Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

[CaptJimboJones]

Sadly, the Bond people have owned all the SPECTRE rights since the last nefarious bit of legal chicanery they employed with McClory several years back. They could use them anytime now, it isn't like the Moore era where they had to change the scripts to omit SPECTRE references, they're choosing not to use them.

Actually, I'm not entirely sure of that. I think McClory's estate is still making some claim to the Thunderball elements, enough so that MGM is being very cautious about using SPECTRE. Just a couple of years ago, they put out a video game version of From Russia With Love, and changed every SPECTRE reference to to "The Octopus," a move that was clearly done for legal reasons.

I could be wrong, of course, but I also recall reading that the QoS screenwriters wanted to feature SPECTRE but were nixed for legal reasons.

 

[Good Will Riker]

^^^

Not me. Quantum of Solace belongs with the other sophomore EON James Bond productions that have gone wrong such as The Man with the Golden Gun and Tomorrow Never Dies.

I own all of the previous 007 films (Including Never Say Never Again) on DVD, but I plan on skipping purchasing Quantum of Solace on Blu-ray and go straight to purchasing the 3rd Daniel Craig 007 film on Blu-ray in 2011.

Nowadays, box-office is only half of the tell-tale sign with the other being DVD/Blu-ray sales to see if a film still has "legs" after its initial theatrical release.

Compare the DVD and Blu-ray sales of Iron Man flying off of the store shelves while you still see crates full of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystall DVDs and Blu-rays still remaining on the store shelves.

Like Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Quantum of Solace will cater more to completists than casual moviegoers who saw the film in theatres. And, in all honesty, had Quantum of Solace not been an official EON canon James Bond film, this film would be forgotten in 5 years.

What a mediocre action film! I actually rank Speed 2: Cruise Control, The Fast and the Furious, 2 Fast 2 Furious, The Matrix Reloaded, and The Matrix Revolutions above this film, and I thought those films were terrible!

As bad as Die Another Day and Moonraker were, at least they were fun to watch. This wasn't.

To think while thousands of quality films will be long forgotten throughout our lifetime, if we live to the age of 90 this poor action film will still be on the store shelves repackaged as part of the James Bond 007 collection for new audiences for decades to come.

You are entitled to your opinion, however melodramatic you choose to make it.

However, having seen the film this evening, I can say with full confidence that while you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that, I also heartily disagree, from the perspective of a viewer, fan, writer, artist and critic. Wholly, qualitatively, and sincerely, I disagree with you.

Coming from my mouth, you wouldn't agree with me even if I told you that the Earth is round.

I think they friggin' ruined Bond with CASINO ROYALE (though QOS is so good it ALMOST makes me forgive them for casting Jack Palance II as ImpostorBond), but I love BATMAN BEGINS. I agree with a lot of your points (esp about TFF), and don't see anything about the trailer (which I caught today) that said STAR TREK to me ... it was just too generic and, to be honest, mindless.

I am of the opposite mind who believes that the richly-layered Casino Royale is one of the more superior James Bond outings while the plot-thin Quantum of Solace belongs in the bottom of the barrel.

By way of comparison, I though the Craig casting in CR and writing Bond as a reckless overaged adolescent

It worked for Daniel Craig's "new 00-agent" in Casino Royale, but backfired on him in Quantum of Solace, because it is unbelievable that this agent will not be severely reprimanded or have his license revoked for disobeying orders so recklessly.

At least Dalton's Bond in Licence to Kill and Brosnan's Bond in Die Another Day had good reasons for doing that. Plus those Bonds were already established, and have proven countless times that they could get the job done in saving the world, so they already have some brownie points in getting some leeway in going rogue like that. Craig's "green" Bond didn't have much of an excuse for doing that because Vesper is the one who killed herself in CR, and going after Quantum for her death -- a girl who did not even love him but only used him in the first place -- isn't much grounds for M to give him leeway in going rogue like that for an agent who hasn't proven his worth yet to MI6 beyond the fact that he is a superb card player.

The whole plot falls apart under close scrutiny. And, I am not saying that about Bond films in general, but that Quantum of Solace truly sucked just as bad as 2 Fast 2 Furious and Speed 2: Cruise Control.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Polarizing movie, innit?

