Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

[Tidus79001]

So what you are saying is because you didn't like something at 12 years old that colorized your perceptions on beloved characters deaths in Star Trek then we should all be subjected to you ignoring the majority of fans who want that beloved character back. It's your way, or the highway is it?

No. She's saying that as a viewer and a reader she doesn't like to be jerked around. And as a writer she doesn't believe in jerking her readers around. You'd get that if you actually understood what was written instead of trying to subvert her words to fit your personal world view.

BillJ I am not subveting anyone's words & from your reply it seems as if you are trying to subvert & twist my words.

Your logic works too ways. Let’s explore how shall we? How isn’t it jerking readers around by replacing Janeway with a faceless replacement & when the majority of the readers want her returned we are told to get used to the changes?

Why do you feel so threatened by Janeway that you would want to deny her fans of her return?

There are a great number of Voyager fans out there & they like Voyager the way that it was. Non Voyager fans should quit expecting Voyager to be completely re-worked so that it is to their liking. If you don't like it go read the other Star Trek novel like you threatened to do & leave the rest of us to enjoy Voyager in peace.

Whose threatened? I, like many, have said they would sample any books that return Janeway. But we accept and enjoy the current direction. No one has threatened to go to their rooms and hold their breath til they turn blue over the issue.

It seems to me that the Janeway brigade is galled that the books are moving forward in a successful manner without Janeway. To me, that's just flat petty.

Actually you exactly said:

If I get a whiff of Janeway coming back with any other writer at the helm, I'll drop the relaunch like a hot potato and may still even with Beyer if I get some implausible resurrection..

Hmmm, that doesn’t sound like:

Whose threatened? I, like many, have said they would sample any books that return Janeway. But we accept and enjoy the current direction. No one has threatened to go to their rooms and hold their breath til they turn blue over the issue.

Oh sorry to point that you are backpedaling & your trying to change what you actually said about dropping the relaunch like a hot potato if you even got a whiff of Janeway coming back & and maybe still even with Beyer if you get some implausible resurrection

*OH, SNAP!*

^ Okay, folks. Let's either keep it civil or take it out of here. This thread is supposed to be a place to address questions for the Janeway panel - not a place for fans and non-fans of Janeway to take potshots at each other.

Kimc I never attacked anyone. It is BillJ who replied to my post saying that it was BS, then in a subsequent post he accused me of trying to subvert the words of Kristen Beyer.

Why are you framing this as 'fans' vs. 'non-fans' of Janeway? That is the furthest thing from the truth. It's about people disagreeing over a simple story direction. The problem is one side seems far more agitated over the direction than the other.

It is you who keeps making angry attacks personal attacks at me.

 

[Tidus79001]

So what you are saying is because you didn't like something at 12 years old that colorized your perceptions on beloved characters deaths in Star Trek then we should all be subjected to you ignoring the majority of fans who want that beloved character back. It's your way, or the highway is it?

No. She's saying that as a viewer and a reader she doesn't like to be jerked around. And as a writer she doesn't believe in jerking her readers around. You'd get that if you actually understood what was written instead of trying to subvert her words to fit your personal world view.

BillJ I am not subveting anyone's words & from your reply it seems as if you are trying to subvert & twist my words.

Your logic works too ways. Let’s explore how shall we? How isn’t it jerking readers around by replacing Janeway with a faceless replacement & when the majority of the readers want her returned we are told to get used to the changes?

Why do you feel so threatened by Janeway that you would want to deny her fans of her return?

There are a great number of Voyager fans out there & they like Voyager the way that it was. Non Voyager fans should quit expecting Voyager to be completely re-worked so that it is to their liking. If you don't like it go read the other Star Trek novel like you threatened to do & leave the rest of us to enjoy Voyager in peace.

Whose threatened? I, like many, have said they would sample any books that return Janeway. But we accept and enjoy the current direction. No one has threatened to go to their rooms and hold their breath til they turn blue over the issue.

It seems to me that the Janeway brigade is galled that the books are moving forward in a successful manner without Janeway. To me, that's just flat petty.

Actually you exactly said:

If I get a whiff of Janeway coming back with any other writer at the helm, I'll drop the relaunch like a hot potato and may still even with Beyer if I get some implausible resurrection..

Hmmm, that doesn’t sound like:

Whose threatened? I, like many, have said they would sample any books that return Janeway. But we accept and enjoy the current direction. No one has threatened to go to their rooms and hold their breath til they turn blue over the issue.

