"Quasi-Cardassian totalitarian!!"

[Darth_Pazuzu]

I've got kind of a lame question: Do you think Cardassians are sometimes unfairly portrayed on Voyager? I mean, it's not enough that they made Seska a Cardassian spy, they had to make her a villainess as well! And it just so happens that Crell Moset, the Cardassian exobiologist whose knowledge and skills were so desperately needed, just so happened to be a cold-blooded Mengele-style butcher!

Although Cardassians started out on The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine as just another species antagonistic to the United Federation of Planets, their portrayal has evolved considerably over the course of DS9. I mean, I'm not saying that I'd wanna live on Cardassia Prime full time, you understand, I'm just saying that on DS9 they have evolved into something beyond simply being a one-note villain species. But I feel like Voyager somehow kept maintaining that bum rap against the Cardies! Does anybody else agree?

 

[LightningStorm]

Hadn't really noticed until now, but that's kinda interesting. I notice you didn't mention that your thread title is a quote by Braxton from Future's End. Adding to the Voyager Cardie-bashing.

 

[Kegek]

Aw, c'mon. It's a hilarious line, an obvious parody of 'quasi-fascist totalitarian.'

Now, VOY's two most serious looks at Cardassians were fairly nuanced and some of the show's better stuff, if not as good as DS9's.

Seska, while clearly a villain, also gives a damning critique of Janeway's command style. She's a bit neurotic, but occasionally sympathetic - be it in the chauvinistic bashing she gets from Maje Culluh and his patriarchal Kazon pals, or her warped affection for Chakotay.

And it was really DS9 that started the parallel of Cardassians to the Nazis - or rather, made it overt - in the wonderful "Duet." Despite this parallel the Cardassians remained fascinating and ambiguous...

...like Krell Moset of "Nothing Human." I mean, look at the guy: He's charming, erudite, professional, often witty. The perfect intellectual partner for the Doctor. He even expresses heartfelt regret for the Bajoran occupation. But behind his pleasant facade, as with Josef Mengeles himself, lurks a cold blooded killer who one day decided that curing a disease had to be done at any cost, including deliberately infecting a servile people - something ominously reminiscent of Tuskegee as well.

So no, I wouldn't say VOY simplified the Cardies. They acquitted themselves excellently on TNG, VOY, and DS9 most of all.

 

[exodus]

Most Cardies they showed worked for the Cardassians military, like Seska or Moset. So yes, they were evil and do little to prove otherwise. Damar & Garak only changed because they had too.

However, when other Trek show featured Cardie citizens. They were just regular people.

Just consider how long it's taken people not to see Germans as evil after WWII.

 

[LiChiu]

I was surprised when Capt. Braxton said that. I would have guessed by the 29th century the cardassians would be part of the federation.

 

[Darth_Pazuzu]

^^
Well, even if not part of the Federation, at least friendlier. But hey! Who knows? Sci-fi astropolitics could be just as mercurial and fluid as real-life Earth politics!

 

[nx1701g]

I tend to think that they were in the Federation after the episode Azati Prime. The Enterprise-J's internal layout had a Cardassian feel to it if you ask me.

 

[Darth_Pazuzu]

^^
Wow! I guess I'll have to check that one out again. My memory of most ENT episodes is admittedly a bit sketchy...

 

[LiChiu]

nx1701g said:
I tend to think that they were in the Federation after the episode Azati Prime. The Enterprise-J's internal layout had a Cardassian feel to it if you ask me.

I never thought about that but now that you said it, I think you are right.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That sounds like an excellent racket.

If every race who gets smacked down by some evil bugger suckles up to the federation to recover, then it might mean that there would be elements in the federation considering half destroying prospective members so that they wouldn't quibble over the more arduous points in joining up to make sure their boarders are guarded and their populations are fed.

Isn't that a highly cartoon explantion for some of what's happening in Dafour?

