I just finished watching "Thine Own Self" again. I think I have a general understanding of how the ranking in Star Fleet works, but I'm a little lost on one detail. Deanna takes the Bridge Officers test and rises from Lieutenant-Commander to Commander. Data also performs bridge duties but his rank remains at Lieutenant-Commander. Did Data not take the Bridge test, hence he is not a Commander? How then does he operate on the Bridge?
Question about Rank: Bridge Officer Test, "Thine Own Self"
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As I understand it, the Bridge Officers test, can be taken at pretty much anytime. Saavik seemed to have taken it as either the Kobayashi Maru or some test we didn't see, and was able to take the big chair, as Kirk let her do. Troi's test was also a no win scenario test, a version of the Kobayashi Maru. By taking the test she moved up a rank.
Data may have taken his test in the Academy, or sometime early in his career and moved up a rank and became a Bridge Officer. He could have jumped from Ensign to Lt. J.G., or Lt. J.G. to Lt. Lt. to Lt. Commander and now must go up the ranks in some other manner, like Advanced Tactical Training like Ro did, or just by time and job performance to get the three gold pips.
Data may have taken his test in the Academy, or sometime early in his career and moved up a rank and became a Bridge Officer. He could have jumped from Ensign to Lt. J.G., or Lt. J.G. to Lt. Lt. to Lt. Commander and now must go up the ranks in some other manner, like Advanced Tactical Training like Ro did, or just by time and job performance to get the three gold pips.
It could be for officers who are typically outwith the normal command structure, such as medical officers or counsellors, who want to progress in their career.
I always thought that only blue-shirted officers, like scientists or doctors or counselors, had to take that test to advance to CDR rank. Those in the command or engineering tracks probably don't have to.
Or perhaps the test isn't a requirement for rank, but is required for anyone who wants to stand watch on the bridge. Thus, people like McCoy and Pulaski may not have had to take the test - so while they have the rank, they can't actually be in command. Troi did, because she wanted a bridge watch, but they didn't.
Or perhaps the test isn't a requirement for rank, but is required for anyone who wants to stand watch on the bridge. Thus, people like McCoy and Pulaski may not have had to take the test - so while they have the rank, they can't actually be in command. Troi did, because she wanted a bridge watch, but they didn't.
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Yeah, I figure the Bridge Officer Test is just necessary to become a Bridge Officer. Troi may have checked all the boxes, but couldn't become a Commander until she passed the test (apparently all Commanders require at least a nominal bridge officer status).
Data had been a bridge officer since before the series began. Presumably, whatever is holding him back isn't that specific test, but some other qualificaton. Possibly a quota of some sort, since the starship can only have so many Commanders (in line officer duty - Crusher and Troi are staff officers and probably don't count).
It's likely that Riker is the only line officer permitted to hold the rank of Commander onboard, just like Picard is the only line officer permitted to hold the rank of Captain. Data accepting a promotion to Commander would have to be transferred into the XO position or onto another starship.
Data had been a bridge officer since before the series began. Presumably, whatever is holding him back isn't that specific test, but some other qualificaton. Possibly a quota of some sort, since the starship can only have so many Commanders (in line officer duty - Crusher and Troi are staff officers and probably don't count).
It's likely that Riker is the only line officer permitted to hold the rank of Commander onboard, just like Picard is the only line officer permitted to hold the rank of Captain. Data accepting a promotion to Commander would have to be transferred into the XO position or onto another starship.
Didn't Kirk and Spock both hold the rank of captain in TUC? Kirk was the CO and Spock the XO. Position trumped rank. There should be no reason for Data to hold the rank of commander and still be the 2nd Officer. Riker would retain the the position of XO and be above Data in the command structure. Riker could be a captain by rank and still be XO while Picard retained the position of CO.
Both Pulaski and McCoy were full Commanders but vehemently denied any sort of bridge officer competence or status (despite spending a lot of time on the bridge pestering their respective COs).
