Question for writers here

[Christopher]

More power to you. S&S used to periodically do collected stories written by fans. I recall there were a number of conditions and they had to be short stories basically. But IIRC a few of our resident novelists may have started that way--though I don't recall who. But it's been a while since they did that.

The Strange New Worlds anthologies were not "fan fiction collections" as they're often misrepresented to be. They were more along the lines of the L. Ron Hubbard Writers of the Future contest anthologies -- an opportunity for novice writers to get their first (or second or third) professional credits. Fan fiction means fiction written purely for recreation. SNW was about giving aspiring professional writers a chance to break into the field. It wasn't writing for fun, it was applying for a job.

Note that a few SNW writers have gone on to have substantial writing careers outside of Star Trek. For example, Geoffrey Thorne has gone on to become a TV writer-producer on shows such as Leverage and The Librarians, while R.S. Belcher and Robert T. Jeschonek have become known for their original fantasy novels. SNW wasn't just for people who liked Star Trek, it was for people who wanted to be professional writers.

It does sound like it's incredibly difficult to get to be an official tie-in writer these days. It sounds like you have to basically establish yourself before you can even be considered to be a novelists for Star Trek.

Being a pro writer takes a lot of commitment and years of hard work and perseverence in the face of constant rejection. It's not enough just to love Star Trek; you have to love writing in and of itself, to have a passion for creating whether it's in your favorite franchise or worlds of your own invention. A writing career means you frequently fail to sell the specific stories you want to tell, so that you have to change course and try something else and something else until one thing or another finally works. If your entire ambition is to do only one thing, then you're unlikely to get anywhere.

Heck, it's like any other career. There are only so many job openings at a given company, so you have to be willing to apply for jobs elsewhere if you want to get work.

 

[valkyrie013]

I'd say, if you want to write a star trek story.. write it.. and have other people read it, freinds, family etc. and make comments on how to improve, maybe pass it by an editor if you have the ability.. Hone your writing skills on something you like to write about, but keep in mind that you have to write something original eventually to get recognized.
You can also hone that novel idea, and when you do make it, submit it as a possible novel for them. but don't get discouraged if they reject it or just keep the name or general idea.. Its there property

 

[Damian]

The Strange New Worlds anthologies were not "fan fiction collections" as they're often misrepresented to be. They were more along the lines of the L. Ron Hubbard Writers of the Future contest anthologies -- an opportunity for novice writers to get their first (or second or third) professional credits. Fan fiction means fiction written purely for recreation. SNW was about giving aspiring professional writers a chance to break into the field. It wasn't writing for fun, it was applying for a job.

True. I was oversimplifying things.

Though I hope for the pros that writing Star Trek is at least a little bit of fun

Probably why I never made it past page 2 though. Obviously there were only so many slots for stories in SNW so whatever someone wrote had to be good and from an aspiring professional, and not just some average fan off the street. Writing original fiction just isn't in my tool box. I got as far as a basic idea for a story but I couldn't flesh it out beyond that. But even just that miniscule amount of effort was enough to give me a better appreciation for what fiction writers have to put in their stories. In some ways I think it might be more difficult to write fiction because you basically have to make everything up as you go along, make it at least somewhat believable AND entertaining. With tie-ins I guess it might help in the sense that you at least have a framework to work from. You have a basic structure and you don't have to create everything from scratch.

 

[Christopher]

You can also hone that novel idea, and when you do make it, submit it as a possible novel for them. but don't get discouraged if they reject it or just keep the name or general idea.. Its there property

That's not the way it works. First off, they wouldn't steal a writer's work like that. The characters and universe are their property, so you can't profit from a story about them without their permission and participation; but any specific thing you write doesn't become their property unless they pay you for it. Plagiarism is a crime. Of course, general ideas are a dime a dozen; any given broad-strokes idea is likely to be come up with by many different people, and indeed one of the most common reasons for getting an idea rejected is that someone else already sold it to them. But that's exactly why they don't need to steal someone's general idea.

Second, even when they did allow spec novel submissions, they'd almost never buy the actual novel you wrote. Because it's not single novels they were looking for, it was writers. People they could count on to do multiple ideas, people who could prove they were talented and professional and able to follow instructions and work with an editor. The work you submitted was just an audition, a demo for your own abilities. Rather than buying and publishing the book you wrote, they'd hire you to write something else that you developed under an editor's supervision and got approved by the studio before you were given the go-ahead to write it.

A tie-in writer is basically a contractor. The publisher has a job they want done, they hire you to do it, you suggest a plan for doing it, they approve it (or reject it and ask you to suggest something else), then you do the work as agreed upon. Original fiction is very different: There, you're your own boss, you decide what gets written and how, and then you try to find someone who'll buy it from you.