Oh sorry to point that you are backpedaling & your trying to change what you actually said about dropping the relaunch like a hot potato if you even got a whiff of Janeway coming back & and maybe still even with Beyer if you get some implausible resurrection.

*OH, SNAP!*

^ Okay, folks. Let's either keep it civil or take it out of here. This thread is supposed to be a place to address questions for the Janeway panel - not a place for fans and non-fans of Janeway to take potshots at each other.

Kimc I never attacked anyone. It is BillJ who replied to my post saying that it was BS, then in a subsequent post he accused me of trying to subvert the words of Kristen Beyer, and called me petty.

Why are you framing this as 'fans' vs. 'non-fans' of Janeway? That is the furthest thing from the truth. It's about people disagreeing over a simple story direction. The problem is one side seems far more agitated over the direction than the other.

Yeah that would be your side. I haven't made any attack on you at all & you have made 3 attacks on me as I pointed out above in my reply to Kimc. It is you who keeps making angry attacks personal attacks at me. Sorry BillJ I don't back down to bullies. All that I can say about your attacks on me is that when people start to attack you know you are being effective!

 

[BillJ]

So what you are saying is because you didn't like something at 12 years old that colorized your perceptions on beloved characters deaths in Star Trek then we should all be subjected to you ignoring the majority of fans who want that beloved character back. It's your way, or the highway is it?

No. She's saying that as a viewer and a reader she doesn't like to be jerked around. And as a writer she doesn't believe in jerking her readers around. You'd get that if you actually understood what was written instead of trying to subvert her words to fit your personal world view.

BillJ I am not subveting anyone's words & from your reply it seems as if you are trying to subvert & twist my words.

Your logic works too ways. Let’s explore how shall we? How isn’t it jerking readers around by replacing Janeway with a faceless replacement & when the majority of the readers want her returned we are told to get used to the changes?


Actually you exactly said:

Hmmm, that doesn’t sound like:


Oh sorry to point that you are backpedaling & your trying to change what you actually said about dropping the relaunch like a hot potato if you even got a whiff of Janeway coming back & and maybe still even with Beyer if you get some implausible resurrection.

*OH, SNAP!*

^ Okay, folks. Let's either keep it civil or take it out of here. This thread is supposed to be a place to address questions for the Janeway panel - not a place for fans and non-fans of Janeway to take potshots at each other.

Kimc I never attacked anyone. It is BillJ who replied to my post saying that it was BS, then in a subsequent post he accused me of trying to subvert the words of Kristen Beyer, and called me petty.

Why are you framing this as 'fans' vs. 'non-fans' of Janeway? That is the furthest thing from the truth. It's about people disagreeing over a simple story direction. The problem is one side seems far more agitated over the direction than the other.

Yeah that would be your side. I haven't made any attack on you at all & you have made 3 attacks on me as I pointed out above in my reply to Kimc. It is you who keeps making angry attacks personal attacks at me. Sorry BillJ I don't back down to bullies. All that I can say about your attacks on me is that when people start to attack you know you are being effective!

I called bullshit on this remark:

The only people wrestling with the “should she” be brought back question is the editors & possibly yourself.

If this isn't your remark then I apologize, if it is yours then it is bullshit.

If you call those attacks then your far more thin-skinned than I originally gave you credit for.

There is no contradiction in my thoughts on whether Janeway comes back or not. Kirsten Beyer is one of the few authors that actually get Janeway, even with that I won't accept the Q snap their fingers and everything goes back to normal. Just like I was disappointed with Spock's return and Kirk's return in the novels. There is no good way to turn back death. I'm not one to be so mesmerized by a fictional character that I throw all logic out the window. And I'll always know in the back of my mind that I was cheated out of new dynamics and new character growth to satisfy a few people. I like the fact that Voyager like the Enterprise now feels like a ship with a 'living' history. YMMV.

 

[Tidus79001]

I called bullshit on this remark:

The only people wrestling with the “should she” be brought back question is the editors & possibly yourself.

If this isn't your remark then I apologize, if it is yours then it is bullshit.

If you call those attacks then your far more thin-skinned than I originally gave you credit for.

