Priorities on a Starship- Re: the Episode Alliances

[Ro_Laren]

In the opening scene of the Second season episode Alliances we see Voyager badly damaged from a Kazon battle. It was their fourth confrontation in two days and the damage from the battle we see are as follows: no shields or weapons, the warp drive is offline and they also don't have impulse power. When Janeway contacts B'Elanna in Engineering, Torres responds by saying:

I think I can give you thrusters, but I have a lot of casualties I have to tend to first.

What the crap is that all about??? And then she brings an injured crewman to sickbay. The Chief Engineer abandons her post by doing something a medic or other crewman could be doing (by bring the hurt to sickbay).

Aren't her priorities a little off? She could either A) repair the ship so they don't all die- they are sitting ducks or B) play medic (something her future husband is fond of). Wouldn't you think that Starfleet would have some rule about this- if you are the Chief Engineer and the ship is vulnerable to enemy attack then you should repair the ship and let the medics do their job. Or at least let a junior Engineer take care of the sick, while you, the most experienced Engineer on the ship need to save everyone's life by fixing the ship.

Dumb rant, I know. But the scene really annoyed me!

 

[14thDoctor]

Well, she doesn't have a huge engineering team. If she's got several highly trained engineers dying on the floor, getting them to sickby should be the first priority, as otherwise she's going much harder time fixing the ship without them. Also, Belanna has some first aid training, which is more than most crewmen.

 

[Wil has a posse]

The minute Bendera made it to a biobed, Torres should've gotten her butt back to Engineering.

 

[Candlelight]

Engineers get confused during a crisis.

For example, in TWoK Scotty took his nephew to the bridge instead of sickbay.

 

[Akiraprise]

It's all that dilithium crystal dust from the warp core that gets into the air during a bad battle.

 

[Delta1]

14thDoctor said:
Also, Belanna has some first aid training, which is more than most crewmen.

Most Voyager crewmembers had absolutely no first aid training? That's surprising. How do you get a job on a military starship or with a guerilla fighter outfit without any first aid training?

 

[exodus]

Delta1 said:

14thDoctor said:
Also, Belanna has some first aid training, which is more than most crewmen.

Most Voyager crewmembers had absolutely no first aid training? That's surprising. How do you get a job on a military starship or with a guerilla fighter outfit without any first aid training?

First aid training isn't going to stop internal bleeding, major head trauma or severe burns.

How many guerilla fighters know CPR?

How many Starfleet officers can treat major plasma burns or a concussion?

14th Doctor , I think your answer is the more reasonable one so far.

 

[Ro_Laren]

14thDoctor said:
Well, she doesn't have a huge engineering team. If she's got several highly trained engineers dying on the floor, getting them to sickby should be the first priority, as otherwise she's going much harder time fixing the ship without them. Also, Belanna has some first aid training, which is more than most crewmen.

Of course a ship can't run without its Engineers. But my point is that there should be someone beside the Chief Engineer that should take care of the injured. What does it matter if the Engineers get better in sickbay just to be blown up when their ship explodes from an attack seconds later? The Chief Engineer should be concered first with keeping the ship in one piece.

 

[exodus]

Ro_Laren said:

14thDoctor said:
Well, she doesn't have a huge engineering team. If she's got several highly trained engineers dying on the floor, getting them to sickby should be the first priority, as otherwise she's going much harder time fixing the ship without them. Also, Belanna has some first aid training, which is more than most crewmen.

Of course a ship can't run without its Engineers. But my point is that there should be someone beside the Chief Engineer that should take care of the injured. What does it matter if the Engineers get better in sickbay just to be blown up when their ship explodes from an attack seconds later? The Chief Engineer should be concered first with keeping the ship in one piece.

The Chief Engineer is only as good as the team under them.(Go Team!) No Engineer can do the job all by themselves, Be'Lanna needs her team to do the repairs.

It's like the chain of command. The First Officer gives orders but because they deligate & need to supervise the entire staff they need a certain amount of freedom to make sure everybody is doing what they're assigned too as well as to double check the job is done right. Officers like Tal Celest(or Barclay on TNG) take more time away from the team because they have to be constantly supervised, which also takes time away from the Chief Engineer getting done what they need to do. Be'Lanna is Chief Engineer, much like the First Officer she needs a certain amount of freedom to supervise and oversee her staff. She can't maintain the ship without them because the task(s) is too big, she needs her entire team to deligate the tasks too.

 

[Smiley]

Yes, she needs her team, but there have to be a few people among the 140+ population of the ship that aren't doing time-critical work and can assist the injured engineers.

 

[Plecostomus]

One of the most unrealistic aspects of Star Trek is the role of the chief engineer. He or she is more of a team leader, organizing and assigning tasks to his or her teams. He or she would oversee a propulsion group (possible two on a starship), the structural group that repairs the frame and hull, and an internal systems group that repairs things like the toilets and replicators. Damage control would be EVERYONE's responsibility with the Engineer leading the damage control training and when things are wrecked in combat he or she would be in charge of assigning priorities for repair.

