Questions for ubertrekkies!

[Kuri]

Hi, I'm new here so please be gentle.

I like writing fanfics in several universes. A friend recently planted a seed in my mind - why not try Star Trek? It's taken root and I'm madly researching Memory Alpha right now.

While I've always like the ST films and shows, I can't really claim to be a hardcore Trekkie, so it's a bit daunting attempting to tackle such a rich resource. So consider me an inexperienced ensign, and I would be most obliged if you would indulge me a couple of newbie questions.

Q1: For you Science Officers: Can a photon torpedo (or more than one) generate enough energy to push a degenerate white dwarf star into supernova (assuming it has enough mass that this would happen naturally, eventually, anyway)? [I have posted this in the trek tech forum too.]

Q2: For the A&A officers: I want to describe a human character as a "statuesque Nigerian" - it has a nice ring and conveys lots of meaning beyond her mere appearance. But is it appropriate to use the word "Nigerian" in the 23rd Century (TOS timeframe)? It seems to me that though Earth is now united under a single government, there is still some sense of former nations and cultures.

Q3: For the Engineering Officers: I think I have the perfect ship for my story - an Archer-class scout ship (which may in itself be a fan creation). But at just under 50m long it's a little too cramped for my purposes. I was thinking of something more like 80 - 100m. Also, I wanted something a lot more "sharp" and aerodynamic-looking than the old circular Enterprise style, but yet still keep in the mood of the TOS era. Maybe something like the 20th Century NASA shuttles with a pair of warp nacelles on the wingtips!

I realise that is a tall order, but wondered if you knew of any Federation starship designs I can use?

Thank you so much!

Kuri the Tribble Overlord

 

[Sgt_G]

A1: No. If adding energy to a white-dwarf star could do that, it would take the entire Starfleet with every ship on rapid-fire for hours or days to do anything at all measurable.

A2: I don't see why not.

Q3: Not off hand, but I would suggest you peruse shipschematics -dot- net and/or .cygnus-x1 -dot- net. Maybe something will just out at you. Also, there is a topic here under fan-fiction titled Creating a realistic crew manifest... that may give you some ideas of what you actually need to run a ship 24/7. I think it got pushed down to page 2 on the list of threads.

 

[Kuri]

Awesome thanks for the quick reply, Sgt_G!

On 1; Oh dear, someone in the tech forum just contradicted you. But that did involve transporting the torpedo into the star's centre.

On 2; Fanks. Others are welcome to jump in here. I feel like it's OK... but wondered if there were any other references like this from the canon.

On 3; Nice recommendations, thanks. The creator of that thread is scary - he's making a crew of hundreds! I'm going for a scout ship with less than 15 .

Knew this was the right place to come to!

Kuri

 

[Sgt_G]

Fifteen crew? Not sure how you can run a 24/7 ship with that. See my thread "Crowd-source project: Create a character and help build a crew" for a crew roster of 45 members, and even at that I have a couple duty positions running two jobs at once (helm/nav and sensors/comm). I suppose there's still some room to reduce numbers, but it's at the point you're no longer just trimming fat but rather starting to cut into meat. At 15 crew, I think you're down to the bone. That can ONLY work, in my opinion, if the ship has a home-base it goes back to frequently.

 

[Kuri]

The Archer-class scout, at 45m length, has 12 crew. (But I'll admit it's not my creation).

The idea is that it's not intended for extended missions, then crash-boom, something goes terribly wrong and they are stuck years away from Earth (like the Voyager) and it looks pretty desperate, with indeed all members needing to cover multiple duties - with an immediate priority on finding food and fuel.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Q1. ??? [Pass, I'd need to look up the science behind that]

Q2. Race may no longer be an issue, but people do still come (and would identify as being) from different countries on Earth so there wouldn't be an issue with using that as a description.

Q3. You might want to check out the Capella-Class from the Starfleet Museum (the same place that brought us the outline of the Archer-Class, which is a personal favourite of mine). I can't remember the specs off the top of my head, but she is a small survey-type craft. If that doesn't work for you, just create a ship that fulfils your needs. Also on an Archer-Class ship all the crew already pull double duty, cross-trained in multiple disciplines/specialties.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I think I have the perfect ship for my story - an Archer-class scout ship (which may in itself be a fan creation).