I doubt the Test is a requirement for any particular rank. It just
a) allows you to stand bridge watches (typically a menial task for junior officers)
b) gives you brownie points that get you closer to your next promotion or, depending on points already accumulated, up one rung on the promotion ladder
and in Troi's case, the points got her from LtCmdr to Cmdr, while for example Dr. Bashir might have advanced from Ensign to Lt(j.g.) thanks to taking the same test.
Timo Saloniemi
I suspect that the promotion is supplementary, or in her specific case, a qualifier. Pulaski & McCoy are both chief medical officers, the commander rank likely denotes that level of command. The same with Crusher. Troi holds no such post, so apart from that, the bridge officers exam may have been the only other avenue to achieve that rank. It's possible that if she'd taken it as a Lt. there'd have been no promotion, or only a supplemental one to LT. CDR. Until she achieved whatever other qualifications necessary to rise up to CDR. It just so happens that she reached LT. CDR. already, & the exam was a path to promotion
Data's rank seems to support that. He apparently took the exam while holding a lower rank. His qualifications might be more generalized, being he holds ops postings & command ones as well. He might not have been specialized enough to yet warrant the CDR. rank, despite being in place as the ship's 2nd officer
Data's rank seems to support that. He apparently took the exam while holding a lower rank. His qualifications might be more generalized, being he holds ops postings & command ones as well. He might not have been specialized enough to yet warrant the CDR. rank, despite being in place as the ship's 2nd officer
Basically the only case where a specific job is associated with a specific rank is when Captains and Captains only command starships. Oh, there are all sorts of temporary commands, and Kirk's braid in the second pilot can be interpreted in many ways, but the correlation is still very, very strong.
We now have a competing datapoint for Chief Counselor, from Lieutenant (j.g.) Ezri Dax. The discrepancy with LtCmdr/Cmdr Troi is no greater than between the two CMOs Lt(j.g.) Bashir and Cmdr Crusher... The most we can argue is that the higher your rank, the meatier assignments you get, there being the same positions available in humble and prestigious Starfleet working environments alike. So Bashir gets DS9 but Crusher gets E-D. (And Liz Lense gets a position on the equally big Lexington but not the CMO one.)
There must be literally thousands of slightly different ways to climb the rank ladder - taking all sorts of combinations of exams, performing heroics, being opportunistic about available jobs, knowing the right people, growing old, etc. Even two people graduating the same day on the same courses and vying for the same assignment/rank combination may get there by different means: the two Commander-ranking CMOs of the E-D had rather different skill sets and career histories (and ages, but we don't know when Pulaski graduated).
The very fact that Troi only now considered taking the BOE and Crusher took it on a whim suggests that the role of the BOE in rank progression is minuscule and obscure; the fact that Troi knew little about the test requirements and the methods for passing even after trying a couple of times further suggests she didn't have too many people around her who would already have taken this exam and could give tips. For all we know, Riker never took an exam like that, either.
Timo Saloniemi
We now have a competing datapoint for Chief Counselor, from Lieutenant (j.g.) Ezri Dax. The discrepancy with LtCmdr/Cmdr Troi is no greater than between the two CMOs Lt(j.g.) Bashir and Cmdr Crusher... The most we can argue is that the higher your rank, the meatier assignments you get, there being the same positions available in humble and prestigious Starfleet working environments alike. So Bashir gets DS9 but Crusher gets E-D. (And Liz Lense gets a position on the equally big Lexington but not the CMO one.)
There must be literally thousands of slightly different ways to climb the rank ladder - taking all sorts of combinations of exams, performing heroics, being opportunistic about available jobs, knowing the right people, growing old, etc. Even two people graduating the same day on the same courses and vying for the same assignment/rank combination may get there by different means: the two Commander-ranking CMOs of the E-D had rather different skill sets and career histories (and ages, but we don't know when Pulaski graduated).