That said a good team leader would be VERY concerned about his or her crew members. In Voyager's case her concern is even MORE important because if she looses even ONE team member it could compromise her ability to restore the ship.

 

[Delta1]

exodus said:

Delta1 said:

14thDoctor said:
Also, Belanna has some first aid training, which is more than most crewmen.

Most Voyager crewmembers had absolutely no first aid training? That's surprising. How do you get a job on a military starship or with a guerilla fighter outfit without any first aid training?

First aid training isn't going to stop internal bleeding, major head trauma or severe burns.

No, but no one said Belana could "stop internal bleeding, major head trauma or severe burns." The assertion was that Belana had first aid training, while most of the crew did not. Let's stick to addressing what was said.

How many guerilla fighters know CPR?

Guerilla fighters recruited from Federation colonies, trained and commanded by former Starfleet officers and cadets? Probably all of them. And if they didn't know it when they were brought aboard, they would have learned it around the time of "Learning Curve."

How many Starfleet officers can treat major plasma burns or a concussion?

Remembering that we are discussing first aid, and not rear echelon medical treatment, all of them. First aid for burns is an elementary task for military officers, enlisted members, and Girl Scouts. There is no first aid treatment for concussions; the injured person is simply observed and, as soon as possible, removed from duty and sent to the doctor.

 

[Timo]

Of course, we have to remember that Torres isn't exactly a Starfleet officer. If she were, she might leave decision-making to the superior officer who calls for repairs to be completed. But since she's an independent-minded civilian, she takes it to herself to decide whether timely repairs are really necessary at that point.

And Torres might have a point. This is the umpteenth Kazon attack for the past few weeks, and it apparently follows a pattern. The enemy has just retreated, and if he didn't make an immediate surprise return all those previous times, he's not going to make one today, either.

Janeway and Starfleet regulations might beg to disagree with Torres' judgement, but in all probability she wouldn't care.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kegek]

I'm chalking it up to drama. Why do the bridge crew and senior officers all go on potentially hazardous away missions?

Because they're top-billed, that's why.

 

[exodus]

Delta1 said:

exodus said:

Delta1 said:

14thDoctor said:
Also, Belanna has some first aid training, which is more than most crewmen.

Most Voyager crewmembers had absolutely no first aid training? That's surprising. How do you get a job on a military starship or with a guerilla fighter outfit without any first aid training?

First aid training isn't going to stop internal bleeding, major head trauma or severe burns.

No, but no one said Belana could "stop internal bleeding, major head trauma or severe burns." The assertion was that Belana had first aid training, while most of the crew did not. Let's stick to addressing what was said.

How many guerilla fighters know CPR?

Guerilla fighters recruited from Federation colonies, trained and commanded by former Starfleet officers and cadets? Probably all of them. And if they didn't know it when they were brought aboard, they would have learned it around the time of "Learning Curve."

How many Starfleet officers can treat major plasma burns or a concussion?

Remembering that we are discussing first aid, and not rear echelon medical treatment, all of them. First aid for burns is an elementary task for military officers, enlisted members, and Girl Scouts. There is no first aid treatment for concussions; the injured person is simply observed and, as soon as possible, removed from duty and sent to the doctor.

The topic isn't First Aid, the topic is what are Be'Lanna's priorities when concerning injured crewmen. Is she responsable to the ship first or to her crew? You brought up First Aid training, to which I replied if the injury requires more than First Aid no standard training can help.

 

[Delta1]

I didn't bring up first aid training. Some chap/dame named 14thDoctor did. I even quoted him/her in my response. Then you continued talking about, and I quote, "first aid training." When three people are talking about something, it is a topic. Even if two of them are perhaps a little less educated about the topic than the third.

 

[exodus]

Delta1 said:
Even if two of them are perhaps a little less educated about the topic than the third.

I'll consider this a compliment.

Being well educated in appling first aid tactics to fiction will do me little good in life.

 

[Sito_Jaxa]

Her actions did seem unrealistic...

 

[Timo]

...But consistent. She has defied Janeway's command decisions before. She has shown a willingness to operate like a Maquis and unlike a Starfleet officer, especially in crisis situations and under pressure such as here. She seldom actually volunteers tactical suggestions, but she does act on her own tactical opinion without feeling the need to share her thoughts.

In this particular situation, getting back thrusters would seem like a super-low priority - those would be of zero help in combat, or in avoiding combat. So Torres would have every reason to be dismissive of Janeway's desire to get those systems back up.

OTOH, getting back impulse or warp drive, or weapons, or shields, would seem pretty important. But as said, the Kazon were showing a pattern there. Repairs probably weren't acute, while Bendera's wounds certainly were.

And Torres might have known that Bendera was not going to make it. To be at his side for the final moments would be something she valued higher than "duty", especially if "duty" didn't really amount to anything useful at the time.

Timo Saloniemi