Q and Guinan

[MagGu]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I did a search and didn't find it.......

I just watched the episode "Q Who" and I'm suddenly curious about the interaction between Q and Guinan. Why does he tell Picard not to trust her and she's not what she appears to be?

Do we find out why Q hates Guinan and vice-versa? In a book maybe?

This has really piqued my curiosity!

 

[DonIago]

I don't know whether it gets expanded on in the books, but sadly there's no more info provided in the series itself.

 

[Cakemixo]

Other than prior dealings between the two, nothing else was said on the show.

 

[Finn]

Other than prior dealings between the two, nothing else was said on the show.

Yeah. It's better this way. Explaining every little detail can make things less interesting and/or enjoyable.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

At a convention a few years back I asked John DeLancie if there was any backstory the writers had given him or anything to expand on that.

He said nope, we basically knew as much as he did about their history.

 

[Ultramann]

So I guess we should stick a fork in this discussion. Its done.

 

[CoveTom]

^ It's done from the perspective of what we have been told by the show itself. But I think it's interesting to speculate. And TrekBBS members are nothing if not good speculators.

So what do folks think? We know Guinan is long-lived. We really don't know how long, I don't think, except that we know she was around in the time of Mark Twain and she said, somewhat humorously, that her father was 700 years old. We also know that she's been a space traveler for at least quite a few hundred years by the time we see her in TNG. So it's certainly plausible that she's crossed paths with Q at some point.

However, the fact that she holds up her hands in response to Q seems to suggest that she doesn't just know him, but also has some sort of power she could use to combat him. But we don't have any real indication of what that power might be.

Thoughts?

 

[sonak]

this was just a dropped idea that had a lot of potential.

I especially liked the way she gestures at him and stands her ground, almost like she was on equal footing with him. This was a second season episode, so they probably didn't have the character of Guinan fully fleshed out, and might have been toying with the idea of her having magical powers or something.(beyond just her hyper-awareness of time and stuff)

sadly, there was just one more interaction between Q and Guinan in "Deja Q," and then that's it. Wasted possibilities.

 

[sevenstars]

I always figured maybe Guinan had some multi-dimensional qualities, so that what we saw (Whoopi Goldberg) was not all there was to her. Which was why she knew a lot about Q, and also about alternate timelines.

 

[Cakemixo]

However, the fact that she holds up her hands in response to Q seems to suggest that she doesn't just know him, but also has some sort of power she could use to combat him. But we don't have any real indication of what that power might be.

Thoughts?

Don't know. But if Guinan really did have something up her sleeve to put her on equal grounds with Q, I'd pay to see the battle of Q and Guinan. Do not mess with that woman when there are forks around.

But if she does have powers, and is not an exceptional case for an El Aurian, why didn't the El Aurians defeat the borg when they were attacked? Why did simply a few escape?

I always figured maybe Guinan had some multi-dimensional qualities, so that what we saw (Whoopi Goldberg) was not all there was to her. Which was why she knew a lot about Q, and also about alternate timelines.

So maybe they all escaped and simply did not return to the form Guinan chose to be?

 

[Gary7]

Guinan not only had multi-dimensional qualities, but seemed to have an incredibly long lifespan. Picard first meets her by time traveling back to the 19th century! She doesn't look much younger than she appears in the 24th century. Also, she has a connection to the Nexus energy ribbon... which may provide some special properties. Clearly this is an advantage to Picard in several situations, like "Yesterday's Enterprise". Her influence helps him make the right decision.

Q called her an "imp", which means a small demon or a "mischievous child". I think perhaps the latter... I don't think she's immortal, but she may be capable of living for many hundreds of years, perhaps thousands. Hence, his inference to her being a "child".

What intrigues me more is the "special relationship" that exists between Picard and Guinan. That's another thing that was never really explored or explained. Also, we never know what happened to her after he finished his tour of being captain of the Enterprise.

 

[LaBarre]

^
Me too.


