Q and the Gray

[JB2005]

I'm now imagining A. Square piloting an F-15 with a triangle, well done!

 

[exodus]

That's not the plot hole. The plot hole is that this whole episode hinges on the Q having never reproduced before, when the whole plot of TNG's "True Q" is that Amanda Rodgers' parents were both Q!

"True Q" also stated that Amanda's parents had chosen to be essentially human and had stopped using their powers, and Q's mission was to determine whether she was a legitimate Q with inherited abilities or a hybrid with only some of them. So one could argue that her parents conceived her in a normal human fashion, and that her latent powers were an unforeseen development.

Exactly.
This is also why they could be killed.
If they had remained Q, they couldn't have died.
It's why Quinn in "Deathwish" had to be turned human before he could commit suicide.

 

[exodus]

Your response is basically saying "Oh its just Star Trek, nothing can be taken seriously, its silly sci-fi" which I find to be absurd....AND somewhat offensive.

When "Trouble with Tribbles" gets continuously voted at the #1 fan favorite Trek episode of all time, It would lead me to believe a great majority of folks feel that way about it.

 

[The Dominion]

Your response is basically saying "Oh its just Star Trek, nothing can be taken seriously, its silly sci-fi" which I find to be absurd....AND somewhat offensive.

When "Trouble with Tribbles" gets continuously voted at the #1 fan favorite Trek episode of all time, It would lead me to believe a great majority of folks feel that way about it.

By what "fan" basis? It could just as well be that people who claim to be "fans" (broad definition depending on who you ask) vote for "Tribbles" because "Tribbles" are iconic, and the episode got a big fan boost with DS9's homage. And what poll is this? I've seen Balance of Terror and City on the Edge of Forever thrown around as "Fan Favorite" just as much.

 

[exodus]

Your response is basically saying "Oh its just Star Trek, nothing can be taken seriously, its silly sci-fi" which I find to be absurd....AND somewhat offensive.

When "Trouble with Tribbles" gets continuously voted at the #1 fan favorite Trek episode of all time, It would lead me to believe a great majority of folks feel that way about it.

By what "fan" basis? It could just as well be that people who claim to be "fans" (broad definition depending on who you ask) vote for "Tribbles" because "Tribbles" are iconic, and the episode got a big fan boost with DS9's homage. And what poll is this? I've seen Balance of Terror and City on the Edge of Forever thrown around as "Fan Favorite" just as much.

Entertainment Weekly.(I believe TV Guide did a similar poll as well)


There's a big difference in being called a "fan favorite" and winning in a poll to rank as the #1 most voted on episode.

Seriously, have we gotten to the point were we question how much of a "fan" people are or have to be now just because we don't personally agree with a polls results?

 

[The Dominion]

When "Trouble with Tribbles" gets continuously voted at the #1 fan favorite Trek episode of all time, It would lead me to believe a great majority of folks feel that way about it.

By what "fan" basis? It could just as well be that people who claim to be "fans" (broad definition depending on who you ask) vote for "Tribbles" because "Tribbles" are iconic, and the episode got a big fan boost with DS9's homage. And what poll is this? I've seen Balance of Terror and City on the Edge of Forever thrown around as "Fan Favorite" just as much.

Entertainment Weekly.(I believe TV Guide did a similar poll as well)


There's a big difference in being called a "fan favorite" and winning in a poll to rank as the #1 most voted on episode.

Seriously, have we gotten to the point were we question how much of a "fan" people are or have to be now just because we don't personally agree with a polls results?

Well, there you have it. It was TV Guide, therefore it's based on very casual fans. And I'm not saying that they're any less fans than anyone else, but that totally eschews the results. The people who probably voted in the poll probably had on average a very cursory knowledge of the series in general, further limited to having seen a total average of maybe a handful of episodes at best, possibly recalled from general memory.

Not necessarily representative of even a general Trek viewing demographic, and certainly not representative of a "fan favorite" naming.

I mean, you have to take into an account how many people were probably there for a different reason, saw the poll, and thought "Well I can only remember that episode with those fuzzy things in them, so I'll vote for that one."

 

[exodus]

By what "fan" basis? It could just as well be that people who claim to be "fans" (broad definition depending on who you ask) vote for "Tribbles" because "Tribbles" are iconic, and the episode got a big fan boost with DS9's homage. And what poll is this? I've seen Balance of Terror and City on the Edge of Forever thrown around as "Fan Favorite" just as much.

