants, moderately metals-poor stars, long-period variables, and RR Lyrae variables with periods less than 12 hours. Most thick disk stars lie within 5,000 ly of the galactic plane (thick disk mean of 3,500 ly) and have considerably eccentric orbits. Their metals abundance ranges from 0.2 to 0.5 of Sol's (with a thick disk mean of 0.3). Thick disk stars may comprise as much as four percent of nearby stars, including Lalande 2115 (M2.1V) which is moving perpendicular to the galactic plane at a fast velocity of 47 km/sec.

(These thickness estimates may be off by a factor of two, though: http://www.universetoday.com/2008/02/22/milky-way-is-twice-as-thick-as-previously-believed/ )

So the Orion Arm per se is maybe 2-4000 ly thick, comparable to its "horizontal" thickness. But there's more to the galactic disk than the spiral arms. There's a common misconception that spiral arms contain the stars and the spaces between them are voids. But the stars are found throughout the disk, and the spiral arms are concentrations of nebulae, dust clouds, star formation zones, and young stars. The Orion Arm (like the other arms) is embedded in a thicker disk, as discussed in the quoted section.

As the third quoted paragraph says, our Sun is currently pretty close to the galactic plane, i.e. roughly in the middle of the disk, but a little "above" it. The Sun's orbit causes it to oscillate above and below the disk periodically, but not by too much.

More on galactic structure:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060227_mm_milky_way_tour.html (more for laypeople)
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~barnes/ast626_95/pcmw.html (more technical)
 
It should also be noted that we do not have a good understanding of what the system looks like on the other side of the center. We assume its shape based on things we know about our side and looking at galxieis around us.
 
^^But the question was about this side of the galaxy, so that's not actually relevant here.

I understand, the problem is that we have no way of knowing how thick it really is since we are in it. I would imgien it is like swimming in a pool and looking up and gusing how much water is above you. It goes to show how little we know about where we are and what it looks like in the macro sinse. We do know alot about our local group and even other galxies, but its the micro things about the arms we don't know much about.
 
^^There are certainly ways to find out how thick the galactic disk is. I provided a link above to an article suggesting that it's twice as thick as we thought, but that article explains how measurements were taken to evaluate that. We have ways of calculating how distant certain types of star are, and if we look perpendicular to the galactic plane and don't see any stars of those types more than, say, 6000 light-years in either direction, that tells us the disk can't be more than 12,000 ly thick.

By the same token, it's certainly possible to calculate how much water is above you in a swimming pool if you understand the laws of perspective, light refraction, and so forth. Or if you know the speed of sound in water and measure how long it takes a sonar pulse to echo off the surface and return to you. Or if you look at the depth indicators printed on the side of the pool.

You're right that there are certain things we still don't know about galactic structure, but it's dead wrong to say we're completely in the dark and have no way of finding things out. We know a lot and we're learning more all the time. Here are a couple more websites that contain detailed information about galactic structure:

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/
http://galaxymap.org/drupal/node/45
 
I've seen the latter of those two websites you mentioned, and it's improved tremendously over the last couple of years since I started looking at it.
 
^^Yeah, though I still find it awkward. It doesn't have a lot of recognizable landmarks or use a lot of recognizable names for things, so it's hard to get my bearings.
 
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