Question on transwarp beaming?

[Omega_Glory]

Science-Fiction is designed to make you think, so how-about we do some thinking.

Okie, Dokie. Lets.

It is (if I remember correctly) Very difficult to impossible to transport antimatter (which I assume your talking about)). So it may be impractical to use as an offensive or defensive manoeuvre.

I remember the episode "Obsession" where they transported an antimatter bomb, capable of blowing off half a planet's atmosphere, as a normal transporter operation...with two people holding on to it to boot. Didn't seem too difficult really.

Transporters take time, and when a battle is being fought at even partial light speeds (Let alone warp speeds), a second in time can equate to a hundred thousand kilometres. Once again, this prevents them being used effectively in combat.

I would agree. Only, since warp speed battles aren't possible in JJTrek, it wouldn't matter what type of weapon you had.

Transporters require shields to be dropped, which would defeat both defensive and offensive purposes. Also prevent beaming explosives on-board a battle ready and shielded ship.

As one poster mentioned, why couldn't a weapon be beamed to a point where it would detonate against a shield? Sure, if shields are up, beaming in presents a problem, but if a section of the ship's shields are down, why not.

"No one thinks these things through"

In my experience of trekbbs, it is usually the viewer who cannot rationalise the reasons behind these things. Certainly, its not impossible for a mistake to come through, however most 'mistakes' are simply people who cannot think for themselves.

Thank god we have you to nursemaid us through these diffuculties.

 

[Anticitizen]

You're assuming that Spock didn't simply delete the equations from the computer as soon as Scotty and Kirk transported to the Enterprise.

Nope, apparently Scotty could still do it afterward, evidenced by how he beamed Kirk and Spock all the way from Saturn to the Narada.

 

[SonicRanger]

You're assuming that Spock didn't simply delete the equations from the computer as soon as Scotty and Kirk transported to the Enterprise.

Nope, apparently Scotty could still do it afterward, evidenced by how he beamed Kirk and Spock all the way from Saturn to the Narada.

How is it "transwarp" beaming to transport someone from one stationary position to another?

 

[M'Sharak]

You're assuming that Spock didn't simply delete the equations from the computer as soon as Scotty and Kirk transported to the Enterprise.

Nope, apparently Scotty could still do it afterward, evidenced by how he beamed Kirk and Spock all the way from Saturn to the Narada.

Different operation, that -- long-distance, yes, but not transwarp.

Scotty had said on Delta Vega before Spock showed him the transwarp-transporting formula that he knew how to beam a grapefruit (or a lifeform) from one planet of a system to another. Beaming from Titan to Earth orbit may have been pushing the limits of the technique, but it was already something known to him.

 

[Jeri]

I don't get why people get those mixed up.

Transwarp = moving.

Saturn > Narada = stationary.

 

[Timo]

Didn't the movie make it clear that "transwarp beaming" here simply meant "transporting to or from a warping object"? That was done in TNG and VOY several times, and while it was a bit hair-raising (see "The Schitzoid Man"), it was not considered a technological breakthrough. Scotty could have perfected the tech at any point after the STXI timeframe, say, during TOS already.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[M'Sharak]

Didn't the movie make it clear that "transwarp beaming" here simply meant "transporting to or from a warping object"?

Yes.

That was done in TNG and VOY several times, and while it was a bit hair-raising (see "The Schitzoid Man"), it was not considered a technological breakthrough. Scotty could have perfected the tech at any point after the STXI timeframe, say, during TOS already.

Timo Saloniemi

In "The Schizoid Man", it was not the same thing. In that case, it was referred to as "near-warp" transport, and involved dropping out of warp just long enough to engage the transporter and then returning to warp. Dicey, but not transwarp.

There was use of a subspace transporter in TNG's "Bloodlines", but I can't recall another instance of transwarp beaming.

 

[SonicRanger]

In BOBW, the E-D crew matched warp speeds with the Borg cube in order to beam over while traveling at warp.

 

[Timo]

Yes, warp-to-warp looked fairly routine there. And standstill-to-warp was done e.g. in VOY "Maneuvers", where the Voyager swooped through the Kazon formation at rather high warp and grabbed Chakotay from one of the idled ships into a transporter beam.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[npsf3000]

I remember the episode "Obsession" where they transported an antimatter bomb, capable of blowing off half a planet's atmosphere, as a normal transporter operation...with two people holding on to it to boot. Didn't seem too difficult really.

Done some reading, seems to be a confused point, so i'll go with you can if you really want to - that said if you want to transport something in a battle where power might cut out any second go ahead.

I would agree. Only, since warp speed battles aren't possible in JJTrek, it wouldn't matter what type of weapon you had.

Even if warp speed battles are not possible, 1/10th the speed of light will put your speed at 30Mm/s, unless you get a perfect hit any change in direction will put enormous distances between you and the explosion.

As one poster mentioned, why couldn't a weapon be beamed to a point where it would detonate against a shield? Sure, if shields are up, beaming in presents a problem, but if a section of the ship's shields are down, why not.

Yeah, but i'm assuming transporters are Line of sight devices. So to transport a torpedo against someone's shield your risking a phaser and/or torpedo impact against your hull.


Furthermore it could be a simple thing like Electronic warfare preventing transporters beaming bombs around the place.

 

[Omega_Glory]

Did they use EW in Trek? I don't remember a reference except for jamming communications.

In TOS transporting through shields was impossible, so yes the shields would have to be lowered. But by TNG era, they were transporting through shields (friendly) regularly, so such a tactic still has merit.

Transporting while moving seems to have been done before. I mean if sublight speeds will inhibit transport because of the precision needed, then the only way to board a ship would be while sitting still. I don't think thats the way its been shown.

As far as TOS episode "Obsession", there's nothing confused about it. Kirk and Lt Garrovick beamed down to a planet while holding an antimatter bomb. They used it to kill a cloud creature. Just watch the episode and you'll be cleared up on that one.

 

[npsf3000]

Transporting while moving seems to have been done before. I mean if sublight speeds will inhibit transport because of the precision needed, then the only way to board a ship would be while sitting still. I don't think thats the way its been shown

There is a difference between beaming aboard another ship while moving, and beaming aboard an enemy ship specifically moving to prevent you from gaining a target lock.

As far as TOS episode "Obsession", there's nothing confused about it. Kirk and Lt Garrovick beamed down to a planet while holding an antimatter bomb. They used it to kill a cloud creature. Just watch the episode and you'll be cleared up on that one.

From my understanding A) that's not in a space battle and B) there have been other references made that indicate beaming antimatter is either impossible or only possible in small amounts - trek isn't always uniform about its techs.

[Quote tags added for proper attribution and clarity. - M']

 

[Omega_Glory]

It certainly isn't impossible to beam anti-matter as it was also done in Voyager. And small amounts are all that is needed.

Once you have a target lock, I doubt that the slow maneuvers we've typically seen on Trek will affect transporter accuracy. Relative speeds between ships have virtually always been shown to be just a few hundred meters per second difference. There have been exceptions to be sure, but generally, it isn't difficult to get and maintain a targetting lock in Star Trek.

 

[Lt. Trull]

it isn't difficult to get and maintain a targetting lock in Star Trek.

Unless ur chekov and there's one to many people and one is standing near the edge of a cliff...

 

[Omega_Glory]

Well, in this incarnation of Trek, Chekov is a 17yr old kid after all.