There is no contradiction in my thoughts on whether Janeway comes back or not. Kirsten Beyer is one of the few authors that actually get Janeway, even with that I won't accept the Q snap their fingers and everything goes back to normal. Just like I was disappointed with Spock's return and Kirk's return in the novels. There is no good way to turn back death. I'm not one to be so mesmerized by a fictional character that I throw all logic out the window. And I'll always know in the back of my mind that I was cheated out of new dynamics and new character growth to satisfy a few people. I like the fact that Voyager like the Enterprise now feels like a ship with a 'living' history. YMMV.

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*. Now you are going in circles & rehashing the same attacks. *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*. Oh wait you did find another personal attack when you said:

If you call those attacks then your far more thin-skinned than I originally gave you credit for.

That makes 4! Kimc also thought those were personal attack as evidenced by his response to your first post when you attacked me. Let's refresh your memory on that shall we?

^ Okay, folks. Let's either keep it civil or take it out of here. This thread is supposed to be a place to address questions for the Janeway panel - not a place for fans and non-fans of Janeway to take potshots at each other. Settle it via pm or put each other on ignore...

Now that we have the cleared up let's examine this new attack you made on me. I am thin skinned? I think not. I am not the one making personal attacks, nor am I getting up upset over what someone else posted. I prefer interesting, useful, and constructive dialogue.

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*
Someone wake me up when BillJ actually has something interesting, useful, and constructive to dialogue about.

 

[BillJ]

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*. Now you going in circles & rehashing the same attacks. *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*. I am thin skinned? I think not. I am not the one making personal attacks, nor am I getting up upset over what someone else posted. I prefer interesting, useful, and constructive dialog.

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*
Someone wake me up when BillJ actually has something interesting, useful, and constructive to dialog about.

 

[Tidus79001]

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*. Now you going in circles & rehashing the same attacks. *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*. I am thin skinned? I think not. I am not the one making personal attacks, nor am I getting up upset over what someone else posted. I prefer interesting, useful, and constructive dialog.

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*
Someone wake me up when BillJ actually has something interesting, useful, and constructive to dialog about.

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Wow that was creative. Nothing witty to say? *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Still asleep here *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

 

[BillJ]

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*. Now you going in circles & rehashing the same attacks. *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*. I am thin skinned? I think not. I am not the one making personal attacks, nor am I getting up upset over what someone else posted. I prefer interesting, useful, and constructive dialog.

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*
Someone wake me up when BillJ actually has something interesting, useful, and constructive to dialog about.

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Wow that was creative. Nothing witty to say? *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Still asleep here *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

Sometimes you just have to bow to the absurdity of a given situation.

 

[Tidus79001]

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Wow that was creative. Nothing witty to say? *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Still asleep here *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

Sometimes you just have to bow to the absurdity of a given situation.

I have nothing personal against you BillJ. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the topic/issue of the return of Janeway. *Peace man*

 

[BillJ]

*Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Wow that was creative. Nothing witty to say? *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Still asleep here *Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

Sometimes you just have to bow to the absurdity of a given situation.

I have nothing personal against you BillJ. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the topic/issue of the return of Janeway. *Peace man*

It's all in good fun.

We all could probably come up with a plan to cure world hunger with all the time we've spent arguing over Janeway.

 

[Tidus79001]

"The Return of Janway" it sounds like a title for a 1950's b creature feature/horror movie.

Maybe it could be another Captain Proton adventure

 

[Lord Manitou]

Star Trek started as a science fiction show case and the entire franchise is no less now. Killing off Janeway is always and ultimately a bad show. Character actors are killed off at regular intervals when their timeline has finally ended or their added color and significance can no longer contribute. I enjoy your novels for they are a good representation of the Voyager series and I've learned to refresh myself with another experiment that may yet prove to be more than that--an experiment.

 

[Thestral]

But I'll never get my first experience of watching Star Trek II, Wrath of Khan out of my head. It truly was a defining moment for me as a consumer of stories. I was twelve. I'd seen all of the Original Series by that point, and the first movie and loved Spock like everyone else. And even when Kirk was standing there in engineering and Spock was on the other side of that wall I was screaming inside that he just couldn't be dying. And then he was dead. And I was completely destroyed. I was too young to understand that Nimoy had requested this, or that the next movie could bring him back. I seriously believed that was it. I wasn't angry at the people who made the movie for killing Spock. I was just blown away that it could happen, and did, right before my eyes. It made me feel part of the story in a way nothing else I'd ever seen before ever had. It told me how much I actually cared about the characters. Yes, I was sad, but I was also amazed and impressed that such a huge thing could happen and I was there to see it. What twelve year old me couldn't have said then, but I understand now, was that I was impressed by the bravery of the idea. That was a big storytelling risk to take, and because it moved me so, I loved it.

