Question about the 'year of hell' concept.

[at Quark's]

In the episode Before and After (3x21), we see Kes traveling back in time through a possible future. In it, the year of hell, Krenim, and chroniton torpedoes are first mentioned. At the time, it seemed just like one of these one-time mentions, never to be heard from again.

Then, in the next season, there is a two parter devoted to the Krenim and the 'year of hell'.

I'm curious ... did they already have the intention to make such an episode by the time Before and After was made? Or was it just something they decided to capitalize on at a later date?

 

[F. King Daniel]

The original plan was for the Year of Hell to be an entire season, but that idea was nixed. They reused elements of that idea (temporal weapons, ongoing and increasing damage to the ship) in Enterprise's Xindi arc

 

[MadeIndescribable]

The original plan was for the Year of Hell to be an entire season, but that idea was nixed. They reused elements of that idea (temporal weapons, ongoing and increasing damage to the ship) in Enterprise's Xindi arc

Interesting concept, and I guess Voyager season 4 was about the time when continuing arcs started becoming a thing (X Files, Buffy, etc)

 

[Refuge]

The original plan was for the Year of Hell to be an entire season, but that idea was nixed. They reused elements of that idea (temporal weapons, ongoing and increasing damage to the ship) in Enterprise's Xindi arc

Is that right. It was a brilliant episode but it might have been a drag if it had played out for an entire season.

 

[at Quark's]

^perhaps. I enjoyed the Dominion war arc in DS9, but I didn't enjoy the Delphi Expanse arc in ENT as much and found it dragging sometimes.

Don't know exactly what makes the difference though, can't put my finger on it. Could even be that it was I who was different (about 10-15 years older) when I saw the second one.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

^perhaps. I enjoyed the Dominion war arc in DS9, but I didn't enjoy the Delphi Expanse arc in ENT as much and found it dragging sometimes.

Don't know exactly what makes the difference though, can't put my finger on it. Could even be that it was I who was different (about 10-15 years older) when I saw the second one.

I suppose the whole point of DS9 was that it continued several arcs throughout its whole run, picking up each one as and when. With Enterprise though, you went from an episodic series to suddenly having a whole big chunck of serial, which was quite a change.

Probably would have been pretty much the same for Voyager, but also having to drop the whole "getting home" thread to do so?

 

[at Quark's]

^Well I must say that from the beginning, I had hoped for Enterprise to be, perhaps not less episodic, but to show more of an underlying buildup leading to the actual founding of the Federation. That didn't begin in earnest until S4, or mayby by extension, S3, so in that case I still should have seen it as important progress.

Probably would have been pretty much the same for Voyager, but also having to drop the whole "getting home" thread to do so?

Well not necessarily drop it, I suppose, just shifted in priority. First priority trying to survive those Krenim attacks and getting through their territory safely, then trying to get home. So to speak, they would attempt to use a tetrion-based catapult machine to get home in the middle of Krenim territory with a startup period of three days, but only after making certain that the Krenim wouldn't reach them before they had their slingshot.

 

[Refuge]

I can't speak for Enterprise but from what I saw of DS9 it needed to have pedestrian arcs because it was limited by its lack of movement, literally. They were never going to uncover something fresh and new, they were just there like a utility.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

^Well I must say that from the beginning, I had hoped for Enterprise to be, perhaps not less episodic, but to show more of an underlying buildup leading to the actual founding of the Federation. That didn't begin in earnest until S4, or mayby by extension, S3, so in that case I still should have seen it as important progress.

It seemed to me like their thinking was they would automatically have seven seasons and they would get to it eventually, which backfired when they weren't. Ironically, if they had started the birth of the federation earlier, it might have been more popular and lasted longer.

Well not necessarily drop it, I suppose, just shifted in priority. First priority trying to survive those Krenim attacks and getting through their territory safely, then trying to get home.

The problem is how long do you spend in Krenim space? Either you go slow enough to take a whole season to cross it, or get through it quickly in which case how do you reset the timeline at the end?

Speaking of which, having an entire season which then essentially didn't happen would ask the audience for a lot of investment in something which wouldn't have any narrative payoffs any further down the line.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

I can't speak for Enterprise but from what I saw of DS9 it needed to have pedestrian arcs because it was limited by its lack of movement, literally. They were never going to uncover something fresh and new, they were just there like a utility.

If I remember rightly, DS9 was partly developed as a response to all the TOS/ENG eps where a planet's civilisation is drastically altered forever, and then forgotten about. It was always designed as more about consequences than the fresh and new.