Though I hope for the pros that writing Star Trek is at least a little bit of fun

Of course it is, but it's also a job. Which makes it very different from doing something exclusively for fun. If you're lucky, you can get a career doing something you love, but it's still a career, not just a hobby.

 

[trampledamage]

Of course if you just want to write something for the sake of writing it, there is always AO3.

Or indeed our own Fan Fiction forum *waves vaguely at a point further down the forum index*

 

[Damian]

Of course it is, but it's also a job. Which makes it very different from doing something exclusively for fun. If you're lucky, you can get a career doing something you love, but it's still a career, not just a hobby.

Yeah, I know. I was just speaking tongue in cheek.

Still, in some ways I envy you guys. You're Star Trek fans too, and you got to make a career out of something that to many people like myself is a hobby.

That's not the same as saying it's easy though, or even secure. I imagine you have to hope the calls keep coming in for books and when there is a long hiatus like 2018 I imagine that can get stressful. And I don't imagine writing a book is a cakewalk either.

I'm happy and grateful to have a steady 9-5 type job where I get a paycheck every other week, raises, benefits and all that. I wouldn't particularly be fond of not having that security. So I can't complain.

 

[Little_kingsfan]

The last time they did I considered writing a story myself. I'm always complaining about how I'd love more post TFF novels so I figured I'd do my story in that time frame. But I barely got through two pages and it was awful. I don't have much of an artistic mindset and I think in many ways a writer is an artist. It's not just the main plot, but the characterizations, the dialogue, the thoughts of your characters and the scenery, among a million other things. I have an enormous amount of respect for novelists because it can't be easy writing a 300+ page book that people enjoy reading. And it can probably be easier to go on tangents if you're not careful and lose sight of the main plot.

I know exactly how you feel. I have so many ideas swirling around in my head (most of which I've shared with other people, some I've kept to myself), I've got years of stories built up in my head and I even manage to spin off my own ideas when suddenly an ancillary character takes on a life of his/her own and I want to write that story instead and/or in addition to, but when I find myself trying to actually write something - other than an anime-style Pokemon battle (the only story I've ever managed to finish and that was years ago) - I run into problems between most of the things you mentioned.

Plagiarism is a crime. Of course, general ideas are a dime a dozen; any given broad-strokes idea is likely to be come up with by many different people, and indeed one of the most common reasons for getting an idea rejected is that someone else already sold it to them. But that's exactly why they don't need to steal someone's general idea.

Again, a concept which I am very familiar with. Heck, even once upon a time - a few years before Rise of the Federation - came out, I came up with an idea for how members of the United Earth Starfleet, Andorian Imperial Guard, Vulcan Defense Force and Tellar Space Administration each sent members of their respective services to serve in a Joint Star Fleet, commanded by Admiral Jonathan Archer, after the signing of the Articles of the Federation and establishment of the United Federation of Planets. When Rise of the Federation came out, it was so much better than anything/everything I thought up so I pretty much just set it aside and never looked at it again (except to gauge how much I've improved as a wannabe-writer over the years).

 

[Greg Cox]

Of course, general ideas are a dime a dozen; any given broad-strokes idea is likely to be come up with by many different people, and indeed one of the most common reasons for getting an idea rejected is that someone else already sold it to them. But that's exactly why they don't need to steal someone's general idea.

Yes, people underestimate the degree to which different people can independently come up with the same basic idea, and especially so when you're dealing with such well-trodden ground as Star Trek, vampires, cozy mysteries, spy novels, westerns, or whatever.

Back when I was reading the slush at Arbor House, I once received two multigenerational family sagas set in Appalachia on the very same day. Neither was ripping off the other; that's just how it works sometimes.

And, yes, when it comes to rejecting submissions, sometimes it really is a case of "I'm sorry, but we just bought another runaway mermaid trilogy last week."

 

[Stevil2001]

IIRC, John Ordover used to recommend getting two science fiction novels published before attempting to pitch a proposal and sample chapters for a Trek novel.

I don't feel like this tracks with how people actually become "Star Trek writers." I certainly didn't do this. And of all the currently working Star Trek writers I can think of, most had no novel sales before writing a Star Trek book as far as I can tell:

• Christopher Bennett
• Dayton Ward
• David Mack
• Una McCormack
• Dave Galanter
• Kirsten Beyer
• David R. George III

Greg Cox had co-written a "Robert Silverberg's Time Tours" novel before co-writing his first Trek story. John Jackson Miller wrote a number of novels before writing a Star Trek one, but almost entirely tie-in (except for the original Overdraft: The Orion Offensive). James Swallow had a series of original novels from Scholastic before doing Warharmmer 40,000 and Doctor Who tie-ins, and then Star Trek, so he's the one who actually did it how John claimed.