Kirsten, I wanted to say I really, really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on how Spock's death (and return) affected you. I don't know if you're familiar with Bridge to Terabithia, but reading that book when I was a kid had a similar affect on me, except without the disappointment of ST:3. And with I think more rage and tears.

Your logic works too ways. Let’s explore how shall we? How isn’t it jerking readers around by replacing Janeway with a faceless replacement & when the majority of the readers want her returned we are told to get used to the changes?

I think you misunderstand what "jerking readers around" means, because sticking with the course of the stories you've decided to tell (the aftermath of Janeway's death and the way her memory affects her friends and people she never met) doesn't qualify.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

And we're back...picking up now with some new poster's questions...

Kirsten,

I would like to know why Pocketbooks continues to upset and offend so many of their readers by ignoring the wishes of Janeway fans and refusing to bring her back? Voyager is captained by Kathryn Janeway. Killing her off and then refusing to bring her back, even though Voyager fans are demanding it, makes no sense. You are a talented author, and I know you are capable of writing a wonderful novel that will bring Janeway back to her fans.

Thank you for the opportunity to participate in your panel.

Judy Clue

Thank you for the vote of confidence. The reality is that fan reactions do not determine the content of our stories, and that holds true for both sides of this conversation. You may feel that Pocket isn't listening to you. Pocket is listening to you. I am listening to you. And I am listening to the Voyager fans who like the new direction and may or may not have strong feelings one way or another about Janeway returning to the books. While I'm sure that your preference would be that I only listen to you, I don't have that luxury. It is precisely because there are so many differing opinions every time a major change is made to a story like this, that those opinions cannot be a factor in our thought process going forward. Again...I'm not just saying your opinion. I'm saying everyone's opinion on both sides.

Everybody who is in a position to actually decide the content of a story has years of experience that is relevant to the work at hand. We trust our instincts and create the best stories we can, knowing that at times, some readers will not approve. It goes with the territory.

What had concerned me for some time and caused me to begin this conversation as I have with the panel was the sentiment I've heard over and over again that no one is listening to the fans. I am here, listening. I've listened since before Full Circle was published and the reactions started coming fast and furious. Just because you have yet to see the story you'd like, that doesn't mean no one cares. It just means that for now, we're working in a different direction. As I've said repeatedly in these threads, that direction is malleable enough to accomodate lots of story possibilities.

What I have never said, and never will say is that:

Your opinion does not matter.
You should buy the books even if you're not happy with the new direction.
You should just get over it.

Your opinion is yours and is valid. If the new direction does not appeal to you, you shouldn't support it or buy the books.

KB

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Hi, all

My question is, why does Star Trek : Voyager Lit continue to fall back on the old 'yank their chains and then hit the reset button' tease used to such bad effect on the show?

Why oh why after so much teasing and heavy hinting and then a seeming pay-off with the Janeway/Chakotay storyline would you then yank the rug out from under it all at the eleventh hour? How can you expect people to continue to invest in Trek characters and their stories by following breadcrumbs you've dropped in previous novels if you then undo everything with the turn of a page? I know I've lost all patience with Trek Lit, and I'm not the only one.

Kind regards,
Gill

I have to admit, I'm a litle confused by this question, but here goes.

I'm not sure how we've been yanking chains and then hitting the reset button in the new novels. Though I completely agree with you that this was one of the most annoying things about the Voyager episodes that made flagrant use of the reset button, as well as the seeming lack of consequences week after week.

Janeway's death had been established prior to Full Circle. If you are saying that Full Circle yanked chains by showing the consumation of Janeway and Chakotay's relationship, only to kill her a few pages later...that certainly wasn't the intent.

