Pulaski and an EMH

[sonak]

I don't get the Pulaski hate. We get a character modeled on Dr. McCoy almost exactly, and suddenly the character is unpopular. So why no hate for McCoy? If you don't like Pulaski, you shouldn't like McCoy.(I happen to like them both)

2 reasons, as I see it. First, as others have stated, it's a different character dynamic on TNG than on TOS, & even a different mood in how the episodes were presented. There was a certain casualness on TOS that allowed for Bones' cantankerousness to be rather affable, unlike TNG, where such an attitude seemed almost archaic or even conflictual

Second, it was somewhat of a knock-off of an earlier character, the cranky, uncompromising doctor, and though it was not the only close knock-off, it was the one that tended to stick out the most. At least the emotionless scientist of Data had some new angles to work that were disparate from Spock, & the hunky Riker Casanova was down played in comparison to how it got viewed in reference to Kirk. With Pulaski, it was just too overt, & most importantly, didn't jive with the other character flow going on

Besides, Worf was all the cranky guy comedy the show needed, in the end

I could see the first reason making sense if the criticism were more along the lines of "she just didn't work on TNG," rather than that the character was just unlikeable.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I don't get the Pulaski hate. We get a character modeled on Dr. McCoy almost exactly, and suddenly the character is unpopular. So why no hate for McCoy? If you don't like Pulaski, you shouldn't like McCoy.(I happen to like them both)

McCoy is actually much more abrasive in his Spock jibes than anything we see from Pulaski. I liked Pulaski, she had IMO more personality than Crusher. I felt like they never really gave Crusher much personality other than "nice".

 

[Trekker4747]

Problem with E,MDD is that if Data really couldn't solve "a real mystery" he'd have a hard time working in Starfleet since 90% solving mysteries.

Heh, good point. Although in the episode Pulaski doesn't actually question Data's deductive reasoning skills. Her point was just that he lacked the ability for true "original thought," and the ability to understand the "darker souls that drive us," as she puts it.

And indeed, I imagine Data probably would have trouble teasing the truth out of a suspect in the subtle way, say, Det. Goren did on Criminal Intent. Especially considering how bad he was at reading people.

Once Data ran out of actual clues to look at, he'd probably be stuck.

Did he?

In "Unification 2" Data's able to fake annoyance and authority (emotions he is incapable of) towards his slightly mutinous first officer. Suggesting Data may be capable of "teasing the truth" out of people. Look at how he behaves in front of Fajo's friend in "The Most Toys" -acting like anything but a sentient android. Data I would say is more than capable of eliciting truth and emotions out of people.

And there were lines in E,MDD where it's suggested that a key point on Pulaski's behalf was that Data couldn't solve an original mystery, saying that "our friend's circuits would simply short out if confronted with a truly original mystery" or words to that effect.

McCoy is actually much more abrasive in his Spock jibes than anything we see from Pulaski.

But, again, McCoy's jibes were towards a being that knew and understood the concept of them and was even able to dish punishment right back out at him. (And Spock did, and with much more sting since Spock did it with logic and truth.) Pulaski was doing it to Data who wasn't.... "smart enough" to know he was being made fun of.

And did McCoy ever once say in front of Spock while he's doing his job something like "It does know how to do these things, doesn't it?" That one jibe alone is far worse than anything McCoy dished out. In this one statement, Pulaski a)treats Data like a thing b)disrespects a superior officer and c)suggests Data is ignorant at doing his own damn job.

 

[Mojochi]

2 reasons, as I see it. First, as others have stated, it's a different character dynamic on TNG than on TOS, & even a different mood in how the episodes were presented. There was a certain casualness on TOS that allowed for Bones' cantankerousness to be rather affable, unlike TNG, where such an attitude seemed almost archaic or even conflictual

Second, it was somewhat of a knock-off of an earlier character, the cranky, uncompromising doctor, and though it was not the only close knock-off, it was the one that tended to stick out the most. At least the emotionless scientist of Data had some new angles to work that were disparate from Spock, & the hunky Riker Casanova was down played in comparison to how it got viewed in reference to Kirk. With Pulaski, it was just too overt, & most importantly, didn't jive with the other character flow going on

Besides, Worf was all the cranky guy comedy the show needed, in the end

I could see the first reason making sense if the criticism were more along the lines of "she just didn't work on TNG," rather than that the character was just unlikeable.

But the point is that she didn't work on TNG because she was unlikeable, mostly anyway. Bones was unlikeable as well, but it made for a balance that appealed to the audience. We liked him for his unlikeableness, unlike Pulaski where the relationship just seemed willfully antagonistic, & even cruel at times.