 

[Christopher]

Yes, people underestimate the degree to which different people can independently come up with the same basic idea, and especially so when you're dealing with such well-trodden ground as Star Trek, vampires, cozy mysteries, spy novels, westerns, or whatever.

When I sent in my spec script to TNG back in the day, it was ten days later that they aired an episode ("The Quality of Life") based on roughly the same concept of Data hypothesizing that a certain entity was a sentient AI and standing up for its protection. It even had a specific beat in common with my spec script, that it was an offhand joke of Geordi's that got Data suspecting the entity's sentience. As soon as I realized where the episode was going, I thought, "So much for my spec script."

Later on, when I pitched for DS9 and VGR, several of my ideas happened to parallel stories they did later or were already planning to do. One of the VGR ideas I pitched to Joe Menosky gave him pause because it resembled an original feature film script he'd written!

I don't feel like this tracks with how people actually become "Star Trek writers." I certainly didn't do this. And of all the currently working Star Trek writers I can think of, most had no novel sales before writing a Star Trek book as far as I can tell:

I had two original story sales to Analog, though. And I think most of the writers you mention came to the editors' attention in other ways. Dayton was an SNW winner. Dave Mack had sold a couple of story outlines to DS9. Dave Galanter started as a writing partner of Gregory Brodeur, the husband of Diane Carey and an uncredited collaborator on most of her novels. I just got to know Keith and Marco when they were regulars here on the BBS and actively recruiting new talent.

I think the advice John Ordover offered was aimed more at the general public, people who didn't have other connections or opportunities to provide their first breaks.

 

[Damian]

I know exactly how you feel. I have so many ideas swirling around in my head (most of which I've shared with other people, some I've kept to myself), I've got years of stories built up in my head and I even manage to spin off my own ideas when suddenly an ancillary character takes on a life of his/her own and I want to write that story instead and/or in addition to, but when I find myself trying to actually write something - other than an anime-style Pokemon battle (the only story I've ever managed to finish and that was years ago) - I run into problems between most of the things you mentioned.

You probably got farther than I did. I started with the idea that I wanted it to be post TFF, because that's always an era I thought was underserved by novels (or at least there hasn't been a lot of stories in that era). Then I thought it would be interesting, though not unprecedented or even uncommon, to start from the end before picking up at the beginning of the story and going from there.

But that's basically as far as it got. I had a broad outline of the story I wanted to tell but after page 2 it really read like a newspaper column.

 

[Greg Cox]

Greg Cox had co-written a "Robert Silverberg's Time Tours" novel before co-writing his first Trek story. .

I'm not sure there's a standard route to becoming a Trek writer. In my case, I had been selling short stories to periodicals like AMAZING STORIES and MIKE SHAYNE MYSTERY MAGAZINE since the early eighties and had also written a non-fiction book on the history of vampire literature, published by a small academic press. I'd also written a couple of BATMAN short stories for DC Comics, which is how I got my foot in the door when it came to media tie-in fiction.

Perhaps more importantly, by that point I was already working full-time as a science fiction editor at Tor Books, which is where I first worked with John Ordover. He and I had both been assistant editors at Tor back in the day, and had also worked together on The New York Review of Science Fiction where (surprise!) I reviewed vampire novels. So we'd known each other for a while by the time John ended up running the Trek line--and needed new writers to handle the load when DS9 came along.

Over the years, I gradually segued from being a full-time science-fiction editor who wrote tie-ins on the side to a full-time tie-in writer who still does some editing on the side.

I'm writing jacket copy for a Tor book this afternoon, in fact, or at least that's what I'm supposed to be doing.

 

[Damian]

I'm not sure there's a standard route to becoming a Trek writer. In my case, I had been selling short stories to periodicals like AMAZING STORIES and MIKE SHAYNE MYSTERY MAGAZINE since the early eighties and had also written a non-fiction book on the history of vampire literature, published by a small academic press. I'd also written a couple of BATMAN short stories for DC Comics, which is how I got my foot in the door when it came to media tie-in fiction.

Perhaps more importantly, by that point I was already working full-time as a science fiction editor at Tor Books, which is where I first worked with John Ordover. He and I had both been assistant editors at Tor back in the day, and had also worked together on The New York Review of Science Fiction where (surprise!) I reviewed vampire novels. So we'd known each other for a while by the time John ended up running the Trek line--and needed new writers to handle the load when DS9 came along.

Over the years, I gradually segued from being a full-time science-fiction editor who wrote tie-ins on the side to a full-time tie-in writer who still does some editing on the side.

