Problems with Nemesis

[Phoenix]

Having just watched Nemesis for the first time in a while, I'm not quite sure why it has the reputation it's got. Yes, there are some inconsistencies (Data's emotion chip, Worf's presence aboard the Enterprise, etc) and some definite similarities with TWOK, but in my mind, it's an decent movie. There are some stunning battle sequences and some character evolution (Riker getting promoted, Troi joining him aboard the Titan, Crusher going back to Starfleet Medical, etc).

What are your main problems with the movie?

 

[Charles Trip Tucker III]

I'm not bothered by similarities to The Wrath of Khan as I try to judge the movie on it's own merits. Most of my issues with the movie are in the continuity department, deleted scenes that should not have been cut from the movie, and bad writing.

Examples of Each
Continuity: Picard had hair as a young man, so why is Shinzon bald?
Deleted Scenes: Most of Worf, LaForge, and Crusher's scenes are on the deleted scenes section of the DVD.
Bad Writing: Why didn't Picard beam over to the Schimitar with a heavilly armed assault team? The climax should have featured Picard, Riker, Data, and Worf going to the Schimitar with Data opting to stay behind to finish the job.

 

[Flake]

Poor Dialogue, Bad Script, Bad Direction, Cheap sets, idiotic retarded android, a crew well past its prime, low budget, awful bad guy, poor musical score.

Feel free to add!

 

[Charles Trip Tucker III]

Actually, the movie had a very large budget with a lot of it put into the sets. The only sets I found to be cheap looking were crew quarters and sickbay. So what if the crew is well past their prime? Aging isn't a bad thing. As for Shinzon and B4... I thought Shinzon was a great villian played by a great actor. However, it should have been Picard's long-lost son. That would have been more realistic than Picard of all people happening to have an abandoned clone that rose to power. The musical score is one of the best parts of the movie!

 

[Csalem]

I think the Nemesis is fine, and that is the problem. I enjoy FC, but Nemesis comes across as a 15th anniversary reunion episode, where the actors are there having a good time and the plot comes second.

It doesn't help that Shinzon is nothing like Picard or Beverly remembers Picard in his Academy days before she was born, or that there is a big void at the bottom of the Enterprise for the Ron Pearlman's character to fall into.

 

[Phoenix]

Yeah, LOL! It would have made much more sense for that to have happened aboard the Scimitar. And as for the other inaccuracies (Beverly remembers Picard's Academy days, etc), that was just lousy research and effort on the part of the writers. And after watching the special features, it becomes clear that Stuart Baird is completely clueless about TNG.

 

[Computer]

Id say the Director knowing nothing about Trek history or TNG's legacy is a big problem.

I thought the plot itself was at best a 2 part TV episode.

The crew we see in Nemesis is not the same crew we saw in the final scene of AGT

 

[David cgc]

Of course, the crew we see in AGT is not the same crew we saw at the beginning of "Encounter At Farpoint."

 

[ancient]

The plot made no sense at all.

The UBER-weapon, and most of the other pseudo-science makes no sense at all.

The....pacing........is.......very.....................poor.

unfunny komedy. Patrick Stewart = not a comedian.

slow....slow....poorly choreographed "fight scenes".

Slow, lifeless space battles.

Hollow, uninteresting Data Death.

More ripped-off scenes than I am comfortable with.

That’s all I recall at the moment.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Csalem said:
...or that there is a big void at the bottom of the Enterprise for the Ron Pearlman's character to fall into.

The script says the encounter between the Remans and the security team takes place at "INT. ENTERPRISE. LOWER DECKS. NIGHT."

The thing is, that's just pure silliness. On the other hand, there's visual evidence from the movie to support the fight taking place higher up in the ship.

The first two digits of those door numbers refer to the deck, so the art department had the fight taking place on Deck 9. Whether that's accidental (forgot to switch a sign on a set that's meant to represent corridors on multiple decks of the ship) or on purpose (read the script and realized John Logan doesn't know his ass from a ditch in the ground) is between them and whatever deity they hold dear.

By moving the action to Deck 9, that puts Riker and the Viceroy in the vicinity of the upper end of a long vertical turboshaft -- one that runs from Deck 8 to Deck 20. There's your "bottomless void."

I pity the crewman who had to scrape the Viceroy's ass off the bottom of the turboshaft after the battle was over.



And while we're picking nits, notice that the slug line says it's "NIGHT." If the Remans are so sensitive to bright lights, why didn't Riker and Worf just crank up the ceiling lights to maximum intensity? Or bring their palm beacons and shine them in the Remans' faces? Could have made their job a lot easier.

 

[ancient]

And while we're picking nits, notice that the slug line says it's "NIGHT." If the Remans are so sensitive to bright lights, why didn't Riker and Worf just crank up the ceiling lights to maximum intensity? Or bring their palm beacons and shine them in the Remans' faces? Could have made their job a lot easier.

And we clearly see that corridor force fields do still exist when Data does his space flight so...er...quarantine shields up? Anybody? Hello? Echo...echo...echo...

 

[cardinal biggles]

Bueller? Bueller?

 

[Computer]

David cgc said:
Of course, the crew we see in AGT is not the same crew we saw at the beginning of "Encounter At Farpoint."

That was called progress.