It was doubly damning because she grated socially with Picard, over what was seemingly a lack of command discipline, in his eyes, & she grated socially with Geordi as well as with the audience, because of her prejudice towards Data. The only guy she seemed to get along with was Worf, & because he was still in early development, it wasn't enough to save her

The biggest loss was that she seemed to be a more formidable medical presence than Beverly. Something about her just screamed "Starfleet's best" in the same way it did with Data, LaForge, Worf, Picard & even Riker to a degree. In that way she did belong amongst them, but socially & dramatically, it just didn't seem like a cohesive unit

 

[Mojochi]

And did McCoy ever once say in front of Spock while he's doing his job something like "It does know how to do these things, doesn't it?" That one jibe alone is far worse than anything McCoy dished out. In this one statement, Pulaski a)treats Data like a thing b)disrespects a superior officer and c)suggests Data is ignorant at doing his own damn job.

Another thing that bothered me was her rather obtuse reaction to Data losing to Kolrami in Strategema. Even after having spent almost an entire season around him, she still just doesn't manage to accept him as a person instead of just some piece of technology. She's completely flip flopped from thinking he might not be capable of his job, to expecting that he is infallible. Still slightly prejudiced

 

[Mr_Homn]

The notion that Gates Mcfadden could act better than Diana Muldaur is hilarious. TNG would have been a better show with Pulaski for all 7 seasons instead of the sleep inducing Beverly Crusher.

I also agree that she just seemed more credible as a doctor.

Beverly never seemed like a doctor to me. Without her stupid medical scanner she couldn't do a damn thing. At least Pulaski could fashion a splint for heavens sake. Her sharp tongue and ball busting nature brought a welcome change to the "kumbaya we all get along" enterprise D.

Data fangirls always cry because she was "mean" to him. But I think that's silly. She wasn't intentionally being mean to him, she was ignorant. And I find that very realistic. He's the only one of his kind in the entire galaxy (besides Lore who i think was presumed dead in season 2). Not everyone is going to automatically buy that he's more than just a smart toaster without getting to know him. He's an artificial machine and her response was natural for many. Just because we know data is a great guy doesn't mean shit. She didn't know him and she clearly warmed up to him by the end of the season.

It also bugged me how crusher was so disgustingly condescending towards Worf's culture and beliefs. She successfully denied and tried her best to deny him the right to choose what to do with his own body multiple times. Nobody ever really minds that though, because Worfs a dumb klingon, right? Not like the untouchable data, YOU BETTER NOT PRONOUNCE HIS NAME WRONG MOTHERFUCKER ARGHHHH!!!! In contrast Pulaski performed the LETHAL klingon tea ceremony out of respect for her klingon comrade. Much much cooler.

Oh yeah and Diana Muldaur was the fucking bomb in TOS. Those are two of my favorite episodes. And she was much hotter in TOS than Gates Mcfadden EVER was in TNG. MMMmmm that ass.........

 

[Mojochi]

I've actually never been one to suggest that McFadden was the better actress, just that Pulaski was less of a fitting character, & would have required much more development in order to mesh her better with the rest of the crew, time that would have stolen screen time away from the other characters. Personally, I just don't think she was worth the extra effort, & the actress's skills were not really the determining factor, poor writing choices were

 

[Mr_Homn]

And did McCoy ever once say in front of Spock while he's doing his job something like "It does know how to do these things, doesn't it?" That one jibe alone is far worse than anything McCoy dished out. In this one statement, Pulaski a)treats Data like a thing b)disrespects a superior officer and c)suggests Data is ignorant at doing his own damn job.

A. Data is a thing. he is made of artificial material. He is a sentient, and he has rights, but he can still reasonably be classified as a thing. Just because he is sentient, and has rights, doesn't mean we have to turn a blind eye to what he, in reality, is.

B. Not so fast. Data is a Lt. Commander and Pulaski is a Commander. She outranks him. Crusher outranks data too. The pips don't lie.

C. So? Data is a machine, and Pulaski outranks him. She hasn't gotten the chance to know at all, and he appeared to be unable to follow a very routine order at the time. Of course, that wasn't the case, but i don't think she was that out of line. and it's not like he took offense, since he can't even feel an emotion anyway.

 

[Trekker4747]

A. Data is a thing. he is made of artificial material. He is a sentient, and he has rights, but he can still reasonably be classified as a thing. Just because he is sentient, and has rights, doesn't mean we have to turn a blind eye to what he, in reality, is.