The Archer was designed by a fan--Masao Okazaki of The Starfleet Museum fame--but IIRC, he actually designed it as a professional job for Pocket Books. (It was modeled after his (much larger) Paris Class.) Masao is actually a member here, and would probably be able to provide much more insight than me.

But at just under 50m long it's a little too cramped for my purposes. I was thinking of something more like 80 - 100m. Also, I wanted something a lot more "sharp" and aerodynamic-looking than the old circular Enterprise style, but yet still keep in the mood of the TOS era. Maybe something like the 20th Century NASA shuttles with a pair of warp nacelles on the wingtips!

Well, since it seems you're not afraid of referencing non-canon ships... the only "sharp"/not circular designs I can think of off the top of my head are the Epsilon and Solar classes from FASA. The lengths are in your ballpark, although it looks like the crew complements are a little bit larger than what you were going for.

Actually, there is another "not-circular" design, and it's even in the canon, too... the Antares type. I'm not sure how large it is, but the crew count sounds to be right around what you're looking for. And since the episode it was in can't decide if it's supposed to be a survey ship or a cargo ship, you can pretty much call it whatever you want!

 

[Kuri]

@Bry_Sinclair thanks for looking in!

Q1: LOL don't worry... the fact that there are differing answers makes me feel it's one of those "we really don't know yet" matters in astro-physics.
Q2: I'm feeling better and better about that little bit of description.

Q3: Ooh, yeah the capella is a bit closer to what I had in mind! Still too "circular", though, if you know what I mean. I want a real arrowhead sleek style. Maybe I'm just going against type and breaking TOS fluffrules .

The thought occurs that I'm going to have to try and construct my own Mk.III or higher Archer and stretch it somehow. Problem is that along with my lack of Trekkie-credentials and obvious science-knowledge deficiencies, I'm not much of a graphic designer either (and lack the software).

Kuri the Tribble Overlord

 

[Kuri]

Here you go. I mashed up an Archer class in good old MS Word to show the mental image I have...

Actually, that didn't come out too badly...

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Q3: Ooh, yeah the capella is a bit closer to what I had in mind! Still too "circular", though, if you know what I mean. I want a real arrowhead sleek style. Maybe I'm just going against type and breaking TOS fluffrules .

Rules are made to be broken

The thought occurs that I'm going to have to try and construct my own Mk.III or higher Archer and stretch it somehow. Problem is that along with my lack of Trekkie-credentials and obvious science-knowledge deficiencies, I'm not much of a graphic designer either (and lack the software).

Kuri the Tribble Overlord

Unless you're needing cover art or something similar then you don't really need detailed graphics, a quick sketch outline of the basic shape/layout for your own reference is more than enough, just make sure you keep the specifications consistent (both within the timeframe and also for the ship itself, ie the number of shuttles, torpedoes, etc at its disposal) as well as a rough deck directory, so you know where all the key locations are.

Hope that helps.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Here you go. I mashed up an Archer class in good old MS Word to show the mental image I have...

Actually, that didn't come out too badly...

Not bad for a quick mash-up. If it's a Mk-III Archer then the ship itself could also be slightly larger, with a different deck arrangement and triple/quadruple the crew, to give you a little more flexibility as well. Would she be on the same type of short-duration scouting missions?

 

[Kuri]

@Avro Arrow and there you go making even more great suggestions... They all look nice. It will be hard to choose.

@Bry_Sinclair I'm sort of getting used to the 12-man crew, so I'll probably just call the MkIII a round 60m long without much different internally. And yes, the opening situation is an intended short survey mission that goes wrong.That quick mashup may well end up being my blueprint..

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The specs for the Archer-Class is a standard complement of 14. The crew of the Sagittarius were: Captain, First Officer, Second Officer, Doctor, Medtech, Science Officer, Helmsman/Navigator, Chief Engineer, Engineers (x3), Security Chief, Field Scouts (x2). I'm fairly certain they did add a fifteenth (Tactical Officer) as well.

But of course, it's your crew, so there can be as many or as few as you want.

It's an intriguing sounding idea. I wish you well with the writing of it.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

An idea has just struck me about Q1. There was a DS9 episode where a visiting scientist was trying to reignite a dying star using (I'd need to double check) a protomatter device. Even if it wasn't, David Marcus did use protomatter in the Genesis Device and it was said to be a highly dangerous and unstable substance. Perhaps this mission your ship is on was when Starfleet realised just how bad it actually was, thus banning it's use. So maybe they were experimenting with a torpedo delivery system for some sort of protomatter-based technology, perhaps something that was meant to be of benefit but then went disastrously wrong.