I'm writing jacket copy for a Tor book this afternoon, in fact, or at least that's what I'm supposed to be doing.

It's interesting to read all the various ways you guys started writing Trek fiction. Sometimes it's easy to forget that you just didn't wake up one day and voila, you wrote a Star Trek novel and lived happily ever after. That there was a lot of work involved just to get invited to the Star Trek party.

In a way, though, that's probably a good thing. Star Trek is important enough to S&S that they sort of expect you to be a professional writer (or at the very least aspiring professional) before they'll even let you put your foot in the door.

 

[Christopher]

In a way, though, that's probably a good thing. Star Trek is important enough to S&S that they sort of expect you to be a professional writer (or at the very least aspiring professional) before they'll even let you put your foot in the door.

I think that's true of any tie-in, really. The purpose of tie-ins is to promote and supplement the original series. If you're the owner of the series and you license a publisher to do your tie-ins, then you want and expect the people hired to do the work to be skilled professionals. It's the same as any other situation where you'd hire a contractor to do work for you.

 

[Kor]

I’ve been thinking to get back into writing and I’ve always wanted to write a Star Trek novel. Who knows if I’ll ever get it published, but I just wanted to write it for myself and if I get it published: great.

I wanted to buy a simple laptop just for writing. Don’t really need it for movies, games or anything fancy.

Do you guys recommend a laptop?

Out of curiosity, what kind of writing have you done before? Did you ever have any of it published?
I'm thinking of submitting a short story to my alma mater's literary magazine, as a prof encouraged me to do when I was a student. It was originally something I wrote for a class. That's about the extent of my literary aspirations, though.

Kor

 

[Stephen!]

When I sent in my spec script to TNG back in the day, it was ten days later that they aired an episode ("The Quality of Life") based on roughly the same concept of Data hypothesizing that a certain entity was a sentient AI and standing up for its protection. It even had a specific beat in common with my spec script, that it was an offhand joke of Geordi's that got Data suspecting the entity's sentience. As soon as I realized where the episode was going, I thought, "So much for my spec script."

Is professional writing something you've always done, or did you work in other jobs before that?

 

[David Mack]

Dave Mack had sold a couple of story outlines to DS9.

Actually, John Ordover and I had the coveted "written by" credit on the DS9 season-four episode "Starship Down." We shared the story credit on season seven's "It's Only a Paper Moon," and we had sold another story to Voyager that ended up not being produced for reasons unrelated to the story itself.

 

[Greg Cox]

In a way, though, that's probably a good thing. Star Trek is important enough to S&S that they sort of expect you to be a professional writer (or at the very least aspiring professional) before they'll even let you put your foot in the door.

I can't speak for S&S, but as someone who has edited plenty of tie-ins and novelizations, I can testify that your first instinct when it comes to these kinda books is to hire somebody you have worked with before and who you know is reliable and plays well with others. There can be a lot of cooks involved with licensed projects so you want make life easier for yourself by reducing the chances of any sort of issue with the writer.

That's a big part of why you tend to see the same names popping up on such books.

 

[Christopher]

Is professional writing something you've always done, or did you work in other jobs before that?

I've had a few part-time jobs, but have mostly managed to get by as a full-time writer thanks to my regular Trek work. Unfortunately, that's been much less the case in the last few years, and I've been off the job market so long that I'm having a hard time finding additional employment. It's not a choice I'd recommend to anyone else.

Actually, John Ordover and I had the coveted "written by" credit on the DS9 season-four episode "Starship Down." We shared the story credit on season seven's "It's Only a Paper Moon," and we had sold another story to Voyager that ended up not being produced for reasons unrelated to the story itself.

Oops, sorry for misremembering.

I can't speak for S&S, but as someone who has edited plenty of tie-ins and novelizations, I can testify that your first instinct when it comes to these kinda books is to hire somebody you have worked with before and who you know is reliable and plays well with others. There can be a lot of cooks involved with licensed projects so you want make life easier for yourself by reducing the chances of any sort of issue with the writer.

That's a big part of why you tend to see the same names popping up on such books.

I'm grateful that I came along at a time when two of Pocket's Trek editors, KRAD and Marco Palmieri, were actively seeking new talent. KRAD used S.C.E. as something of a tryout book for newcomers, giving a shot to a lot of first-timers like me (well, I was a third-timer overall, counting my Analog stories).

 

[Greg Cox]

I worked the usual assortment of odd jobs back in my starving writer days: washing dishes, bussing tables, draining blood from winos . . . .

Seriously. I used to work as a phlebotomist at a skid-row plasma-collection center.

I also used to write the cover copy for "adult" westerns for $80 a shot:

"Slocum rustles up a whole passel of frolicsome fillies . . .. "