We are all things. It'd still be rude if I called another person an "it."

B. Data is a Lt. Commander and Pulaski is a Commander. She outranks him.

Pulaski may have had a higher rank but Data held a higher position on the ship (he was Second Officer, Pulaski was just the CMO and didn't even consider herself part of the bridge crew.)

C. So? Data is a machine, and Pulaski outranks him. She hasn't gotten the chance to know at all, and he appeared to be unable to follow a very routine order at the time. Of course, that wasn't the case, but i don't think she was that out of line. and it's not like he took offense, since he can't even feel an emotion anyway.

So.... It's okay to make fun of someone if they can't take offense to it? So you think it is okay to go up to people with mental handicaps and say things to them/about them that they wouldn't see as an offense even though that's your intent?

The way Pulaski treated Data in that scene was disrespectful to him. Yes, Pulaksi, Data doesn't know how to press the "zoom" button on his console. You got him.

 

[Mr_Homn]

I've actually never been one to suggest that McFadden was the better actress, just that Pulaski was less of a fitting character, & would have required much more development in order to mesh her better with the rest of the crew, time that would have stolen screen time away from the other characters. Personally, I just don't think she was worth the extra effort, & the actress's skills were not really the determining factor, poor writing choices were

That's cool. I wasn't directing the comment towards you. Others in the thread suggested as much. I just find it laughable since I always felt Gates Mcfadden gave a very wooden, boring performance, despite having 6 seasons to change my mind.

 

[Mr_Homn]

We are all things. It'd still be rude if I called another person an "it."

Human beings can not be classified as things according to any credible dictionary.

Data is a sentient being, but he's an android too. He's also a one of a kind, because while he is a thing, according to the law (and according to what we have seen first hand over and over again) he is a sentient being.

Pulaski may have had a higher rank but Data held a higher position on the ship (he was Second Officer, Pulaski was just the CMO and didn't even consider herself part of the bridge crew.)

She outranks him. So your initial point that "HOW DARE SHE DO THIS TO A SUPERIOR OFFICER" really doesn't hold water. Picard, Riker, Geordi, and Worf have all been rude to officers they outranked on multiple occasions. Moreso than Pulaski in that instance. Unlike pulaski, though, they didn't apologize and become friends afterward, either. You hate them too?

So.... It's okay to make fun of someone if they can't take offense to it? So you think it is okay to go up to people with mental handicaps and say things to them/about them that they wouldn't see as an offense even though that's your intent?

haha. good one. way to twist what I said. very poor analogy. I like how you add in "Even though that's your intent", too, as if it was pulaski's INTENT to offend, which it obviously wasn't.

And yeah, I don't think it's a damnable offense for someone to say something about a mentally handicapped person out of ignorance, because everyone makes mistakes. Especially if that person then grew more respect for the handicapped people of the world after learning more and even becoming friends with one. Because if actually try to follow your bad analogy through, that's basically what Pulaski did.

No, i'm saying it's not malicious to call a the ARTIFICIAL INVENTION OF A SCIENTIST a thing, especially when you know nothing about androids. it might be in poor taste with this specific android, but it's obviously out of ignorance, since she never refers to him in such a way again.

So why are you holding so much against her for doing something that a LOT of normal people would make? I mean, she apologized, get over it. She never hated data. She became intrigued by him and I'd say they became quite friendly. I don't get the hate for pulaski.

 

[Trekker4747]

No, i'm saying it's not malicious to call an android a thing, especially when you know nothing about androids. it might be in poor taste, but it's obviously out of ignorance, since she never refers to him in such a way again.

Ignorance of something isn't an excuse to do it.

As for the "it" thing, in human custom it's considered rude to call someone an "it" (as Riker himself says in "The Outcast") Data was considered an "alive" being with the physical presentation of a man. Calling him "it" was rude. And I didn't take Pulaski's apologies to him as genuine.

She treated him poorly and while her attitude towards him improved over the season it still never seemed "genuine" to me as someone posted above she criticized Data for showing that he is fallible.

She outranks him. So your initial point that "HOW DARE SHE DO THIS TO A SUPERIOR OFFICER" really doesn't hold water. Picard, Riker, Geordi, and Worf have all been rude to officers they outranked on multiple occasions.

Again, the rank they had isn't nearly as important as their actual position on the ship. Data was the second officer of the ship, third in the chain of command. Pulaski was the chief medical officer. Data's position on the ship was higher than Pulaski's and thus he was deserving of an ounce or two of respect.

