• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Prometheus - Poll


  • Total voters
    232
  • Poll closed .
And anyone who's read the shooting script for Alien knows how much changed from page to screen. That was all Ridley Scott. We have yet to see the shooting script for Prometheus, so we don't know how much Scott changed on the set or in ADR/editing (or left on the cutting room floor for the Blu-Ray). Clearly if Scott wasn't happy with Lindelof's script, he would have thrown it out and hired someone else.
 
Regarding Guy Pearce, I can't help but imagine that he was cast to play the elderly Weyland because in the sequel, he'll be back as an android (or we'll at least see his younger self).

From what I heard, he was going to play the younger Weyland in THIS movie (ala flashbacks or other things), but things changed and he was already signed, etc, etc.
 
^ Or perhaps he had so much fun doing the TED 2023 viral video that they figured why let his appearance go to waste?

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvx1xr88qfM[/yt]

I mean, why go to all the trouble of shooting that, if it (and him) wasn't intended to be used?
 
Regarding Guy Pearce, I can't help but imagine that he was cast to play the elderly Weyland because in the sequel, he'll be back as an android (or we'll at least see his younger self).
From what I heard, he was going to play the younger Weyland in THIS movie (ala flashbacks or other things), but things changed and he was already signed, etc, etc.
I mentioned an interview that contained that tidbit of information earlier in the thread, and I just took a few minutes to track it down.

[...] as for why Weyland is played by Guy Pearce in old-man makeup, Spaihts says Damon Lindelof's script showed the android David going inside Weyland's dreams while he was in hypersleep — and in his dreams, Weyland is a young man, on a yacht surrounded by beautiful women. These dream conversations got cut, but Pearce's casting was already locked in. Scott had originally wanted to cast Max von Sydow as Peter Weyland. (In Spaiht's script versions, Weyland isn't aboard the Prometheus at all — instead, there's a hidden squad of company soldiers.)
 
Maybe Ridley's going to go back and shoot those dream sequences (or already did and cut them) for the Director's Cut?


So far, I can only count four known sequences (and strongly suspect four more) deleted, and they don't add up to 20-30 minutes:

1: Extended Opening (more Engineers, religious/sacrificial ritual)
2: (suspected) Shaw and Holloway's Camp (more fully sets up the characters, esp. Holloway, leads up to Shaw breaking through to the cave)
3: (suspected) Janek/Vickers Sex scene (yeah, RIGHT)
4: (suspected) Aftermath (Shaw confronts/attacks Vickers in the wake of Holloway's death, then doubles over - first indication something's wrong with her)
5: (suspected) Maternity Ward (While Weyland/Vickers have their heart-to-heart, David looks in on Shaw's "baby")
6: Extended Fifield Attack (happens as Weyland's party leaves the ship, Shaw's the one who runs Fifield over)
7: Extended Shaw/Engineer Fight
8: Extended Ending (Proto-Alien gets up and leaves the lifeboat, walking out amid the wreckage of LV-223 - the first of the planet's new race...)

Ridley could also stick the "TED2023" and "Shaw's Audition Tape" viral videos (in that order) in between 1 and 2.
 
Maybe Ridley's going to go back and shoot those dream sequences (or already did and cut them) for the Director's Cut?


So far, I can only count four known sequences (and strongly suspect four more) deleted, and they don't add up to 20-30 minutes:

1: Extended Opening (more Engineers, religious/sacrificial ritual)
2: (suspected) Shaw and Holloway's Camp (more fully sets up the characters, esp. Holloway, leads up to Shaw breaking through to the cave)
3: (suspected) Janek/Vickers Sex scene (yeah, RIGHT)
4: (suspected) Aftermath (Shaw confronts/attacks Vickers in the wake of Holloway's death, then doubles over - first indication something's wrong with her)
5: (suspected) Maternity Ward (While Weyland/Vickers have their heart-to-heart, David looks in on Shaw's "baby")
6: Extended Fifield Attack (happens as Weyland's party leaves the ship, Shaw's the one who runs Fifield over)
7: Extended Shaw/Engineer Fight
8: Extended Ending (Proto-Alien gets up and leaves the lifeboat, walking out amid the wreckage of LV-223 - the first of the planet's new race...)