Just more food for thought.

 

[TheLoneRedshirt]

Re:
Q1 - In my opinion, no.
Q2 - Ironically, the main character of my Bluefin tales, Joseph Akinola, is Nigerian. So, yes.
Q3 - It may be a bit pre-TOS but I really like the Paris-class and Kestrel-class ships by Masao Okazaki. Google Starfleet Museum for his site with images and specs.

 

[Kuri]

@Bry_Sinclair Excellent - that's almost exactly what I have in mind for my ship...

1. Captain
2. Senior Science Officer (doubles as XO, like Spock)
3. Security Chief (doubles as Tac Officer, like Worf, AND 3rd Officer)
4. Helm/pilot
5. Nav/co-pilot
6. Medical Officer
7. Medtech
8. Field Science Officer (doubles as sensor officer on bridge)
9. Field Science Assistant (doubles as second sensor operator on bridge)
10. Comms Officer (perhaps doubles as a tech?)
11. Engineering Officer
12. Engineer

As feared, I'm short on engineering techs. Maybe I'll have one more to make a crew of 13 (unlucky for some! ). I'm pleased to see a second medic in the official complement - I was worried about having 2 for such a small crew.

Hmmm. Protomatter. Fascinating. I will look into that...

@TheLoneRedshirt Great, thanks! I like the kestrel. Looks like stingray, and I was going for a submarine-type vibe. This Okazaki chap is a legend!

Kuri

 

[Sgt_G]

On 1; Oh dear, someone in the tech forum just contradicted you

Well, I read "white dwarf" and instantly remembered that they result from a red giant that has gone nova, so my brain never registered your part "assuming it has enough mass that this would happen naturally, eventually". Photon torpedoes are energy weapons. Very powerful compared to Little Boy / Fat Man but not even a drop in a bucket to the energy a star gives off. That's why I said it'd take a whole fleet of ships firing photons at it to do anything. Even if the white dwarf had enough mass left, it's still mass and gravity that causes the super-nova. I don't see how adding energy on the surface would do anything. For that matter, I don't see how teleporting a photon torpedo (which in my opinion is impossible) into the center of the star would do anything, either.

As to the crew size: I still don't see how you can run 24/7 operations. They'd have to find a safe place to park (or orbit) at "night". If this ship was intended to run short missions of 15-20 days, no more than a month, perhaps you could go with two shifts instead of the standard three shifts.

Maybe you could treat it more like an aircraft instead of a navy ship, where the captain is the pilot-in-command. Instead of sitting in the center seat, he sits at the helm. You could then run the bridge with two people: pilot and co-pilot. Together, they fly the ship, do navigation, and watch the sensors. They also handle any communications, which doesn't happen all that often. I would definitely want more than one person in the engine room. I'd like at least two at all times, so three or more scheduled. With five or six people per shift, with a day/night shift, you can go with ten to twelve people, plus your support crew (med-tech, science, etc). So, if you went with a 20-man crew, you'd have plenty to do what you want. A 15-man crew is still doable.

All that said, if you write a good story, I can find a way to ignore the lack of realistic manning and just enjoy reading / watching it.

 

[SolarisOne]

On 1; Oh dear, someone in the tech forum just contradicted you. But that did involve transporting the torpedo into the star's centre.

Yeah, that's not going to work. Reasoning: even if a torpedo exploding in the center of a white dwarf could do something like that (it can't) you wouldn't be able to beam the torpedo there in the first place. Transporters can't even handle heavy ionization, and they think a transporter's going to be usable through some of the most dense matter known?

 

[Kuri]

@Sgt_G I apologise. For the sake of brevity, I didn't fully explain my intended situation for Q1. Yes, the idea was simply to "push" a star that is virtually at supernova over into the final collapse. However, the weight of opinion is with you after a vigorous discussion in the tech forum. It's not possible.

While this was disappointing at first, maybe it's a good thing on reflection. Blowing up the star is such a tired old trope, it will be good for me to come up with something more creative. Ironic that it's not even possible in all those books and films, eh?

I'm looking into somehow energising nebulae or accretion discs for a big flash now... Wish me luck!

On the crew, yeh, a 45m long ship is probably quite different to the requirements of the big cruisers.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I stumbled across this starship and wondered if it might be of use to you. No clue about it's specs though, but that you could make up to suit yourself.