 

[Mr_Homn]

Ignorance of something isn't an excuse to do it.

I disagree. Well of course it is an excuse. I guess you mean it's not an "Acceptable excuse"... I still disagree to an extent. Everyone makes mistakes. Maybe that's the fundamental reason we disagree. You seem to believe that temporary unwilling ignorance is unacceptable and rooted in malice. I think that's a pretty simpleminded and weird way of looking at things.

As for the "it" thing, in human custom it's considered rude to call someone an "it" (as Riker himself says in "The Outcast") Data was considered an "alive" being with the physical presentation of a man. Calling him "it" was rude. And I didn't take Pulaski's apologies to him as genuine.

Didn't you just say all people are things? Hypocrisy.

I forgive you though since it was out of ignorance.

She treated him poorly and while her attitude towards him improved over the season it still never seemed "genuine" to me as someone posted above she criticized Data for showing that he is fallible.

Seemed genuine to me, but I wasn't biased against pulaski from the get-go. You seem like you were. Understandable, same thing happened with Ezri Dax. When you replace a main character, there is always unfounded backlash.

Again, the rank they had isn't nearly as important as their actual position on the ship. Data was the second officer of the ship, third in the chain of command. Pulaski was the chief medical officer. Data's position on the ship was higher than Pulaski's and thus he was deserving of an ounce or two of respect.

Why do you put value on his position on the ship and disregard the fact that she outranks him? She could conceivably order him to go to his quarters and he could be sent to the brig for disobeying. The opposite isn't true (Unless he was acting captain perhaps). Though I hardly see why their ranks are even relevant to your argument in the first place.

And she does give him respect, people don't apologize to people they don't respect. Generally people don't become friends with people they don't respect.

 

[Tina Lawton]

To solve the problem, when Pulaski insulted him, Data should have gone all Terminator on her.

Yeah.....

 

[davejames]

I just find it laughable since I always felt Gates Mcfadden gave a very wooden, boring performance, despite having 6 seasons to change my mind.

She certainly wasn't the most exciting character on the show, but I wouldn't call Gates "wooden" by any means. She gave a very strong performance when she was required to (which unfortunately wasn't enough).

And I really dispute the idea that Beverly wasn't a capable Doctor. She not only solved tons of medical mysteries over the course of the show, but projected a real warmth and gentleness which you would want out of any Doctor. And she didn't have a problem standing up to Picard or Worf or anybody else when it was necessary either.

Not every Doctor in Trek has to be a grumpy Dr. McCoy type.

 

[Timo]

The unfortunate thing is that the writers felt obligated to "make" Pulaski better than the previous character when introducing her, not realizing they'd have to backpedal when McFadden unexpectedly returned. It's hard to ignore the fact that Pulaski knew how to restore LaForge's sight while Crusher quite clearly did not... Unless we speculate that Crusher had a different understanding of the psychology of the situation, and carefully hid this medical knowledge from LaForge (not realizing that he wasn't bothered by the existence of the cure, and would simply shun it).

Probably less intentional was the fact that Pulaski did a completely effective memory wipe once, yet Crusher was written several times as attempting to repeat the feat and always failing (for obvious drama-driving reasons that nevertheless made her look horribly bad).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS Excelsior]

She did at least seem to know her stuff. Although an interaction with her and Voyager's EMH would have been epic.

 

[Lt. LaForge]

Dr. Pulaski is underrated. Yes, she hurt Data's fangirls' feeling, so what?

 

[Visitor1982]

Pulaski was the only truly human character on that whole series.

She caused interesting conflict situations and was very dedicated to her work. Crusher seemed like a lost puppy on that ship.

So Pulaski treated Data as a machine. Guess what, he is a machine. Do you say please to your toaster every morning?
She warmed up to him in the end. Which was fine.

I loved her interactions with Picard in Unnatural Selection and Samaritan Snare.

Diana Muldaur is a top class actress, but was treated very badly on the show by the other actors. Probably caused due to the fact she earned more than some of the regulars. She did have fond memories of Michael Dorn though.

It was her decision alone to leave at the end of the second season. Pulaski was originally meant to be in season 3 and several episodes with her in it were already written when Muldaur informed the producers she wanted time off to film the TV movie The Return Of Sam McCloud. When the producers refused to give her that time, Muldaur said goodbye permanently.

I believe she would have been a good fit on DS9. Never liked Bashir anyway.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

So Pulaski treated Data as a machine. Guess what, he is a machine. Do you say please to your toaster every morning?

So basically Picard should have shut his mouth in measure of a Man and let Maddox take Data apart.