Problems/questions regarding the Khitomer peace conference

[Xerxes1979]

(1) Why were no other ships evident in the Khitomer system? Surely both Gorkon's daughter and the U.F.P. President would have arrived at the conference in suitably impressive ships accorded heads of state.

If Khitomer truly was a backwater in 2293 then the ships that transported the various delegations would had reason to remain in system/orbit to support such large diplomatic function.

(2)I don't see why Chang would insist on sneaking around in a BOP when he could legitamately command a squadron of larger warships in defense of this conference. The Enterprise warping into the Khitomer system unannounced and without permission would have faced a real life Kobyashi Maru. Chang would have emerged in great political shape after destroying Kirk and the pro-peace Klingon faction.

The Excelsior had no business being there either and would have fired on as well.

(3)Where were the planetary defenses? Khitomer did have planetary defenses fifty years later. Only Duras' treason enabled the Romulan massacre.

I find it unlikely that a Klingon outpost of any size would not be without some form of defense. Even the primitive planetary dispruptors in A Taste of Armagedon were successful in preventing the original Enterprise from beaming to and from Ameniar.

 

[MasuPu'a]

With number 2 I could see why the peace conference wouldn't want one delegation to bring in a large number of warships. That kind of undermines the whole idea of a peace conference. Khitomer is supposed to be a neutral place where both sides can discuss their issues peacefully. You don't bring a fleet of warships to that sort of thing, unless you're trying to intimidate the other side or make some sort of statement...which might end up becoming a point of contention between delegates at the very conference.

 

[Timo]

1) Why were no other ships evident in the Khitomer system? Surely both Gorkon's daughter and the U.F.P. President would have arrived at the conference in suitably impressive ships accorded heads of state.

Having warships from two or three bellicose negotiating parties in orbit would be a poor way to provide "security". Keeping the venue both secret and banned from armageddon-level military technology would be a better approach.

(2)I don't see why Chang would insist on sneaking around in a BOP when he could legitamately command a squadron of larger warships in defense of this conference.

If it were legitimate to have warships there, yes. But in that case, shooting down Kirk would look like the Klingons started the war, regardless of whatever propaganda they sprouted on the issue. If Kirk could be eliminated unofficially, much better for the Klingons.

(3)Where were the planetary defenses? Khitomer did have planetary defenses fifty years later. Only Duras' treason enabled the Romulan massacre.

The defenses probably were there. Why wouldn't they have been?

People responsible for the security of the site were clearly doing their best to undermine security. They would have insisted on weapons limitations, yet no alarm revealed the gun of the assassin. They would have insisted on keeping starships far away, so it would be equally understandable that no alarm would reveal the arrival of Chang or Kirk.

The one weird thing is that Kirk and pals are allowed to beam down, into the very conference hall no less! Why would free beaming have been in the interest of the conspirators? We might speculate that Valeris had the codes for her personal use, of course, as she appeared to be a relatively highly placed conspirator.

a Klingon outpost

The site was supposedly neutral, not Klingon. And the conference building had only two national banners on the outside: UFP, and Romulan. It was the Romulan one that decorated the entry used by the diplomatic procession...

Inside, most decorations were UFP, including the podium and the benches of the delegates.

Perhaps Khitomer was a Romulan world, which Nanclus' folks agreed to loan in hopes of precipitating a war there, and the UFP was asked to provide the public conference arrangements (they had been the designated hosts of the original, Earth-held conference after all) while the Klingons were asked to do little, and especially to stay out of the catering?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyke101]

I'd like to point out that a Starfleet admiral and colonel, a Klingon general, and a Romulan ambassador were involved in the conspiracy, on top of whoever else might have been involved, too. With that kind of coverage that high up the food chain, I imagine beefing up security would all be for naught, simply because they would be aware of all security measures in the first place. What good is a starship in stopping an assassination if an admiral -- whom no one suspects -- can order her away or some similar action? To the point, Cartwright tried to use his superior rank and authority to get our heroes arrested. (Luckily, Kirk and Co. found out about Cartwright)

In my opinion, the far more important question is, if the three main culprits hated each others' nations, wouldn't they see the irony of uniting for a common goal?

 

[Timo]

It's pretty easy to see that Cartwright and Chang might join forces in an endeavor that allowed them to go to war against each other - after all, there were mighty obstacles on the way to war, mightier than the influence of either soldier alone.Both would obviously be confident they would get the upper hand, probably through being the first to backstab.

However, Nanclus and Romulus would apparently want to stay out of the fight and wait to see two of their main enemies bludgeon each other to death. Neither Cartwright nor Chang would want that to happen. What did they stand to gain from Nanclus?

The obvious setup would be Nanclus promising his support to one faction against the other, and vice versa - but always in secret from the other faction. Support from Romulus would remove one of the major obstacles - the chance that one's side might lose.

Yet how could such a ploy work when at least Valeris knew that Nanclus was involved? Was she, like other Fed conspirators, deluded into thinkin that Nanclus was on the UFP side and against the Klingons - while Chang knew equally much but thought Nanclus was on his side against the Feds? That would be a dangerous game, Nanclus somehow justifying his presence to the side he pretended to be betraying.

Neither Chang nor Cartwright looked like an idiot. Perhaps they figured out what was going on, but decided that Nanclus didn't matter. Let him pave the way for the war with insincere promises. The Feds / the Klingons would triumph anyway, and would then give Romulus its due.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyke101]

Neither Chang nor Cartwright looked like an idiot. Perhaps they figured out what was going on, but decided that Nanclus didn't matter. Let him pave the way for the war with insincere promises. The Feds / the Klingons would triumph anyway, and would then give Romulus its due.