Ridley could also stick the "TED2023" and "Shaw's Audition Tape" viral videos (in that order) in between 1 and 2.

Meh. I can't say a director's cut is going to make a lick of difference for me.... Maybe if it's on TV some day, or streaming on Netflix... if I stumble across it, might watch it... but it won't fix the problems I had with it.
 
I'm surprised at how ignorant people are on SF boards about real technology...most likely that was some sort of advanced nanotechnology as well as biotech involved.


Nanotech. Goo, would've been nice if they'd let anyone have a hint of what it was or why it does what it does. But that required more pacing and exposition. But all the people in audience on the up and up of "real technology" could figure it out. (Not general audiences, in other words.)

Instead, it's LEVIATHAN (even put it a wine bottle). It mutates things because it does. That's what's in the script. Or was that soy sauce someone spilled on a napkin?


There was a lot more than just Earth on the 3D map.

The cave maps, not the holo-map. Why did ancient Earth cultures have a "chart" to the space jockey version of bio-weapons facility? The only explanation I've heard that make any sense is that it was a warning (a dumb one) or a trap if humans ever got to space.

I don't think sleeping with the captain had anything to do with her dad...

I forget how ignorant people on SF boards are about reading deliberately obnoxious statements (like anyone really posts anything in all caps that is meant to be serious?) :p

It seemed they almost wanted to make Charlize's character sympathetic at one point (sleeps with Idris, seemed some revulsion after burning Noomi's boyfriend), then NO, SHE HAS TO DIE, SHE'S A BITCH. Making previous scenes inconsistent. Or hell, she's just horny. Don't let the corporate ice princess fool you, fellers, they are ready to spread 'em. :techman:


But what was her purpose again? Corporate bitch...with daddy issues. Her role could've been reduced to a corporate stooge ala Burke in ALIENS.

There's the idea she may be some sort of synthetic. She recovers from cryosleep quickly. Later, everyone else seems sick as dogs after waking. Of course, we don't know how long she was awake before Davey sees her.

Why did Noomi's Dr. Shaw think the engineers changed their minds about doing Earth in? The bomber pilot forgot to wake up. That's it. Dumb luck.

I wonder if the engineers knew that Predators came along and taught humans civilization? (Ridley disliked AvP, they stole too many of his prequel ideas and used them 10 years before he did!)
 
There's the idea she may be some sort of synthetic. She recovers from cryosleep quickly. Later, everyone else seems sick as dogs after waking. Of course, we don't know how long she was awake before Davey sees her.
It almost looks like she was initially written as a robot (a-la Ash in the original), and then the writer or director changed his mind, but forgot to tell the actress.
 
Even Scott's out-of-movie attempts at making the film seem profound fail to be consistent with what was actually in the film. Take the Space Jesus idea, for example...

With that bit now nice and explained, let's get to the bigger question -- what did we do to make God/our creators angry? Well, if you theorized that it was because we crucified Jesus, you win! Confirming that at one point the script explicitly spelled this out, Scott says that was the direction they were taking with the story -- at least at first. "We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose," he admits. "But if you look at it as an 'our children are misbehaving down there' scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, 'Let’s send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it.' Guess what? They crucified him."

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...ust-ruin-the-mysteries-of-prometheus-20120614

Why would the Engineers be moved to destroy us because of our crucifixion of their emissary Jesus? Wasn't his sacrifice for the sins of man the whole point of Jesus' death? Isn't self-sacrifice to advance humanity's development the entire basis of the Engineer's philosophy as witnessed by the beginning of the film and their temple? So why be upset by the simple fulfillment of the most basic tenet of their belief system?
 
Meh. Even the much-vaunted visuals were so-so. The only thing I found mildly interesting was the David/Vickers/Weyland son/daughter/father stuff, and musings on soul, existence, dreams. Maybe should have waited for Blade Runner sequel.;)
 
In regards to the ending(s). It was luck the engineer pilot found Dr. Shaw in the escape ship, and luck her that the monster killed him. Because if the pilot had survived the tentacle beast, he'd have just hopped into another ship and attacked Earth.