I didn't get a Trek trailer, Instead I got Clive "NOT BOND" Owen in The International (not to be confused with Christopher Walken's The Continental), some Adam Sandler shit, some Jim Carrey shit and some Will Smith shit.

Personally, I'd pay to see Daniel Craig kick them all in the face.

 

[Silversmok3]

I thought it was a good flick.

Casino Royale's job was to bring James Bond back to earth. No more space rays and cloaked cars, just Bond and the job.

Quantum of Solace really exists to develop Bond into the 'cold-hearted' bastard he needs to be to do his job.

Its not so much made to showcase shootouts or car chases( though the opening scene was niiice) but to illustrate Bond's transformation.And for that reason its got more depth than the later editions of the previous, tea-and-Q editions of Bond.

I liked it because it , like Casino Royale, makes it clear that Bond's choices make for grave consequences.

Whereas before Sean Connery/Timothy Dalton/Pierce Brosnan could sleep around, lie, get locked up, blow their covers and the day is still saved.The word consequence just didn't exist.

 

[Good Will Riker]

DVD wishlist for this future Blu-ray player adopter:

Be sure to add to personal collection -

- Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines DVD (for under $6.00 including sales tax) with the purchase of Terminator Salvation on Blu-ray.
- Spider-Man 3 DVD (for under $10.00 including sales tax) with the purchase of Spider-Man 4 on Blu-ray.
- Quantum of Solace DVD (I wouldn't pay more than 2 gallons worth of gas for this title) with the purchase of Daniel Craig EON-James Bond #3 on Blu-ray.

No amount of "Blu-ray experience" can save those above titles for me.

 

[TGTheodore]

The word consequence just didn't exist.

I think Tracy Bond getting shot to death on their honeymoon was a pretty big consequence.

--Ted

 

[TemporalFlux]

I was disappointed by Quantum; it just didn't have the heart that Casino Royale had. Quantum came across as a paint by numbers outing for Bond; there was nothing that really gave the film its own stand-out identity.

 

[Good Will Riker]

The word consequence just didn't exist.

I think Tracy Bond getting shot to death on their honeymoon was a pretty big consequence.

--Ted

Technically, that was George Lazenby's Bond.

The above poster was referring to Connery/Dalton/Brosnan.

 

[TGTheodore]

The word consequence just didn't exist.

I think Tracy Bond getting shot to death on their honeymoon was a pretty big consequence.

--Ted

Technically, that was George Lazenby's Bond.

The above poster was referring to Connery/Dalton/Brosnan.

Yes, I know, but he essentially was talking about pre-Craig lack of consequences for Bond.

--Ted

 

[Barbados Slim]

Plus we have to remember this Bond is still green. The movie opens minutes after Casino Royale ended. He's still basically on the same, first mission. The end was very fitting:

M: I need you back, Bond.
B: I never left.

It made me feel that Bond 23 he's ready to get down to business, but what happened on this first mission will resonate.

The small moments are what I'm taking away from the film. Bond getting drunk on the plane. The moment when Bond asks Mathis his real name. The moment where Camille is wanting Bond to shoot her rather than die in the fire. That final scene with the Algerian boyfriend. Dropping the love knot in the snow. The action was fantastic, but I don't get why people think this movie didn't have heart and didn't emotionally connect because a) it did and b) we've never asked that of a Bond movie.

 

[Good Will Riker]

I think Tracy Bond getting shot to death on their honeymoon was a pretty big consequence.

--Ted

Technically, that was George Lazenby's Bond.

The above poster was referring to Connery/Dalton/Brosnan.

Yes, I know, but he essentially was talking about pre-Craig lack of consequences for Bond.

--Ted

Quite true.

I feel the sameway everytime the mass media reports on a "New type of Bond girl who can shoot guns and kick ass along with the guys than the damsels in distress of past Bond girls" when in the 1960's that concept was already revolutionized by Honor Blackman, Lucianna Paluzzi, and Diana Rigg.

 

[Broccoli]

Lots of stuff has been said, but in short, I graded it Average (although, I would place it between Above Average and Average).

The biggest weakness was that they had a very weak villain where his scheme is not fully explained, particularly why they want to screw Bolivia out of water. I get the implication, but a Bond movie should be where you have to sit there and think what the villain was up to after the movie. Stuff like that can be good in other movies, but not a Bond flick, imo.