We have a number of tantalising glimpses into the dynamics of the Picard-Guinan relationship in “The Measure of a Man”,“Yesterday's Enterprise”, “Clues”, “Booby Trap”, “BOBW,” “Ensign Ro”, “I, Borg”, “Time's Arrow”, “Relics” and “ST: Generations”, but it's left to the books to fully explore the theme:


ST: Stargazer Oblivion by Michael Jan Friedman is the best example and it's a really good read too.


Guinan officiated at the marriage of Picard and Beverly in Christopher Bennett's Greater Than The Sum. From memory, I think she also makes an appearance in Bennett's The Buried Age.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I think it would have been cool if Q had turned out to be that one child of Guinan's who never listened. Unlikely? Sure. But the idea tickles me.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think it would have been cool if Q had turned out to be that one child of Guinan's who never listened. Unlikely? Sure. But the idea tickles me.

When DS9 was being formulated, the thought was that one of Guinan's disgraced children would be in a prison located on DS9, a useful recurring character. The idea ended up growing into the episode with Martus Mazar, "Rivals", but any connection to being Guinan's son disappeared when it was discovered that Whoopi would be unavailable for the episode. Had "Rivals" been a popular episode, Martus would have become a recurring role, another foil for Quark.

Whoopi herself liked to tease about her character's original meetings with both Picard and Q. She developed her own backstories for both, but refuses to divulge her ideas.

"Starlog" once ran a one-panel cartoon with Q reacting to the Guinan-and-fork episode. He exclaims that she "wasn't a Q, she is an X."

 

[Python Trek]

I always figured maybe Guinan had some multi-dimensional qualities, so that what we saw (Whoopi Goldberg) was not all there was to her. Which was why she knew a lot about Q, and also about alternate timelines.

I thought so too, at the time that ep. first aired. But "Generations" kinda killed that idea for me. El Aurians seem to just be long-lived humanoids, and a few of them, like Guinan, have special trans-temporal senses (see "Yesterday's Enterprise"), but the idea that she could have actually engaged Q in combat with that "Dr. Strange gesture" she did is nutty, IMHO.

 

[Terra Pryme]

I actually did post a topic similar to this a couple of years ago. It had the same title, too. The way she had her arms raised toward Q in that scene as well as her ability to distinguish problems in the timeline in "Yesterday's Enterprise" seems to indicate she had some sort of magic abilities of her own. Certainly not to the omnipotence level like Q, but in some aspects, supernatural. It would have been nice to see what Guinan could really do. Maybe could have done some major mojo on Q after he lost his abilities. But even I had powers of my own, I admit it would have been fun to subject Q to some physical torture. And I would have done more than just stab him in the hand with a fork!

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

My own personal pet theory is that she was given the power of the Q at some point. Dialog indicates that she is acquainted with at least a few members of the Continuum.

 

[Kelthaz]

Q just doesn't like black people. I know, you'd think the Q Continuum would be beyond racism, but even they aren't perfect. Want proof? Look at how Q treated Sisko compared to Janeway and Picard. Not to mention the way he dismissed Worf as a primitive savage ("eat any good books lately?"). And have you ever seen a black Q? They can take any shape and form they want, but they always go white. There's also that whole Civil War thing too.

 

[sonak]

Q just doesn't like black people. I know, you'd think the Q Continuum would be beyond racism, but even they aren't perfect. Want proof? Look at how Q treated Sisko compared to Janeway and Picard. Not to mention the way he dismissed Worf as a primitive savage ("eat any good books lately?"). And have you ever seen a black Q? They can take any shape and form they want, but they always go white. There's also that whole Civil War thing too.

Worf's not Black, the actor playing him is.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Also, she has a connection to the Nexus energy ribbon... which may provide some special properties.

After Generations, I assumed that her hightened intuition came from the nexus. It explains her power as well as why other El-Aurians seem to lack it. And that would mean that Picard has it too. That would explain his awareness of the borg in First Contact. Or maybe he still has something of the borg in him.