Also, since when do aliens emerge from dead hosts? (The pilot Sure looked dead.) Sure, it not quite the xenomorph we are used, too, but it's also something else we can (have to) explain with the biotech goop.




 
In regards to the ending(s). It was luck the engineer pilot found Dr. Shaw in the escape ship, and luck her that the monster killed him. Because if the pilot had survived the tentacle beast, he'd have just hopped into another ship and attacked Earth.
Which begs the question why didn't he just take another ship and fly away. Are there no weapons of any kind on those ships, even something small that can blast the escape pod from the air?
 
Exactly. Also, it fails at portraying scientists. Those idiots are on the alien planet, have just made probably the greatest discovery in the human history, and then the biologist runs away at first sight of alien life and the geologist claims that he has nothing to do there? Where is their curiosity? For a real scientist, being in this situation should be like being a kid in a candy store.

And not to be out done, what about Hipster Archaeology guy.... during the autopsy, he could barely be bothered... the BIGGEST discovery of LIFETIMES... and he could barely sit there... maybe he wanted to go listen to some emo music and write poetry...

Yeah, Holloway was annoying too. Okay, so you didn't get to speak directly to the Gods, but it's still the most amazing discovery in history. But he just pouts around the ship like a kid who didn't get a toy for Christmas and starts acting like a dick to the android.
No, no - the "scientists" and their disdain for actual discovery are the result of the Conservatives winning the "war on science". This also explains the rise of an evil corporate entity like Weyland.


;)
 
Last edited:
"We joined this mission to disprove things, not discover them!"

"Look something alien. There's so much we can learn from it. Get rid of it."


"Why are you here, Charlize?"

"Because I want money! MONEY! MONEY! AND POWER! Also, my daddy don't wuv me."

"How is that motivation for travelling across vast distances to an uncharted world?"

"MONEY!"
 
Finally saw the movie last week.
Even Scott's out-of-movie attempts at making the film seem profound fail to be consistent with what was actually in the film. Take the Space Jesus idea, for example...

With that bit now nice and explained, let's get to the bigger question -- what did we do to make God/our creators angry? Well, if you theorized that it was because we crucified Jesus, you win! Confirming that at one point the script explicitly spelled this out, Scott says that was the direction they were taking with the story -- at least at first. "We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose," he admits. "But if you look at it as an 'our children are misbehaving down there' scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, 'Let’s send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it.' Guess what? They crucified him."

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...ust-ruin-the-mysteries-of-prometheus-20120614
Why would the Engineers be moved to destroy us because of our crucifixion of their emissary Jesus? Wasn't his sacrifice for the sins of man the whole point of Jesus' death? Isn't self-sacrifice to advance humanity's development the entire basis of the Engineer's philosophy as witnessed by the beginning of the film and their temple? So why be upset by the simple fulfillment of the most basic tenet of their belief system?
My take was that maybe the "mission" Jesus undertook was to teach the Romans the need for self-sacrifice, with the hopes that our species may have become an advanced-enough civilization to grasp the concept. To paraphrase one of the mantras in the movie - "Every king must die" - perhaps it was hoped that whoever was serving as Caesar during that time may have been compelled to die for the Greater Good of civilization. Methinks the Engineers heavily underestimated their creations' instinct for self-preservation - a potentially unique adaptation to our species during its development on a hostile Earth - an adaptation they didn't foresee.