The action scenes were terribly edited, particularly towards the beginning. The Pre-Titles sequence was lousy and very sub-par for a Bond movie. I was expecting some kind of quip or smart ass comment from Bond when he opened the trunk (like "How was your ride?" or some other jerk comment). But, no. Just a "Get out of the trunk." Personally, I think the chase with the MI6 traitor would have been a stronger PTS.

So...who else knew that Mitchel was a baddie? With everyone warmly saying hi to a character by name that we have never seen before just seemed to mark him.

The Title sequence was interestingly retro. It had a 70s flair. I wonder if that was intentional as CR's titles had a 60's feel to it. The song seemed to work with it.

That said, there was a lot of good. I am happy they revealed Mathis to be a good guy after all. That was one of my irritations with CR that made Mathis into a villain, when in the novels he was one of Bond's closest allies. Although, he didn't bring anything to the story other than to die. Honestly, what did he do that Bond absolutely needed him for? The money to get to Bolivia or wherever? If Bond was resourceful enough to get to where Mathis was, he could get to wherever else he needed to go.

One last question: Why did everyone call "M" mom? I thought that was just a throwaway jab by Bond in the previous film. Is that wasn't M is now suppose to stand for?

Also...what happened to Villers? (Not that that's a big loss; just curious)

Barbara Broccoli says that Camille could come back.

When asked if new Bond girl Olga Kurylenko could return, Barbara confirmed there was a strong possibility.

She told Heart: “I think she’s a spectacular actress and she’s done an amazing job in this movie. She blew us away.”

“We would certainly love to have her back. If it’s not in the next movie, then certainly in the future.”

Source

They said the same about Michelle Yeoh from Tomorrow Never Dies (Olga Kurylenko's personal favorite Bond girl) , and look what happened.

The same was also said of Jinx. She was going to get a spin-off movie too. Remember how awesome that was? Oh, wait...

Casino Royale didn't open as well as Die Another Day because DAD isn't a good film and people really didn't respond to it.

But...CR had a better opening than DAD. It seems that, within "recent times", each Bond movie has trumped the previous one in terms of opening gross.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I just got back from seeing it. I think I'll give it Average. I wanted to give it above average, but the plot was just so thin.

I think it suffers from the same problem the first two Star Wars prequels had: that is, they focused so much on setting up the plot for the next one, that they forgot about the plot for this one. And then of course, they also spent half the time filling in the holes from the last film.

It's just not a movie that stands very well on its own, and that's not what a James Bond movie should be.

I'm sure after the next one comes out, we'll have a nice trilogy, or whatever. But, that's not really the MO of the franchise.

Just when I was beginning to convince myself the Chopping Broccolis were starting to get it, they proved once again they don't know what the fuck they're doing.

Well, at least YOU got the Star Trek trailer.. We seemed to get trailers to every movie BUT the new Star Trek... Grrrrr...

Same. Where did you go? I went to Century Rio 24. I counted 13 trailers, not one of them was Star Trek.

 

[Starkers]

One last question: Why did everyone call "M" mom?

I think you'll find they were calling her ma'am!

I guessed Mitchell from the trailer alone. Mr. White saying 'we have people everywhere' was just so obvious!

I would agree that Greene's plan perhaps wasn't explained well enough, but people need to realise that in a few decades water will be worth more than oil to an awful lot of people. My assumption was that Quantum were going to 'discover' a huge cache of water and sell it to the beleaguered Bolivians (or whoever). Personally I liked it, Green had a more traditional film baddie plan than, say, Le Chiffre.

I am slightly worried. It took me three viewings to really like Casino Royale, I wonder if by three viewings of QoS I'll hate it??

And why do people keep going on about a trilogy? For me CR and QOS bookend the story of Bond's birth (and the gun barrel at the end reiterates this)

I expect Bond 22 to be a stand alone story, it might feature Quantum, but it won't follow on directly.

 

[RoJoHen]

One last question: Why did everyone call "M" mom?

I think you'll find they were calling her ma'am!

Yeah. They're British. "Ma'am" sounds like "mum."

 

[Good Will Riker]

That said, there was a lot of good. I am happy they revealed Mathis to be a good guy after all. That was one of my irritations with CR that made Mathis into a villain, when in the novels he was one of Bond's closest allies.