 

[Csalem]

It could be the shaft, but then is the walkway a temporary structure or permanent. Also it seems to go longer than 15 or so decks.

I remember reading when they were making the film that Logan asked for deck plans when he was writing the script so he could show off new rooms. I couldn't help feeling he was given the Ent-D plans which is where the extra decks came from.

 

[SmoothieX]

And while we're picking nits, notice that the slug line says it's "NIGHT."

Shouldn't matter if it's day, night, or an eclipse, it's an indoor setting in deep space.

 

[Deckerd]

I saw it for the first time last night and rather enjoyed it. There was too much emotive speechifying which slowed the whole thing down but aside from that, it wasn't a bad film.

 

[David cgc]

ancient said:

And while we're picking nits, notice that the slug line says it's "NIGHT." If the Remans are so sensitive to bright lights, why didn't Riker and Worf just crank up the ceiling lights to maximum intensity? Or bring their palm beacons and shine them in the Remans' faces? Could have made their job a lot easier.

And we clearly see that corridor force fields do still exist when Data does his space flight so...er...quarantine shields up? Anybody? Hello? Echo...echo...echo...

Yes. I see your point. The Remans would clearly have been stopped by such measures. If only they had had some sort of... device... which could emit dangerous energy in a directed fashion for destructive purposes. A... directed energy weapon, if you will. If they had a "gun" of this type, they could've destroyed power and security systems that impeded their progress, reducing the lighting level on the decks and defeating any forcefields that were in their way.

However, since it's clearly impossible that a heavily armed boarding party might've shot some shit up while making their way through a ship that was in the process of having the crap kicked out of it, I suppose the only possibility is a gigantic plot hole. The idea that we may have been intended to understand that the Remans (or any other boarding party in the history of Star Trek that had a security team respond to it, rather than being penned in by forcefields) had the ability to defeat standard intruder control measures is too fantastic to contemplate.

Computer said:

David cgc said:
Of course, the crew we see in AGT is not the same crew we saw at the beginning of "Encounter At Farpoint."

That was called progress.

So the changes in the seven years TNG was on the air was "progress," but the changes in the eight years between the end of the show and Nemesis wasn't? Right.

You must've hated the TOS movies. "Why is captain Kirk all mopey and desk-bound in TWOK? A mere eleven years ago, he was a vital action hero, and since we haven't seen the intervening decade, clearly he should be exactly the same as we left him!"

 

[ancient]

David cgc said:

ancient said:

And while we're picking nits, notice that the slug line says it's "NIGHT." If the Remans are so sensitive to bright lights, why didn't Riker and Worf just crank up the ceiling lights to maximum intensity? Or bring their palm beacons and shine them in the Remans' faces? Could have made their job a lot easier.

And we clearly see that corridor force fields do still exist when Data does his space flight so...er...quarantine shields up? Anybody? Hello? Echo...echo...echo...

Yes. I see your point. The Remans would clearly have been stopped by such measures. If only they had had some sort of... device... which could emit dangerous energy in a directed fashion for destructive purposes. A... directed energy weapon, if you will. If they had a "gun" of this type, they could've destroyed power and security systems that impeded their progress, reducing the lighting level on the decks and defeating any forcefields that were in their way.

However, since it's clearly impossible that a heavily armed boarding party might've shot some shit up while making their way through a ship that was in the process of having the crap kicked out of it, I suppose the only possibility is a gigantic plot hole. The idea that we may have been intended to understand that the Remans (or any other boarding party in the history of Star Trek that had a security team respond to it, rather than being penned in by forcefields) had the ability to defeat standard intruder control measures is too fantastic to contemplate.

Wow, someone is in smartass mode today I see. We've seen forcefields used to restrict the movements of armed intruders many times. And the forcefields are clearly still working, even right next to the huge missing saucer nose.

Of course, if the self destruct can somehow fail I guess anything is possible.

Putting aside that a boarding party is totally unnessessary to begin with.

 

[David cgc]

ancient said:
Wow, someone is in smartass mode today I see. We've seen forcefields used to restrict the movements of armed intruders many times.

We've also seen them not used (or circumvented). Off-hand, there's Deadlock, The Way Of The Warrior, First Contact (the movie), Basics, and The Neutral Zone, notable for allowing just anyone to waltz onto the bridge during a red alert.

Putting aside that a boarding party is totally unnessessary to begin with.

This must be some new definition of the the word "totally" which doesn't include "last ditch effort to steal Picard's blood." Because, aside from that, there wasn't any reason to send the boarding party. I can understand how you might've overlooked that, considering it was only Shinzon's entire reason for ambushing the Enterprise rather than heading straight to Earth.

 

[T'Cal]

I was put off by dialog in which the characters didn't sound at all like themselves with Picard the worst of all. It started with the toast and went downhill from there. The lines Janeway spoke could've been spoken by any character, known or unknown; there was no Janeway in them at all. Worf, one of the richest characters in all of Trek, was again wasted as he has been in almost every scene in the four movies. Data's sacrificial death would've been stellar if B4 hadn't been in the movie at all. Without the chip, he became as human as Data could be by giving his 'life' to save the ship and crew. What about Geordi giving up when the transporter goes down? When was the last time Geordi gave up on anything? Deanna was pretty good but Will and Bev were bland. It pains me to watch this movie. This film was so bad that we may never see TNG again. That is unforgivable.