Janeway's death was done (in Before Dishonor). In Full Circle I was given the chance to show several months of story that took place before her death, because that's the point at which the last relaunch novel had left off, so I took it. I asked myself what might logically have happened during that time to all of the characters...not just Janeway...and it seemed to me that based on my understanding of the series, as well as a few breadcrumbs I did think I saw in Christie's books, that at some point Janeway and Chakotay would frankly discuss their relationship now that their duty no longer prevented it from becoming something deeper. I feel like maybe you're saying I shouldn't have done that because I knew she was going to die so why put everyone through the extra pain of knowing what might have been between them. But when I'm writing, I'm not thinking like that. I have to ignore what I know of the future to tell the present in the most honest way I can. I felt the conversation between Janeway and Chakotay that happened at Proxima station was long past due, so I wrote it the first opportunity I had. If you feel I was intentionally trying to deceive you there, I apologize, but that certainly wasn't my intent.

As to your current feelings about the books, that's fine. You see what you see and it does not appeal to you. I'm sorry you feel that way.

KB

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Dear Ms. Beyer,
thank you so much for the opportunity to send my statement and questions to you for being answered or considered in your panel at the Shoreleave Convention 2011.
My name is Dr. Barbara Pommerenke. I come from Germany. You might know me under my nick name Kathryn J. I use on the internet. I’m one of the founders of the Bring Back Kathryn Janeway Campaign and Facebook group. Here are my statement and questions:

Franchise owner CBS, who has to approve every Star Trek book before it gets published, had insisted that Janeway shouldn't be really dead but with the Q. We all know the Q as being extremely self-centered as well as we know Janeway as hating the stagnating life in the Continuum.

#1 Why did the Q save Kathryn Janeway? Why did Janeway go with Lady Q? There has to be a plausible reason, which isn't told yet.

Hi Barbara...at last, we have a chance to talk...and by the way, I think your English is fabulous given that you're from Germany. If I spoke German, I'm sure mine would suck compared to your English.

I think you're right that there has to be a good reason why the Q saved what they did of Janeway, and obviously that story hasn't been told yet. I can't tell you why right now but I can promise you that any story featuring Janeway's return would sure as hell answer that for you...or I wouldn't buy it either.

#2 Are you agreeing with those who say that there are no more stories to tell about Janeway?

Nope. Not even a little. You might look at some of the earlier questions in this thread for more of my thoughts on this, but that's the bottom line.

I worry about the clear sexism in Trek literature. Why else are more female main characters killed than male ones and why is NO female character allowed to come back with normal body and normal power (e.g. Janeway, Jadzia Dax, Tasha Yar, Kes...) while almost every male main character was resurrected after only a short time (Spock, Kirk, Sisko, Trip, Data...). Other female main characters are simply taken off active duty (e.g. by sending them to a monastery like Kira Nerys). The Star Trek characters are FICTIONAL characters, they DON'T HAVE TO die nor stay dead. This is what fictional characters for: To be idols for generations and it would be a shame to deny future generations of women to be inspired by Janeway as a smart commander, brilliant scientist and caring "mother" of the ship. No other Trek character ever inspired and even changed the life of thousands of women all over the world.

#3 How do you feel as a modern, emancipated woman about the sexism in Sci-Fi in general and in Star Trek in particular?

This was actually one of the issues we discussed at some length in the panel at Shore Leave.

I simply don't agree that Trek or Trek literature is sexist. I don't see it. I've looked a little at the math and here's what I see...

Janeway...killed in Trek Lit but still alive in Trek Online continuity.
Jadzia Dax...killed on the series because the actress wanted out of her contract and replaced by Ezri Dax, also a woman.
Tasha Yar...killed on the series because the actress wanted out of her contract and then brought back in "Yesterday's Enterprise" as well as a number of times on screen and in the literature as Sela.
Kes...evolved, used heavily in the String Theory trilogy, and replaced by another woman...Seven of Nine.

Spock...killed on screen and brough back in the next movie.
Kirk...killed on screen and brought back/still alive in the Shatnerverse continuity.
Sisko...killed or taken by the Prophets depending on your opinion on screen and brough back by Trek Lit after 9 books in the series had explored events after his purported death.
Trip...reported dead but never seen on screen and brought back in the first book that appeared after this.
Data...killed onscreen and brought back in the comic books.

I guess I don't see how the men you use as examples are faring significantly better than the women in Trek Lit. You also have to take into account that there are always more men in the various show's ensembles so more of them are going to have stuff happen to them. This has also made me wonder why so many of the female actresses on Trek seem to want to leave the series before they're done but the men really stay put. Maybe the women have better career opportunities after Trek than the men. I don't know.