Timo Saloniemi

If anything, I don't think they looked like idiots simply because they got the job half done and were dangerously close to achieving their dastardly plans (Twice, even! If the President gave the go ahead with Operation: Retrieve, things probably would have gotten much bleaker much sooner). While true that we don't quite get Nanclus' motivations -- then again, maintaining the power dynamics is reason enough -- I'd like to think that Chang and Cartwright went a wee bit too far into trying to keep the status quo that they became victims of seeing the trees for the forest. That is, when extremists go extreme enough, they lose sight of their original goal to begin with.

 

[Timo]

...It seems their greatest mistake was performing both of their assassination attempts in "contained" situations. Had Kirk been implicated in the shooting of Gorkon while the Klingon leader waved from a balcony in Paris, or Chang in the shooting of Azetbuhr while she attended Gorkon's funeral in the Klingon capital, waves of jingoism would have spread much faster.

A pair of starships in the hind end of nowhere really didn't have the necessary "impact factor" - censorship was far too easy. And Khitomer provided a unique venue for defusing the situation once the assassin was caught; in a more public place with fewer security personnel and hardened diplomats around, the mere attempt could have triggered the desired war.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SeerSGB]

...It seems their greatest mistake was performing both of their assassination attempts in "contained" situations. Had Kirk been implicated in the shooting of Gorkon while the Klingon leader waved from a balcony in Paris, or Chang in the shooting of Azetbuhr while she attended Gorkon's funeral in the Klingon capital, waves of jingoism would have spread much faster.

A pair of starships in the hind end of nowhere really didn't have the necessary "impact factor" - censorship was far too easy. And Khitomer provided a unique venue for defusing the situation once the assassin was caught; in a more public place with fewer security personnel and hardened diplomats around, the mere attempt could have triggered the desired war.

Timo Saloniemi

Some reason I just had the thought of a balcony on Khitomer, Gorkon and the UFP Prez step out to a cheering crowd, then a photon-torpedo hits. Massive death toll, both sides blaming the other, Kirk and crew having to stop a war and find the real attackers.

(1) Why were no other ships evident in the Khitomer system? Surely both Gorkon's daughter and the U.F.P. President would have arrived at the conference in suitably impressive ships accorded heads of state.

If Khitomer truly was a backwater in 2293 then the ships that transported the various delegations would had reason to remain in system/orbit to support such large diplomatic function.

Whatever ship brought the delegates was probably ordered out of the system-- better to keep jumpy triggers figures out of phaser range of each other.

 

[Sandoval]

A pair of starships in the hind end of nowhere really didn't have the necessary "impact factor" - censorship was far too easy.

What's up with this retard just copying bits of people's posts all over the forum then? And with school tomorrow...

 

[Timo]

"He" is just a bit of annoying software, a type of bot. The frequency of these bot attacks on TrekBBS is about half a dozen per month in the groups I visit; I don't know if there's any purpose to it beyond random pestering.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EmperorTiberius]

It was supposed to be an assasination, not war. Cheng wanted to remain undetected until he's strong enought to attack Federation. Kirk wasn't supposed to know the location of the conference.

 

[Cyke101]

It was supposed to be an assasination, not war. Cheng wanted to remain undetected until he's strong enought to attack Federation. Kirk wasn't supposed to know the location of the conference.

It was supposed to eventually lead to war. The whole reason why the President shot down Operation: Retrieve was because sending in a Starfleet task force to rescue Kirk and McCoy would indeed be an act of war (and Colonel West anticipated that Starfleet could "clean their chronometers"). When the conspirators failed in that regard, they moved to Plan B, which was to assassinate the President to instigate war.

I love this quote as well:
"Those men have literally saved this planet."
"Yes, Bill, I know that. And now they're going to save it again. By standing trial."
- Commander-in-Chief and Federation President, on Kirk and McCoy

But such a quote strongly implies war if Gorkon was assassinated and Kirk and McCoy don't stand trial for it.

 

[Timo]

Also, Chang would have no motivation for waiting, stalling, biding his time... Time was the one thing he was lacking, because the loss of Praxis was weakening the Klingon Empire by the day. The sooner Chang got his war, the better his odds at winning.

Cartwright would have had every reason to stall, though, as the Klingons might crumble even without Starfleet doing anything much. But he was apparently thinking in terms of the Klingons attempting a last hurrah now that they were in such dire straits, and figuring out that a preemptive attack would protect the UFP better than a wait-and-see defense. And he was quite right about that - although the last hurrah might not have come in the first place if he didn't help Chang to power (and indeed failed to come when Chang was defeated)!

Really, the two conspirators were shooting themselves in the leg here, and while we may argue their logic was sound, this is only so if we assume they were being misinformed by a third party - presumably the Romulans.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[22 Stars]

Budget. It would have cost a lot more to show hundreds (ok maybe a dozen) ships parked in orbit.

 

[Timo]

Actually, a thousand ships in orbit would have looked more or less exactly like what we did see. Space is big, even when we're only talking low orbit... Things are rarely visible as anything else than moderately bright dots.

But the plot required a secluded spot, and supported the idea that no starships would be allowed there (not Kirk's, not Sulu's, and not Chang's), so I don't think we really missed the sight of vast battlefleets here.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[22 Stars]

I dunno, I agree Timo, but on the other hand artistic license has been used before, and it would have been a pretty cool shot, like the battles in DS9.