Prime Directive? Yay-nay

[RobertScorpio]

The Prime Directive. Those three words can cause such interesting conversations, and have ever since Trek came around. It has such lofty notions, and yet our "Captains" find ways to go around it, or in Kirk's case, to just smash through it.

TOS is a product of its time, the 60s. The Prime Directive is very fitting for that time, but in the here and now does it resonate as loudly? Would you let an entire civilization be destroyed by volcanos simply to let 'nature' take its course?

If we had a PRIME DIRECTIVE here on Earth, and we started using it right now, just think what that would mean. If we found the lost tribe of the Myans in the deep forest, and only twenty of them were left, and they all had a treatable illness but would die unless treated? Would a Picard of this time just let them die because 'we can't interfere?'.

If the Romulans/Borg/Dominion/Cardassians seemingly don't have a Prime Directive, then why do the Feds? If the Romulans suddenly reformed, became peaceful, and were competing to get new member worlds, they would win. Just think of the selling points.

Picard: Join our Federation. We are peaceful.
Applicant: What if there is a world, non-member, pre-warp, that faces destruction from a comet and you could stop it; would you?
Picard: It is against our principles to interfere with the natural evolutoin of the universe. We hold this principle very dear to our hearts.

Romulan: Join our new peaceful Romulan Empire. We are now a peaceful force in the galaxy.
Applicant: What if there is a world, non-member, pre-warp, that faces destruction from a comet and you could stop it; would you?
Romulan: Yes we would. We value life above our principles.

I think, IMO, most applicants would join a peaceful Romulan Empire.

Oh well..here is the poll...

PRIME DIRECTIVE

Nay

Yay

 

[Kemaiku]

Just ask yourself one thing. What Would Kirk Do?

 

[RobertScorpio]

Just ask yourself one thing. What Would Kirk Do?

I agree. I was at a convention, years ago, where they had a 'round table' discussion and it turned into a "BASH KIRK" discusion. They took up most of his PD episodes and totally ripped him for doing what he did. When these so called Scifi 'experts', who I saw as nothing more than neo-communist, opened the floor for questions, I asked them this.

"If the US had had a Prime Directive, and also the ability to instantly rescue all the Jews from the internment camps, before the US was in the war, would they, if President, had done so?"

All but one, and there were six or seven of these bozos, said "no". That we can not violate the PD, even if it means saving innocents. I laughed and looked them and told them that they scared the hell out of me. And this was long before the BORG.

Rob

 

[JustKate]

Isn't the Prime Directive concerned with non-interference with the affairs of other planets? If so, there's nothing in the Prime Directive that would have prevented anybody on this planet from intervening and saving Jews from the concentration camps or the Mayans from their illness.

Also, even when it involves other planets, I'm pretty sure there are exceptions, including for humanitarian reasons. I don't think we've ever had all these explained to us, though - no doubt the writers wanted to give themselves some leeway. Well, actually, lots of leeway.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Isn't the Prime Directive concerned with non-interference with the affairs of other planets? If so, there's nothing in the Prime Directive that would have prevented anybody on this planet from intervening and saving Jews from the concentration camps or the Mayans from their illness.

Also, even when it involves other planets, I'm pretty sure there are exceptions, including for humanitarian reasons. I don't think we've ever had all these explained to us, though - no doubt the writers wanted to give themselves some leeway.

The AMERICAN/NAZI thing was to bring it down to a level that all could understand. Just pretend GERMANY and USA were different Worlds.

Picard seemed willing to let the people on that world die until Data made contact with the girl. And if Captains can cherry pick who to save and who not to save then why even have it?

Rob

 

[plynch]

Caveat: I love TOS and Kirk.

BUT - he often messes with societies just because he doesn't like them. It's not to save people's lives or cure some disease. "You're . . . stagnant. . . . You were meant to struggle . . . and CLAW yourwaythroughlife, not be . . . happy. You'll suffer . . . and . . . cry . . . but . . . we'll send a team of Federation advisors later. Bye."

Cue music and credits as off sails the Enterprise after totally changing a way of life.

The Prime Dir. was instituted on a show during the Cold War, since messing with smaller countries was thought of as uncool by the liberal producers, I'm guessing. And yet Kirk does go around imposing his values on cultures that aren't "developing." Weird.

 

[The Lensman]

Well the PD on ST was not really applied the same way as it was on TNG. Didn't Starfleet send the Enterprise to deflect an asteroid that was going to destroy a civilization in "Paradise Syndrome?"

BUT - he often messes with societies just because he doesn't like them. It's not to save people's lives or cure some disease.

I can't think of a time where he violated the PD where his ship wasn't in danger. At least not right off the top of my head. Lives were always at stake.

Contrast that with Picard being willing to let two different civilizations die because of the PD. The episode with Worf's brother just really damages the character of Picard for me and I totally was on the side of the brother. In Kirk's time, Starfleet would've ordered the evacuation.

 

[uniderth]

Well I think the Prime Directive is mainly concerned with bringing advanced technology to primative cultures. If aliens came to our planet right now and gave us all their advanced technology we would certainly destroy ourselves. I think that is the main focus of the PD. That and having a starship crew become the gods of some primative culture. That's why it's okay to visit primative planets as long as you disguise yourself as a native as seen in many episodes.

