Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

[Trekker4747]

Again, Harvey was the (a) DA. All criminals in the prison system are "his" and I doubt the joker is going to be one to parse his words when it comes to distinguishing between a murderer and a car thief.

I would assume he says "most wanted" for a reason.

Again, he's The Joker. It's doubtful the things he says has any reason. There may have been other lines in the movie suggesting that these were some of the criminals taken down in the big mob bust but, again, they could be anyone from the Bosses down to the soldiers meaning they range from the criminal overlords down to the un-made guy who gets stuck roughing up the local union rep for the protection money. In fact, it's heavily suggested in the movie that Harvey and the Mayor knew the bosses and upper-level guys would make bail and be back on the streets while all of the lower-level guys would be stuck serving their sentences/going to trial.

But it certainly seemed to be a bit of a mix of various criminals, I doubt the Ving Rhames criminal was meant to be anyone involved with the mob if from the "moral choice" he made alone.

 

[Set Harth]

Ving Rhames? You mean Tiny Lister?

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, him. I suspected Ving Rhames wasn't right but I gambled on it, not wanting to look it up.

 

[Set Harth]

Ving Rhames would have gotten medieval on that ass.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

But it certainly seemed to be a bit of a mix of various criminals, I doubt the Ving Rhames criminal was meant to be anyone involved with the mob if from the "moral choice" he made alone.

It was my impression that the 500 or so criminals on the ferry were the same 500 or so criminals which Dent had held as a criminal conspiracy under RICO, hence the necessity to get them out of Gotham before Joker or the mob could either find a way to free them amidst the chaos or find a way to kill them to prevent them from making deals with the DA.

So, yes, I think they were all directly connected with the mob.

 

[Guartho]

When I saw it the first time, I very much expected the civilians to blow themselves up in an attempt to blow the prison ferry.

 

[Broccoli]

But it certainly seemed to be a bit of a mix of various criminals, I doubt the Ving Rhames criminal was meant to be anyone involved with the mob if from the "moral choice" he made alone.

It was my impression that the 500 or so criminals on the ferry were the same 500 or so criminals which Dent had held as a criminal conspiracy under RICO, hence the necessity to get them out of Gotham before Joker or the mob could either find a way to free them amidst the chaos or find a way to kill them to prevent them from making deals with the DA.

So, yes, I think they were all directly connected with the mob.

And Scarecrow! Allegedly, he could be seen in the background in IMAX showings.

 

[Broccoli]

In hindsight, I've wondered if the story about Oldman, who as we know is back for TDKR, was planted by the movie-makers to fool people like me.

Oldman does have a history with the Batman franchise on make stuff up for reporters.

 

[Set Harth]

And Scarecrow! Allegedly, he could be seen in the background in IMAX showings.

That's not Scarecrow, just someone having a vague resemblance to Cillian Murphy. He can be seen in pretty much any version of the film, including non-IMAX showings and the DVD.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/faq#.2.1.123

 

[davejames]

Yeah, the scene was mostly about challenging your preconceptions by having the frightening criminal be the one who makes the clear moral choice, so in that sense I can see how people might find it a bit preachy and unrealistic, but I still liked it.

I think I would have bought that scene more if the reason behind the prisoners tossing the detonator was because enough of them spoke up with concerns that their innocent families and wives and children might be on the other boat.

That not only would have made more sense, but it would have shown JUST as powerfully that these guys still had a core sense of decency and humanity to them.

Instead of just doing it because they had a sudden change of heart or the big black guy guilted them into it.

 

[Trekker4747]

I think it was just a turn on expectations. Here we have this one particular big, strong, man coming up and saying "I'm going to do what you should have done 15 minutes ago," and then he makes the tough choice of just tossing the detonator out when you'd expect a criminal to be the first person to want to press the button. Meanwhile the good people and civilians were all for blowing up the cons (and innocent people on the boat.)

Hell, the people, overly ruled by society, even put it to a popular vote to see what they were to do and blowing the cons up won! Hell, you could say it has something to do with the way society dicks around with planning, voting and wasting time instead of just acting.

 

[Set Harth]

Meanwhile the good people and civilians were all for blowing up the cons (and innocent people on the boat.)

Not all of them! As you mentioned, the "don't blow 'em up" group simply lost the vote. But in a parallel to what happened on the other boat, the spokesman for the "blow 'em up" group relented when the moment of truth arrived.

 

[Trekker4747]

No, not all of then, but it obviously a majority of them were wanting to do it and the most vocal even willing to do it until he reconsidered. The prisoners actually were acting quite a bit more civil about the whole thing.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

1. How did the Joker get the explosives into MCU? There are explanations as to how he got the explosives in the other places if he spent a year planning his scheme. However, I would imagine that a police station would be difficult.

2. The bat-signal is meant to let people know he's out there, according to gGordon. so how does Batman know he is actually being called to the rooftop, to, say, meet with Gordon and Dent?

 

[Trekker4747]

1. The bomb that got into MCU was inside the phone implanted in a criminal.

2. Gordon still uses the signal to reach Batman, he just doesn't come every time it's used; so Gordon likes to at least use it to remind people Batman is out there. Maybe if Gordon really needs to reach Batman he points it to a specific point/direction in the sky.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Uh, u do know about the phone, sure, but there is no way a phone could blow up like that. It must be a detonator for rigged explosives.

How did he get those explosives in there

 

[Admiral_Young]

The Bat Signal can be seen as far away as Wayne Manor. "Batman Returns" attempted to explain how Bruce sees the signal.

 

[Guartho]

Uh, u do know about the phone, sure, but there is no way a phone could blow up like that. It must be a detonator for rigged explosives.

How did he get those explosives in there

I always thought there was more than just the phone in the guy and that the phone was indeed just the detonator.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's also possible, if it was a detonator, he got the explosive in MCU the same way he got all of the explosives in two ferries and in a hospital.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

It's also possible, if it was a detonator, he got the explosive in MCU the same way he got all of the explosives in two ferries and in a hospital.

which is... how, exactly?

The imdb FAQ page implies that he might have worked on these schemes for a year, and with an understanding of human behavior, he was sure that thing would play out exactly how he wanted them too. However, getting oil drums into a police facility would be impossible.
from imdb:

The Joker made his first appearance, off screen, at the end of Batman Begins when then-Lieutenant Gordon tells Batman about a robbery the Joker committed. The Dark Knight takes place six months (as confirmed by interviews) after Batman Begins. The Joker has committed several crimes during that time. He is known to the police, to Batman, and to the mob. None of them think he is anybody to be worried about or taken seriously.

Then he begins his reign of terror, and seems suddenly able to do some rather difficult things (break into places, set bombs, etc). The obvious answer is that he had been spending the last six months carefully planning out everything so that he would be ready. For example, the Joker blows up a hospital. Most likely, he had set the explosives in place long before. This is a trait very typical of the comic book Joker -- he's able to prepare a crime for a long time and yet carry it out before anyone realizes what he's up to. He then "predicts" a crime that has already been committed.

Another possibility, since Maroni's (and the mob's) goals mesh well with the Joker's social experiments, is that he gets a considerable amount of assistance from the mob after the Chechen puts out the word that he should be hired to get rid of Batman.