 

[at Quark's]

It seemed to me like their thinking was they would automatically have seven seasons and they would get to it eventually, which backfired when they weren't. Ironically, if they had started the birth of the federation earlier, it might have been more popular and lasted longer.

Perhaps, yes. I think though that when ENT started, the Trek franchise was already waning in popularity. Also, I don't think it was a given for the previous shows they would run for 7 years, so that would be a dangerous assumption.

The problem is how long do you spend in Krenim space? Either you go slow enough to take a whole season to cross it, or get through it quickly in which case how do you reset the timeline at the end?

Speaking of which, having an entire season which then essentially didn't happen would ask the audience for a lot of investment in something which wouldn't have any narrative payoffs any further down the line.

True. If you want that reset button at the end, it becomes a lot harder to stretch it out for a full year rather than just a two-parter.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

They could have done a compromised reset, where they destroy the Krenim timeship to start the incursion, but some technobabble with the temporal shielding keeps the beaten down Voyager still beaten down.

Voyager, falling apart, is then hailed by a Krenim ship who offers their assistance with some minor repairs, before moving them along since their 'borders are in dispute' or whatever it was they said.

Although, that probably would have resulted in wiping out the entire crew still in the escape pods. And a year of hell would not have been the year of hell without the escape pod scene and Janeway's speech.

 

[Refuge]

If I remember rightly, DS9 was partly developed as a response to all the TOS/ENG eps where a planet's civilisation is drastically altered forever, and then forgotten about. It was always designed as more about consequences than the fresh and new.

I can't convey my disappointment when I realised DS 9 was going to be set on a.. station. Oh no! Why did they do that? How can you explore the universe stuck in one spot? That it was supposed to be about feudal politics meant we concentrated on the characters like a soap opera. Mind you I have forgiven it a little as a new disappointment takes its place.. Discovery set in the 'old' days..

 

[MadeIndescribable]

How can you explore the universe stuck in one spot? That it was supposed to be about feudal politics meant we concentrated on the characters like a soap opera.

Being stuck in one spot, on the frontier of Federation Space, means that you can explore in greater detail. DS9 might not have featured as many races as the other series, but we got to know the Bajorans/Cardassians/Dominion so much better than we got to know the planets of the week from TOS etc.

 

[Refuge]

Yeah I gather there are those who liked that about DS9 but I'm part of the mentality that 'these are the voyages of the ..' 'to bold go where..' I felt sorry for Sisko, it was like he got to captain a transit station.

 

[Prax]

In the episode Before and After (3x21), we see Kes traveling back in time through a possible future. In it, the year of hell, Krenim, and chroniton torpedoes are first mentioned. At the time, it seemed just like one of these one-time mentions, never to be heard from again.

Then, in the next season, there is a two parter devoted to the Krenim and the 'year of hell'.

I'm curious ... did they already have the intention to make such an episode by the time Before and After was made? Or was it just something they decided to capitalize on at a later date?

So, I know this contradicts what other posters have said, but Year of Hell was planned to be the 2 part Season 3 finale/season 4 premier, not a whole season. It was originally written with Kes in mind, so Seven of nine ends up filling her role in the actual episode. I could try to find some more info on this, but I'm assuming the ending would have been the same. It was replaced by Scorpion to introduce Seven.

Before & After was written by Kenneth Biller(who would become show runner of Season 7) and aired in April of 1997.

In the summer of 1997, Year of Hell was promoted on TV as the sequel to Before & After.

And Year of Hell aired in November of 1997. It was written by Brannon Braga(Showrunner of Season's 4,5, and 6) and Joe Menosky(IMO, a real "unsung hero" of Star Trek writers)

So yeah....ahhh, the 90's...

 

[Refuge]

I think Kes could have easily played the Seven role.

 

[virtualvoyager]

I think three or four episodes, definitely should of been for the Equinox story episode.

 

[MacLeod]

Interesting concept, and I guess Voyager season 4 was about the time when continuing arcs started becoming a thing (X Files, Buffy, etc)

Arcs have always been around, DW did some with the likes of "The Key to Time" and "Trail of a Time Lord".

^perhaps. I enjoyed the Dominion war arc in DS9, but I didn't enjoy the Delphi Expanse arc in ENT as much and found it dragging sometimes.

Don't know exactly what makes the difference though, can't put my finger on it. Could even be that it was I who was different (about 10-15 years older) when I saw the second one.

I think it the case of the Delphic Expanse season long arc, is a bit like 24 at times there was just too much padding, you could easily have lost half a dozen episodes and told the story

 

[wew]

I would have found Voyager a bit more interesting had it followed a pattern to that shown during the Equinox Episodes.