The very fact that Troi only now considered taking the BOE and Crusher took it on a whim suggests that the role of the BOE in rank progression is minuscule and obscure; the fact that Troi knew little about the test requirements and the methods for passing even after trying a couple of times further suggests she didn't have too many people around her who would already have taken this exam and could give tips. For all we know, Riker never took an exam like that, either.
Timo Saloniemi
Speaking broadly of the TNG era and of that show in particular, I'm good with that... I think that for the Golds and Reds, rank is commensurate with position. Loosely, on a big ol' flagship crewed by Starfleet's best and brightest, the Captain is the only one of that rank, and basically all the major department heads are Lieutenant Commander even if in general that position ought to be held by a Lieutenant, tops. An XO will need quick authority over them, so he gets to be a full Commander.
Other starship XOs in the TNG era are typically a Lt. Cmdr.; I see this as being that in general, these are lesser ships or posts and whose underlings are correspondingly of lower rank (i.e. whose department heads are Lieutenants or lower). Unless your command posting is already filled with more senior department heads, FULL commanders end up in charge of installations (Quinteros, Sisko), and you could make an argument that you can get bumped up a grade if your job expands in its scope (Sisko).
Regarding the blue shirts, in the sciences you'd likely work your way up like everyone else, to a maximum department head rank of Lieutenant Commander (La Forge in Engineering, Darren in Stellar Cartography, etc.) or potentially commander if your expertise warrants having authority over your peers for that assignment. In Medical, you'd have a rank depending on the needed authority, which is why Bashir ended up a Lieutenant and in charge of a medical department, while Ogawa was an Ensign forever and eventually got promoted to a still-lesser position within a larger department. Crusher would already hold medical authority over everyone anyway, but in order to have command authority on the ENTERPRISE, she'd have to be above the typical blue Lieutenant Commander and as such would have been bumped to the full bird rank. Heck, perhaps she was at the lower rank prior to coming aboard, and only upon accepting the position did she realize that she'd get a promotion.
Which bring us to Troi, who'd be in the position of needing to be the head of the counseling department, which would be a Lieutenant Commander for a big important ship like the Enterprise; or in combination with her additional responsibilities on the bridge as exposition provider. Then similarly, in order to be a bridge officer on top of that, she'd need to have a promotion to reflect the needed authority for someone in her position. As Timo said, it could be a matter of points, in combination for a sideways-method for non-command or operations officers to have that needed command authority for their posting.
Mark
Other starship XOs in the TNG era are typically a Lt. Cmdr.; I see this as being that in general, these are lesser ships or posts and whose underlings are correspondingly of lower rank (i.e. whose department heads are Lieutenants or lower). Unless your command posting is already filled with more senior department heads, FULL commanders end up in charge of installations (Quinteros, Sisko), and you could make an argument that you can get bumped up a grade if your job expands in its scope (Sisko).
Regarding the blue shirts, in the sciences you'd likely work your way up like everyone else, to a maximum department head rank of Lieutenant Commander (La Forge in Engineering, Darren in Stellar Cartography, etc.) or potentially commander if your expertise warrants having authority over your peers for that assignment. In Medical, you'd have a rank depending on the needed authority, which is why Bashir ended up a Lieutenant and in charge of a medical department, while Ogawa was an Ensign forever and eventually got promoted to a still-lesser position within a larger department. Crusher would already hold medical authority over everyone anyway, but in order to have command authority on the ENTERPRISE, she'd have to be above the typical blue Lieutenant Commander and as such would have been bumped to the full bird rank. Heck, perhaps she was at the lower rank prior to coming aboard, and only upon accepting the position did she realize that she'd get a promotion.
Which bring us to Troi, who'd be in the position of needing to be the head of the counseling department, which would be a Lieutenant Commander for a big important ship like the Enterprise; or in combination with her additional responsibilities on the bridge as exposition provider. Then similarly, in order to be a bridge officer on top of that, she'd need to have a promotion to reflect the needed authority for someone in her position. As Timo said, it could be a matter of points, in combination for a sideways-method for non-command or operations officers to have that needed command authority for their posting.