Entertainment Weekly.(I believe TV Guide did a similar poll as well)


There's a big difference in being called a "fan favorite" and winning in a poll to rank as the #1 most voted on episode.

Seriously, have we gotten to the point were we question how much of a "fan" people are or have to be now just because we don't personally agree with a polls results?

Well, there you have it. It was TV Guide, therefore it's based on very casual fans. And I'm not saying that they're any less fans than anyone else, but that totally eschews the results. The people who probably voted in the poll probably had on average a very cursory knowledge of the series in general, further limited to having seen a total average of maybe a handful of episodes at best, possibly recalled from general memory.

Not very representative of even a general Trek viewing demographic, and certainly not representative of a "fan favorite" naming.

I mean, you have to take into an account how many people were probably there for a different reason, saw the poll, and thought "Well I can only remember that episode with those fuzzy things in them, so I'll vote for that one."

Honestly, you're not stating any facts either.
Probably and possibly are just opinion based on speculation, specially considering we have no idea where the poll was posted. Is it not possible the poll was sponsored by TV Guide and posted on a sci-fi/Trek based site?
I also never said it was actually in TV Guide, I did say "I believe" TV Guide did a similar poll.

However, what does any of this have to do with how seriously or not many view Trek and sci-fi?

 

[The Dominion]

Entertainment Weekly.(I believe TV Guide did a similar poll as well)


There's a big difference in being called a "fan favorite" and winning in a poll to rank as the #1 most voted on episode.

Seriously, have we gotten to the point were we question how much of a "fan" people are or have to be now just because we don't personally agree with a polls results?

Well, there you have it. It was TV Guide, therefore it's based on very casual fans. And I'm not saying that they're any less fans than anyone else, but that totally eschews the results. The people who probably voted in the poll probably had on average a very cursory knowledge of the series in general, further limited to having seen a total average of maybe a handful of episodes at best, possibly recalled from general memory.

Not very representative of even a general Trek viewing demographic, and certainly not representative of a "fan favorite" naming.

I mean, you have to take into an account how many people were probably there for a different reason, saw the poll, and thought "Well I can only remember that episode with those fuzzy things in them, so I'll vote for that one."

Honestly, you're not stating any facts either.
Probably and possibly are just opinion based on speculation, specially considering we have no idea where the poll was posted. Is it not possible the poll was sponsored by TV Guide and posted on a sci-fi/Trek based site?

Well, was it or wasn't it? You brought it up, therefore it's your responsibility to provide a source. There are hundreds of such polls on any similar site with different results. I could just as easily say "I saw Arena voted Most Iconic Trek Episode Ever in a poll, therefore it must be." But what's to say that even happened or not? After all, it probably did...somewhere.

 

[exodus]

Well, there you have it. It was TV Guide, therefore it's based on very casual fans. And I'm not saying that they're any less fans than anyone else, but that totally eschews the results. The people who probably voted in the poll probably had on average a very cursory knowledge of the series in general, further limited to having seen a total average of maybe a handful of episodes at best, possibly recalled from general memory.

Not very representative of even a general Trek viewing demographic, and certainly not representative of a "fan favorite" naming.

I mean, you have to take into an account how many people were probably there for a different reason, saw the poll, and thought "Well I can only remember that episode with those fuzzy things in them, so I'll vote for that one."

Honestly, you're not stating any facts either.
Probably and possibly are just opinion based on speculation, specially considering we have no idea where the poll was posted. Is it not possible the poll was sponsored by TV Guide and posted on a sci-fi/Trek based site?

Well, was it or wasn't it? You brought it up, therefore it's your responsibility to provide a source. There are hundreds of such polls on any similar site with different results. I could just as easily say "I saw Arena voted Most Iconic Trek Episode Ever in a poll, therefore it must be." But what's to say that even happened or not? After all, it probably did...somewhere.

I provided a source.

Again, what does this have to do with if people take Trek seriously or not?
.

 

[The Dominion]

But I couldn't find the poll, so as far as I now know, it never existed.

Besides, everyone knows polls are bollocks anyway, especially internet ones.