 

[Praetor]

I think the Prime Directive tends to fall silent when it comes to civilizations on a relatively equal development level - it's primarily meant to discourage interference in the internal affairs of other civilizations or the natural development of lesser civilizations, but clearly there are certain moral 'wrongs' that it allows the Federation to 'right' (especially if your name is James T. Kirk. )

So on that basis technically the U.S. could have intervened in Germany to stop the Holocaust.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I think the Prime Directive tends to fall silent when it comes to civilizations on a relatively equal development level - it's primarily meant to discourage interference in the internal affairs of other civilizations or the natural development of lesser civilizations, but clearly there are certain moral 'wrongs' that it allows the Federation to 'right' (especially if your name is James T. Kirk. )

So on that basis technically the U.S. could have intervened in Germany to stop the Holocaust.

But that is the problem I have with the Prime Directive. It can be easily slid to the side if one so deems it must be. Either these Starship Captains follow it, or you have to get rid of it. Or some kind of 'elite' application of the Directive seeps in; and I hate elitism!!

Rob

 

[Myasishchev]

The Prime Directive, as depicted in Modern Trek, is literally the worst thing the show has ever done. Borg Queen? Quark's sex change? Risa? No. Because other missteps are merely stupid, while the Prime Directive makes our Federation heroes appear monstrous. Too often, too, the Prime Directive exists as a writer's crutch, as well.

I strongly believe there must be tremendous debate on the Prime Directive in the Federation. If the humanity of the future is truly morally advanced, a large number are gonna be pissed when some bunch of pre-warp wieners die from a supernova. Personally, I suspect it's a Vulcan thing (Zefram Cochrane asks, "Where the hell were you during World War III?").

 

[Marie1]

I didn't vote cuz I'm in the middle.
The Feds and other more capable species shouldn't mess with the developpment of new cultures, at least not too much. Some trade etc... maybe. But cultures need to be part of the galactic neighbourhood by exploring it and learning. Maybe they can make friendships with planets others can't because of some specific cultural thing.

OTOH, I see no merit in allowing a meteor to crash into a planet and kill many millions of people when it could be prevented because of the "Prime Directive."

 

[The Lensman]

I see no merit in allowing a meteor to crash into a planet and kill many millions of people when it could be prevented because of the "Prime Directive."

Again, that is something native to the 24th century's interpretation of the Prime Directive, not the 23rd's. See Paradise Syndrome.

 

[Farquard]

The premise of the Prime Directive, is a great thing. Too bad it is left into the hands of writers to implement, "if" "when" etc...
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[Jonas Grumby]

Well, the Prime Directive as depicted in TOS was certainly easier to stomach than the vomit-inducing perversity it became during TNG. But I'm still amazed that the normally brilliant Gene Coon - faced with the need for a plot device to essentially tie our overly-powerful heroes' hands and prevent them from solving an episode's dilemma in the first ten-minutes - couldn't come up with something better.

 

[BillJ]

Great idea with poor execution, at least when talking Modern Trek.

 

[Anwar]

I actually agreed with Picard's position in "Homeward". It would've taken hundreds of Starships working around the clock to evacuate that planet, and then they'd have to find another world and resettle them while leaving a sizable team of experts to help the people adjust to their new world and deal with the amount of extreme damage this would've all done to them in the first place.

And after they did this, it would set a precedent. The pro-interventionalists on Earth would keep using it as an example of what they should be doing ALL the time.

Where are the ships, personnel and resources for this kind of Galactic Babying supposed to come from? Starfleet would have to pull assigned personell from other duties to do so, like defense.

You just have to look at the bigger picture and most of these "monstrous" actions actually make sense, even if you don't like them.

As for Kirk, he was probably working his butt off between episodes to keep from being court-martialed.

 

[BillJ]

As for Kirk, he was probably working his butt off between episodes to keep from being court-martialed.

Were people even watching the same Star Trek as I was?

I count ten episodes that seemed to be Prime Directive tales (in The Original Series).

Miri
Return of the Archons
Errand of Mercy
The Apple
Friday's Child
A Piece of the Action
A Private Little War
Patterns of Force
The Omega Glory
Bread and Circuses

Of the ten I see one where Captain Kirk out and out violated the Prime Directive, The Apple. Even then a case could be made that the society in question wasn't technologically inferior.

In the rest he was either cleaning up someone else's mess or dealing directly with the Klingons. With the exception of Miri, which had a planet full of children dying when they hit puberty.

 

[Myasishchev]

I actually agreed with Picard's position in "Homeward". It would've taken hundreds of Starships working around the clock to evacuate that planet, and then they'd have to find another world and resettle them while leaving a sizable team of experts to help the people adjust to their new world and deal with the amount of extreme damage this would've all done to them in the first place.

And after they did this, it would set a precedent. The pro-interventionalists on Earth would keep using it as an example of what they should be doing ALL the time.

Where are the ships, personnel and resources for this kind of Galactic Babying supposed to come from? Starfleet would have to pull assigned personell from other duties to do so, like defense.

You just have to look at the bigger picture and most of these "monstrous" actions actually make sense, even if you don't like them.

I think you vastly overestimate how often extinction events occur, even distributed amongst, say, ten thousand worlds with intelligent life, on the timescale of humanoid existence. Even then, many of the ones that do occur involve object collision, which are really easy to deal with when you have a tractor beam and are able to catch the offending objects hundreds of years before they strike.

On the other hand, an economic argument is far more palatable than a moral one in this case.

 

[greenmystik]

I never liked the PD. Whats wrong with helping races? It's all the Vulcans fault.

Sorry, bit o rambling goin on in my brain.