Mark
One issue to be addressed here is the "right to stand bridge watches" in the general and Trek contexts. In the former, it's more an annoying duty, something to be burdened on Ensigns for all those uneventful hours (months!) of operations. As for the latter, we have seen people of very low rank in charge of the bridge in all incarnations of Trek, and especially TNG. And we have specifically seen LtCmdr Data do it, so the step up to full Cmdr should not be significant for Troi.
Troi would need rank for authority over her department, but we don't know whether she even has one. She might wear rank as an indicator of her experience in her own field of speciality, but we don't know if her rank at various timepoints really correlates that well with experience (in comparison with, say, our CMOs); then again, nothing stops us from arguing it's a good correlation. It could also be that high rank correlates with versatility, but most of the high-ranking CMOs have demonstrated skill in medicine only...
Timo Saloniemi
Troi would need rank for authority over her department, but we don't know whether she even has one. She might wear rank as an indicator of her experience in her own field of speciality, but we don't know if her rank at various timepoints really correlates that well with experience (in comparison with, say, our CMOs); then again, nothing stops us from arguing it's a good correlation. It could also be that high rank correlates with versatility, but most of the high-ranking CMOs have demonstrated skill in medicine only...
Timo Saloniemi
Well, going by Crusher alone, she certainly demonstrated the knowledge of making the Enterprise do stuff all on her lonesome in "Remember Me", and as part of the regular chain of command in "Descent", albeit as an odd choice when Picard was emptying the ship of people for the oh-so-skill-requiring task of LOOKING AROUND. My view is that Crusher and Troi got that extra rank to be a proper bridge officer as well as part of the chain of command for their post. Troi was regularly on the bridge anyway, and to be part of the chain of command it may have been necessary to promote her above Data as the next most senior officer on a regular basis.
Heck, Ezri may have done so (or gotten a field promotion), as she got a bump in rank just for signing on to DS9, however she certainly started to counsel people AND hold a post on the Defiant's bridge - she didn't seem to have any underlings, so if counseling were her only function she may have stuck to being an Ensign..?
Mark
Heck, Ezri may have done so (or gotten a field promotion), as she got a bump in rank just for signing on to DS9, however she certainly started to counsel people AND hold a post on the Defiant's bridge - she didn't seem to have any underlings, so if counseling were her only function she may have stuck to being an Ensign..?
Mark
It seems to be highly sought after in Starfleet - we've seen a few low ranked characters sound very excited about their first watch.
Yeah, that's how I tend to view it. They're both tests of character, but with different contexts. Saavik, like other command school cadets, was being tested to see how she'd deal with a situation where she couldn't theoretically win, while Troi was being tested to see if she'd protect the ship even if it required her to sacrifice one or more crewmates (Geordi in the simulation) to achieve that.
Scotty also held the rank of Captain in TSFS-
Not to mention Cmdr's Uhura, McCoy and Checkov.
But we've seen position trump rank in DSN for example where Chief O'Brien a NCO is Chief of Operations Starbase Deep Space Nine and Chief Engineer USS Defiant which seems to given him authority over commisioned officers at least oher those assigned to either of those postings
Well, Kirk was senior in that rank nevertheless. Although what a demotion would mean in that respect if it happened in a real navy, I have no idea.
Commander Riker would remain senior to Data if Data were promoted to full Commander at any timepoint after Riker's own promotion to that rank. Having the same pips on the collar would not be all that confusing, because both would be senior officers, a narrow elite on the ship, known by face, name, nickname and drinking habits to everybody in the crew.
Timo Saloniemi
You probably have to be recommended for promotion before you can take the test.
There are both ranks and positions. For example you can have a Lt Commander serving on a starship as the Captain (such as in Redemption Pt II). So you could have someone with the rank of Captain and the position of Captain, and then also someone with the rank of Captain and position of First Officer. The former would have superiority because of position.
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