My other thoughts:
I can't remember specifically if the team, towards, the end, made the specific assumption (in-dialog) that this was a bio-weapons facility or not. I have vague recollection of this, but can't be sure. A 14-year-old boy appeared to have either a seizure or go into diabetic coma next to me and my wife in the middle of the movie, so some details are a bit fuzzy. I have no idea if he pulled out of it, but he seemed to be somewhat lucid when the EMT's came to get him out. In any case, I think the assumption (and I'm going to focus on that word - assumption) on the part of the crew and some posters here is in error - although I'm sure we were meant to think it was this way, either deliberately or through sloppy dialog and editing - in so far as the black oil could be used as a weapon, depending on how it was wielded. Remember Genesis in ST2 & 3? It was a tool built by the Federation to create life. The Klingons saw it as a biogenic weapon, capable of destroying life on whole worlds. Both viewpoints, of course, were true. The oil was used to break down the molecules of an Engineer to create life on Earth. It was also going to be used en-mass to destroy it - not because it was designed that way and hidden away on some distant moon, but because the Engineers knew of our human nature. All they would have to do is drop all those canisters on Earth, they would crack open and the oil would be programmed to our nature to destroy us. The engineers weren't afraid of it, as for them it was a tool to create life in selfless sacrifice of their own. For them, it was a sacred substance that could be used to either build or destroy - morally neutral.

It is entirely possible that some Engineers set up this remote base so that others didn't find out about their plans. If Scott is taking from various aspects of Earth mythology, I think he's going for a mix of the Kabbalah and Indian mythology next - and starting to work with the nature of Seraphim and fallen angels. What if these Engineers who wanted to destroy us were misinterpreted in ancient times as the angels who were cast out of Paradise, jealous of our own creation as humans. The war between these angels could very well have been a civil war between the creator Engineers and the destroying Engineers, and we were just a pawn world in the greater war. The Indian Mahabharata spoke of a massive war with great weapons in ancient times. If Scott is going von Daniken on this, why not go all the way?

I, too, am starting to think that he should have left the xenomorph connection out of all this. Let it stand on its own as an Ancient Aliens/Ancient Mythology tale. But I think the temptation to pull it back into the Alien fold of his original film was too great. I'm giving it a B+. I was trying to look deeper beyond the surface meaning of the film and definitely saw something there. I don't feel that I was as distracted by the stupidity that always shows up in the form of modern horror movie tropes, knowing there was something else there - bigger and far more significant - to focus on.
 
So the nature of those worms in the cannister room was inherently hostile, too?

And goes back to what the holographic engineers were running from, what killed them? Something in their nature or another life form's nature was destructive.

:shrug:

Why where the cannisters in a sealed containment room that when opened made them leak, while the others were in a ship's cargo hold with no apparent signs of stasis needed?

Assuming they are the same thing, which may be a mistake.
 
So the nature of those worms in the cannister room was inherently hostile, too?
The worms and the oil were in the presence of humans. The worms were the fuel, but too morally ambiguous to cause problems. The humans present were the accelerant and dipshit biologist-boy who treated the snake like a pet was the match that lit the flame.
And goes back to what the holographic engineers were running from, what killed them? Something in their nature or another life form's nature was destructive.
If my supposition about the nature of these engineers is correct, and that they were the "Fallen Angels" and the "Destroyers" in Earth mythology, it is entirely possible that their creations lashed out at them. They probably thought that, since they were the creators of the oil, they could control their creation as well. A cardinal mistake, made many times by humans and their creations. If they are close to us genetically, it is entirely possible that they suffer from human error as well - and arrogance.
Why where the cannisters in a sealed containment room that when opened made them leak, while the others were in a ship's cargo hold with no apparent signs of stasis needed?

Assuming they are the same thing, which may be a mistake.
Not sure about that one yet, though I have an idea - and this is all supposition on my part. There seemed to be less of the leaking canisters present in the first room with the big head and many many more in the bomber cargo hold. I would surmise that, since there were less canisters in the first room, there was less oil to distribute and contain the "bad vibes" coming off the humans. The "evil nature" being programmed into them was too much for the canisters to contain and they boiled over, whereas there were enough canisters in the cargo hold to absorb the negative energy without breaking their seals. Just a guess.

Someone else on this thread coined the term "mood goo". A tongue-in-cheek description to be sure, but quite accurate nonetheless, IMO. I liken them more to a substance that absorbs and contains energy, much like battery acid (acid? hmmm...). In this case, positive and negative metaphysical energy. If a conventional battery is overcharged too much with a certain kind of battery, might it not explode?

Sadly, it's not unlike the Pink Mood Slime from Ghostbusters II, methinks. :(
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top