When you look at the big picture I see plenty of men and women in command positions, though on screen we always see more men than women in the main ensembles...and that does suck but is part of Hollywood. If you figure out how to fix that one, let me know. In Trek Lit, however, we've got so many women in postions of authority...Fleet Commander, Captain Afsarah Eden, leading the Voyager fleet, B'Elanna Torres, Fleet Chief Engineer, Seven of Nine, who has chosen never to accept a rank in Starfleet but is the first person anyone calls when there are Borg issues, including the President of the Federation. Personally, I think Seven has made the right choice. To join Starfleet now wouldn't be so much a promotion as a limit on her freedom as an individual. Nancy Conlon, Voyager's chief engineer. Captain Farkas of the Quirnial. Captain Glenn of the Galen. Captain Ezri Dax of the Aventine. President Bacco and her Chief of Staff, whose name eludes me at the moment. The Romulan President/Praetor, whatever they call her is a women...Captain or is it Admiral Shelby...while the men have Picard, Riker, Sisko, Martok...and...Calhoun?

There are ways to limit the characters you want to include that can sway the numbers to support your preference, but overall, I don't see it. I think it's worth noting that all of this really boils down to killing Kathryn Janeway who was the most prominent female figure in filmed Trek and because it seems the men haven't received the same treatment, that must be evidence of sexism.

I see the reverse. To give Janeway some sort of protected status because of her sex, to say that because she is such a prominent female character, we can't kill her, that's a kind of reverse discrimination that worries me. If we could...and obviously do...kill male characters, why do the women get a pass? If we're really all about IDIC and presenting a universe in which sexism is no longer an issue, then nobody can be special. And the last thing I think about when I'm looking at a person or a character's respective abilities is the configuration of their reproductive organs.

I don't expect you to agree, but that's what I see.

#4 What do you think about taking the most inspiring Trek character to women away from them, when they are obviously the majority of Trek fans?

The base of my statements you can look up here:http://www.newearth-jcparadise.de/bring_back_janeway.php
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Barbara Pommerenke

I think that taking Janeway away for 2 1/2 books when there are still 170+ hours of filmed Voyager and dozens of novels in which she is alive does not limit in any way her ability to function as an inspiration to women of all ages everywhere. I don't judge a person's capacity to inspire by when or how they died. I judge it by how they lived and though Janeway might continue to do more inspirational things were she still alive or to be brought back, I think her legacy is pretty safe.

KB

 

[Guy Gardener]

Death doesn't stop true love, it just slows it down a little.

 

[forrie]

Kirsten,

Here's one for consideration! :-)

What if Kathryn Janeway is really a transsexual and that was her larger reasoning for distance from Chakotay. Only higher-ups in Starfleet and the Doctor knew.

How about that? Poor Chakotay!

(said tongue in cheek, for levity)

Touching on the male/female tangent above, I don't think we see much in terms of the definition of and relativity of gender in Trek, other than simply Male or Female. I suspect any material of that nature would have been a big 'no no' years ago. But not today. For example, The Gatchaman (Battle of the Planets) (anime) had Zoltar, who clearly batted for both teams, but that part of the story was left out of the release in the US.

I'm just saying.

Now Kirsten, if you really want to spin people's heads on this one!

((GRIN))

Okay, back to being serious....

 

[Tidus79001]

In Trek Lit, however, we've got so many women in postions of authority...Fleet Commander, Captain Afsarah Eden, leading the Voyager fleet, B'Elanna Torres, Fleet Chief Engineer, Seven of Nine, who has chosen never to accept a rank in Starfleet but is the first person anyone calls when there are Borg issues, including the President of the Federation. Personally, I think Seven has made the right choice. To join Starfleet now wouldn't be so much a promotion as a limit on her freedom as an individual. Nancy Conlon, Voyager's chief engineer. Captain Farkas of the Quirnial. Captain Glenn of the Galen. Captain Ezri Dax of the Aventine. President Bacco and her Chief of Staff, whose name eludes me at the moment. The Romulan President/Praetor, whatever they call her is a women...Captain or is it Admiral Shelby...while the men have Picard, Riker, Sisko, Martok...and...Calhoun?