 

[The Dominion]

Honestly, you're not stating any facts either.
Probably and possibly are just opinion based on speculation, specially considering we have no idea where the poll was posted. Is it not possible the poll was sponsored by TV Guide and posted on a sci-fi/Trek based site?

Well, was it or wasn't it? You brought it up, therefore it's your responsibility to provide a source. There are hundreds of such polls on any similar site with different results. I could just as easily say "I saw Arena voted Most Iconic Trek Episode Ever in a poll, therefore it must be." But what's to say that even happened or not? After all, it probably did...somewhere.

I provided a source.

Again, what does this have to do with if people take Trek seriously or not?
.

I don't know. Maybe if the poll was on that subject instead of "Favorite Episode" we'd know.

 

[exodus]

But I couldn't find the poll, so as far as I now know, it never existed.

Besides, everyone knows polls are bollocks anyway, especially internet ones.

Then I guess everyone with a subscription to EW and a copy of that particular issue must all be delusional.

Considering the poll wasn't the point of the subject anyway........

 

[The Dominion]

But I couldn't find the poll, so as far as I now know, it never existed.

Besides, everyone knows polls are bollocks anyway, especially internet ones.

Then I guess everyone with a subscription to EW and a copy of that particular issue must all be delusional.

Yep, they must be, because like someone called O'Brien once taught me: "History is controlled by the present."

 

[exodus]

But I couldn't find the poll, so as far as I now know, it never existed.

Besides, everyone knows polls are bollocks anyway, especially internet ones.

Then I guess everyone with a subscription to EW and a copy of that particular issue must all be delusional.

Yep, they must be, because like someone called O'Brien once taught me: "History is controlled by the present."

Which means nothing considering you're still debating an issue unrelated to the original point, too which you've already said you didn't have answer for.

 

[F. King Daniel]

"The 37s" was terrible, and the sheer stupidity of the plot was a big part of that, so hardly the best defense.

You didn't like it, but it fits with examples I cited just fine.

The Q and the Grey had Tom Paris sneaking up on a Q and holding a gun to his head. The whole civil war setup was simply meant to represent what the Q was going through in a way humans could understand, but at the end we have an omnipotent Q being defeated by a human sneaking up behind him with a musket.

Muskets representing Q weapons, which IRL were setting off supernovas.

So, YES, that did contradict the internal logic when it came to the Q. And YES, Star Trek does have basic internal logic.

Your response is basically saying "Oh its just Star Trek, nothing can be taken seriously, its silly sci-fi" which I find to be absurd....AND somewhat offensive.

No, I'm judging Trek as a whole, not some fannish, censored, idealized version where the "bad" episodes don't count.

 

[Gov Kodos]

One like 'Spock's Brain' great for a laugh, Q as a Union officer, Janeway as some Southern Belle, other Q as the CSA, what's not to love here. And Mrs Q is a hoot and then some.

 

[Sandoval]

I don't see why everyone is banging on about this like it's something new, superaliens in Star Trek have always appeared to humans on a level they can understand. Why does Q look human? Why do the Prophets appear as people from your past? The list goes on.

It's hardly unprecedented.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think it's cute that even as Q was dying in her arms, even as the rest were trying to kill her, and she was firing back with her supernova blaster pistol, that the Q were persisting in maintaining the illusion that allowed her mind not to go mad and explode.

 

[The Dominion]

I don't see why everyone is banging on about this like it's something new, superaliens in Star Trek have always appeared to humans on a level they can understand. Why does Q look human? Why do the Prophets appear as people from your past? The list goes on.

It's hardly unprecedented.

The problem is that the weapons they were using didn't make sense. So Q made a comprehensible illusion, but why would they make their weapons so easy to use a caveman could do it? And for that matter, why are the Q even using weapons? Surely it would be more efficient, and Q, to just be shooting power out their fingers. No need for a primitive boomstick tool, just point, or even think.

 

[F. King Daniel]

What were were seeing in "The Q and the Grey" was an interface. When you use your computer, you're not really clicking icons, you're affecting currents and circuits and microchips which you (well, most people) have no comprehension of and could never manipulate without the software to do it. It's the same in the Q Continuum here. Whether you see a gun or finger lighting is irrelevant. The Voyager crew were given the ability to operate on the Q's level with an interface which percieved the Q's supernova-causing superweapons as muskets.