 

[nx1701g]

Azati Prime images of Enterprise-J Interior

 

[Kytee]

Great eye NX1701G! I've seen that ENT episode a few times and never made the connection but looking at the pics I think you're on to something.

Kytee

 

[DanTheGrey]

The computer displays definitely have a Cardassian look and feel to them based on those screenshots.

I would have assumed that by the 29th basically all of the near neighbour conflict races (Klingons/Cardassians/Romulans) would all be part of the Federation. Then again with racism/nationalist stereotypes it's not impossible for things to be kept alive for centuries, even in an 'enlightened' Federation culture, hence the comment.

 

[nx1701g]

To be honest this made me make the connection:

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=122&pos=188

- The window is oval shaped
- The wall pattern looks Cardassian
- The label next to the window looks like a Cardassian one

 

[WeAreTheBorg]

Voyager simplified alot of things relating to the AQ - the one exception being the Romulan in Eye of the Needle

 

[DanCPA]

Cardassians are by their own admission strong on authoritarian values... A stark contrast to the Federation policies.

 

[exodus]

LiChiu said:
I was surprised when Capt. Braxton said that. I would have guessed by the 29th century the cardassians would be part of the federation.

No way, Cardies are xenophobic. They hate all other beings but their own. They never would intergrate into a Federation way of living.

 

[LiChiu]

exodus said:

LiChiu said:
I was surprised when Capt. Braxton said that. I would have guessed by the 29th century the cardassians would be part of the federation.

No way, Cardies are xenophobic. They hate all other beings but their own. They never would intergrate into a Federation way of living.

But a lot can change after an apocalypse and 500 years. I mean look how fast earth changed from the 20th century to the 22nd century.

 

[exodus]

LiChiu said:

exodus said:

LiChiu said:
I was surprised when Capt. Braxton said that. I would have guessed by the 29th century the cardassians would be part of the federation.

No way, Cardies are xenophobic. They hate all other beings but their own. They never would intergrate into a Federation way of living.

But a lot can change after an apocalypse and 500 years. I mean look how fast earth changed from the 20th century to the 22nd century.

But there was still racism as evidence by Starfleet officers hating Klingons for just being Klingons. Kirk did very little to save any race or being that wasn't human. Even in the 24th century, O'Brian hates all Cardassians regardless of their content of character. Sisko wouldn't enter Vic's due to his prejudice relating to that time period. Everyone still has hate for Changlings because they still fear them.

Even though Starfleet officers & Federation citizens try to be better enlightened people, we still are victims to our own prejudice.

 

[LiChiu]

exodus said:

LiChiu said:

exodus said:

LiChiu said:
I was surprised when Capt. Braxton said that. I would have guessed by the 29th century the cardassians would be part of the federation.

No way, Cardies are xenophobic. They hate all other beings but their own. They never would intergrate into a Federation way of living.

But a lot can change after an apocalypse and 500 years. I mean look how fast earth changed from the 20th century to the 22nd century.

But there was still racism as evidence by Starfleet officers hating Klingons for just being Klingons. Kirk did very little to save any race or being that wasn't human. Even in the 24th century, O'Brian hates all Cardassians regardless of their content of character. Sisko wouldn't enter Vic's due to his prejudice relating to that time period. Everyone still has hate for Changlings because they still fear them.

Even though Starfleet officers & Federation citizens try to be better enlightened people, we still are victims to our own prejudice.

Yes but by the 24th century you see a klingon, Worf, in starfleet which is less than 100 years after kirk's time. As for O'Bian not liking cardassians, the first war was still fresh on his mind.
I am talking 29th century which is 500 years later. Anything and everything can change in 500 years. For all we know by the 29th century a ferengi can be president of the federation or romulans could have finally reunited with the vulcans.
If in star trek they can show the earth which has since the beginning of recorded history been warlike, prejudiced, greedy and violent turn into a peacful unified world in less than 200 years then why would it be beyond the realm of belief that the cardassians be federation members 500 years later?