Kristen you forgot to mention the female crew of the Starship Columbia NX-02, Captain Rachael Garrett of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-C, and Janice Rand from Star Trek: The Original Series who was able to become much more than her original role of Yeoman to Captain Kirk. Janice Rand started out in what some would call the sexist role of Yeoman, later the she served as transport chief on the USS Enterprise refit, next she underwent officer training & was promoted to the rank of Ensign working at Starfleet Headquaters up to the point of the probe in Star Trek IV, and the last seen after having been promoted to the rank of Lieutenant serving in the position of communications officer on the USS Excelsior NCC-2000. Best scene in the Voyager episode “Flashback” which was intertwined with footage from Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country:

Rand: You’re not going to have time to drink that, you know. You’re due on the bridge in five minutes.

Tuvok: Its not for me -- it’s for the Captain. I have observed that Captain Sulu drinks a of cup of tea each morning. I thought he might enjoy a Vulcan blend.

Rand: Oh, I see. Trying to make Lieutenant in your first month? I wish I’d have thought of that when I was your age. It took me three years just to make Ensign.

Tuvok: I assure you I have no ulterior motive.

Rand: Whatever you say, Ensign. See you on the bridge.

*Rand leaves*
*short pause*

Janeway: (mock dejected) You’ve never brought me tea. (turns and walks away in a mock snub).

Most of the crew of the Columbia NX-02 in the Enterprise books features women in key positions of authority. Here is a list if the female crew on Columbia NX-02:

Captain Erika Hernandez
First officer Commander Veronica Fletcher
Chief Medical Officer Lieutenant Johanna Metzger
Chief of Security/Tactical Officer Lieutenant Kiona Thayer
Communications Officer Ensign Sidra Valerian
Communications Officer Officer Ensign Oliviera
Junior Tactical Officer Ensign Claudia Siguenza (2156)
Junior Tactical Officer Ensign Diane Atlagic
Junior Engineering Officer Ensign Katrin Gunnarsdottir
Junior Engineering Officer Crewman Pierce

I myself have really enjoyed the segments of the Enterprise “Romulan War” saga in the books that feature the Columbia NX-02. It would be nice however if they would devote a set of books to Columbia NX-02 ship & crew as they did to tell the backstory of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-B under the command of Captain John Harriman, and USS Enterprise NCC-1701-C under the command of Captain Rachael Garrett. I have decided to create a new post & poll in the Enterprise sub-forum of the TrekBBS discussing Who else would like a set of books devoted to Columbia NX-02 & crew? To take the poll & post comments go here http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=5103815#post5103815.

When the book “Ships of the line” dangled the carrot in front of my face with the picture showing the Columbia NX-02 found crash landed on the surface of a planet in the Gamma Quadrant & the blurb of a description about its disappearance being one of the most enduring mysteries in Starfleet history really got me interested in that ship & its crew. I was really excited to read the Destiny Trilogy books that told the story of how the ship came to rest there.

I think that taking Janeway away for 2 1/2 books when there are still 170+ hours of filmed Voyager and dozens of novels in which she is alive does not limit in any way her ability to function as an inspiration to women of all ages everywhere. I don't judge a person's capacity to inspire by when or how they died. I judge it by how they lived and though Janeway might continue to do more inspirational things were she still alive or to be brought back, I think her legacy is pretty safe.

KB

Kristen, the books Full Circle, Unworthy, and Children of the Storm equals three books. You can’t call it 2 1/2 books out of convenience with the intent of lessening that it has been 4 years & 3 book later since Janeway was killed off & it can’t be justified by saying it is 2 1/2 books with her dead because the fact is most of Full Circle featured Janeway as a living breathing character ONLY THROUGH the through flashbacks. Janeway was still dead in the timeline of that book.

 

[Nick M]

Bring Back Janeway panel from Shore Leave audio now available

Jolan Tru,

Well, as I figure out this tech stuff I am proud to announce that The G and T Show (a podcast devoted to Trek lit and Trek writing) the Bring Back Janeway panel from the 2011 Shore Leave is now available for you to listen to. It runs just under an hour.

(Ummm, a note to Kirsten Beyer...I was unable to edit the comment at the very begining, I truly am sorry...the one where you say why you are out of breath. I am REALLY sorry!!!!)

You can go to http://www.gandtshow.com and listen to it, or, for those who would like to download it for their iPod or other mp3 device, you can go to: http://t.co/71IXyeb - and *shameless plug* also subscribe to The G and T Show.

I will apologize for the audio from some of the people asking questions, there were some pretty good fans blowing in there and the room was packed, but I think when Ms. Beyer replies to the people you will get what their question was.

Enjoy and hope you become fans of the show!

Nick

 

[Gates]

Thanks, Nick!