Mathis was a turncoat villain in the film adaptation of Casino Royale, but the writers of Quantum of Solace ret-conned him back into a good guy to redeem him before his death.

You don't go from intentionally trying to cheat the British government out of $100 million+ to Le Chiffre and try to poison Bond and then turn around and become Bond's friend "just like that."

I don't buy it. That kind of sudden "change of heart" is more a product of lazy writing more than anything else.

Which is also the reason why the end of Casino Royale set up Mr. White as being linked to a bigger conspiracy, where Craig's Bond needed answers, made the audience believe that Mr. White was going to be a larger presence in the sequel. However, all we got in Quantum of Solace with the character of Mr. White was the writers using him as nothing more than a cipher to establish that he is one of thousands of faces among Quantum in the sequel than as an actual developed and fleshedout character. A product of lazy writing if I ever saw one.

Although, he didn't bring anything to the story other than to die. Honestly, what did he do that Bond absolutely needed him for? The money to get to Bolivia or wherever? If Bond was resourceful enough to get to where Mathis was, he could get to wherever else he needed to go.

This sounds more of a case of bringing back actor Giancarlo Giannini (Mathis) for the sequel due to contractual obligations more than anything else. The writers wanted to write a new story for the sequel, so they just offed Mathis so that his presence would not be a loose thread that needed to be tied up in further sequels down the road.

Mathis's story arc came to a logical conclusion in Casino Royale. He didn't need to be brought back for Quantum of Solace.

I would agree that Greene's plan perhaps wasn't explained well enough, but people need to realise that in a few decades water will be worth more than oil to an awful lot of people. My assumption was that Quantum were going to 'discover' a huge cache of water and sell it to the beleaguered Bolivians (or whoever). Personally I liked it, Green had a more traditional film baddie plan than, say, Le Chiffre.

In my opinion, the only realistic Bond villain plots were from Licence to Kill (drugs), The World Is Not Enough (oil), and Casino Royale (money), where there was no elaborate lair or the villain's ultimate weapon in thwarting the western world. They were just greedy czars or tycoons that went straight after what they wanted without all of the fancy and contrived setups of most other "moustache twirling" Bond villains.

Greene's plan sounds contrived and leaving some audience members scratching their heads going "Huh? The villain set up all of this for that? ?" like Elliott Carver's ludicrous plan in "making tomorrow's news to make more money" in Tomorrow Never Dies.

 

[CorporalClegg]

One thing I was wondering about the whole SPECTRE/QUANTUM thing is, what about Blofeld? He's a Flemming creation and has nothing to do with Mcclory.

Couldn't they just make him the head of this Quantum thing?

 

[Lonemagpie]

They said the same about Michelle Yeoh from Tomorrow Never Dies (Olga Kurylenko's personal favorite Bond girl) , and look what happened.

The same was also said of Jinx. She was going to get a spin-off movie too. Remember how awesome that was? Oh, wait...

Michelle Yeoh *was* asked back to play Wai Lin in Die Another Day (she would have combined the role Chang and the Chinese girl have in the hotel in Hong Kong) but wasn't available on the filming dates.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Mathis was a turncoat villain in the film adaptation of Casino Royale,

No, he wasn't...

Which is also the reason why the end of Casino Royale set up Mr. White as being linked to a bigger conspiracy, where Craig's Bond needed answers, made the audience believe that Mr. White was going to be a larger presence in the sequel. However, all we got in Quantum of Solace with the character of Mr. White was the writers using him as nothing more than a cipher to establish that he is one of thousands of faces among Quantum

I dunno about that - I suspect he's our new Blofeld. Remember he was the only one smart enough not to give himself away in the opera house...

 

[Indysolo]

Mathis was a turncoat villain in the film adaptation of Casino Royale, but the writers of Quantum of Solace ret-conned him back into a good guy to redeem him before his death.

You don't go from intentionally trying to cheat the British government out of $100 million+ to Le Chiffre and try to poison Bond and then turn around and become Bond's friend "just like that."

I don't buy it. That kind of sudden "change of heart" is more a product of lazy writing more than anything else.

Mathis was never bad in CR. It was Vesper all along.

Neil