Question about warp nacelles and radiation

[Solarbaby]

I have been looking at some designs of 3d models on sketchup and there is one guy who has commented on a few ships that in reality the radiation from the nacelles would kill people too close to them.

Take this one for instance that I designed

Apparently the nacelles are too close to the main hull.

I don't recall seeing an episode where the radiation posed a danger. Thats what forcefields are for.

Also there are other canon designs that have the nacelles much closer. i.e. the Oberth class http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/lcars24-sheet-23.jpg The nacelles are connected to the saucer section directly.

The defiant http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/lcars24-sheet-3.jpg The engines are connected in the middle of the hull and recessed.

Nebula class http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/lcars24-cover.jpg Nacelles are very close to underneath of saucer section and secondary hull

Prometheus class http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/lcars24-sheet-14.jpg The Nacelle are very close to aft section and 4 times the radiation.

My last point of argument that the proximity of nacelles to habitable hull areas is not a major issue the use of photon torpedos to carry single passangers at warp speed. If all necelles emit radiation then the forcefield strong enough to sheild the humanoid in the torpedo casing would probabaly have a harmful effect. If there was a danger of radiation I doubt any design would have the nacelles close to the main hull. In fact I doubt there would be any lethal radiation. What if there was a power failure and forcefields collapsed, albeit a rare occurrence, but still there would be no redundant backup for the radiation flooding the rest of the ship.

Of course I understand that warp drive is all theory and impossible to say how it would really work. But as a sci fi show with rules about the laws of physics etc I don't see how the nacelles would be that lethal as close proximity to habitable areas.

Can anyone shed any light on this either way?

 

[Christopher]

I think your critic's heart is in the right place but his timing is off. Matt Jefferies's original intent in putting the engine nacelles on long pylons separate from the inhabited body of the ship was predicated on the notion that their radiation would be hazardous, yes. But there have been too many subsequent canonical ship designs that have put the warp nacelles right up against the hull, including the Defiant and the DS9 runabout. Not to mention all the engine rooms from TMP onward that have put the antimatter reactor, which would by all rights be a humongous radiation and heat source, right in the middle of an occupied room. Realistically that would roast the entire crew just from the sheer waste heat, but we're expected to accept the conceit that there's some kind of magically perfect shielding.

So while the idea of engines being kept far outboard for radiation safety is a sensible one in theory, and does reflect the original intent of Matt Jefferies in 1964, for better or worse it's long been a dead letter where Star Trek canon is concerned.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I suppose one could argue that by the 24th-Century, warp engine technology had progressed to the point that the minimum safe distance between the nacelles and the ship's hull has been greatly reduced, allowing for closer nacelle placement.

But I thought it was more of case of the nacelles being in line-of-sight with one another rather than actual distance from the hull. I mean, if you look at the original Enterprise, the distance between the nacelles and the rear of the saucer section isn't all that far, IMO...

 

[Timo]

Indeed. And the line-of-sight idea is already debunked by the model used for the Aurora space yacht, where the entire craft rests right between the nacelles. So apparently the nacelles never had safety issues as such. Perhaps they were separate cylinders for ease of maintenance or some such reason?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

Or they could have been fuel pods, with the Aurora's main drive located in the very rear of the ship's main hull. Being a civilian ship, its engine configuration could have been different from that of most Starfleet vessels.

In TOS-Remastered, the ship was totally redesigned so that the nacelles were lowered, pushed farther back, and in line of sight of each other.

 

[timelord1010]

I always thought of the Warp field as having energy similar to a gravity field that allows the space around the ship to be warped. As far as we know gravity waves or gravitons are not harmful to life unless it causes us to age or causes cancer.

 

[Solarbaby]

Thanks. All the points make sense

 

[T'Girl]

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the Aurora space yacht, where the entire craft rests right between the nacelles

The location of the engines and the length of the struts might have more to do with the intensity of the warp field, rather than the radiation from the reactors (gamma rays and neutrinos). The yacht Aurora was (my interpretation) small and light, moving at, maybe, warp five. The small distance between the engines and the habitat area of the yacht would exceed the warp field danger radius. The Enterprise is a different story, the ship is large and massive. the strut have to be longer to separate the engines from the engineering areas. Moving at warp eight, the warp field danger radius would be larger than the Aurora's. Being able to move at warp eight might require the engines be in line-of-sight of each other.