startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
What do you think of this episode and why I thought it was an ok episode
Prey
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I watched it today, and thought the Hirogen vs. 8472 idea was a pretty cool concept. But the really interesting conflict in that episode is Janeway vs. Seven of Nine. Seven is obviously correct in saying that Janeway's compassion and idealism are risking the crew unnecessarily (as always), but she is obviously wrong to disobey the Captain's orders. It's an interesting and ongoing character conflict (which, by the way, you would never have seen in TOS or TNG, because Gene Roddenberry didn't allow that sort of thing while he was alive).
I think it was a well-executed episode and agree with BashirGarak that the interesting conflict was Seven's confusion and disagreement over Janeway's orders. I also liked how tough and menacing it made both the 8472 and the Hirogen seem, like when the 8472 tears the forcefield down and when the Hirogen tackles the 8472. Great episode overall.
Prey was a cool episode. The Hirogen and Species 8472 were some of Voyager's toughest bad guys. Seeing them go head to head was awesome.
Lie exodus said, it was VOY's AvP. Except better than the actual AvP. Although AvP was still pretty cool.
Lie exodus said, it was VOY's AvP. Except better than the actual AvP. Although AvP was still pretty cool.
I liked it. You got Hirogen (Trek's Predators) going up against 8472 (Trek's answer to Aliens) And the conflict between Janeway and Seven was good. Season 4 might well have been the best Voyager season.
didn't like prey too much, but the episode in which the hirogen were introduced (well, actually in message in a bottle, but in person), in hunters, where tuvok was hurled accross the room by a hirogen. would have liked to see them hunting klingons or jem hadar. what a shame they were reduced like many other star trek villains, in the end, they were a match for naomi wildman.
I really enjoyed it...
Except there was one key flaw. Voyager had already encountered the Hirogen. Phasers were ineffective. At a pivotal moment near the end, Voyager is engaging 3 ships, plus there are 3 more on the way. There is NO WAY Voyager would have survived. Janeway refusing to hand over species 8472 was reckless. 7of9 saved the day by beaming the Hirogen and species 8472 onto a Hirogen ship. And yes, she disobeyed orders... but Janeway should have realized the folly of her ways. Yes, I can appreciate her tenacious need to stick to the prime directive. But at the cost of everyone aboard? Over one creature? I found this to be an unpalatable decision. This episode would have definitely been in my top 10, were it not for this... disappointing behavior on Janeway's part. In the past, Chakotay disobeyed orders because Janeway was wrong. It took a long while for her to come around and admit it. Of course, later on 7of9's detention is revoked and she's back as a valued member of the crew. But I really think Janeway owed her a big apology.
Except there was one key flaw. Voyager had already encountered the Hirogen. Phasers were ineffective. At a pivotal moment near the end, Voyager is engaging 3 ships, plus there are 3 more on the way. There is NO WAY Voyager would have survived. Janeway refusing to hand over species 8472 was reckless. 7of9 saved the day by beaming the Hirogen and species 8472 onto a Hirogen ship. And yes, she disobeyed orders... but Janeway should have realized the folly of her ways. Yes, I can appreciate her tenacious need to stick to the prime directive. But at the cost of everyone aboard? Over one creature? I found this to be an unpalatable decision. This episode would have definitely been in my top 10, were it not for this... disappointing behavior on Janeway's part. In the past, Chakotay disobeyed orders because Janeway was wrong. It took a long while for her to come around and admit it. Of course, later on 7of9's detention is revoked and she's back as a valued member of the crew. But I really think Janeway owed her a big apology.
Overall, I think Prey was a good episode of Voyager, though I have to agree that Janeway's "Starfleet ideas above all else, including the crew's safety" refrain was getting a little tiresome by this point in the series. 
I also agree that though the Hirogen/8472 plot thread was central to the episode, Seven's going against the Captain and handing the 8472 over to the Hirogen was not only necessary to save the ship, but was also a definite step in her characterization of her humanity.
I also agree that though the Hirogen/8472 plot thread was central to the episode, Seven's going against the Captain and handing the 8472 over to the Hirogen was not only necessary to save the ship, but was also a definite step in her characterization of her humanity.
You have a point, that is the Starfleet ideal.
One of the things that irked me throughout much of early Voyager - and Chakotay brought this up several times, especially in "Alliances" - is that Janeway seems to forget that she does not have the luxury of waltzing through the Delta Quadrant, pushing her ideals onto everyone else. She is in their backyard, for lack of a better phrase, and may have to play by their rules whether she likes it or not.
I acknowledge that Janeway's ideal is within character and is definitely the optimistic way to deal with the situation, but in the Delta Quadrant, it seems that optimism isn't going to win the day like it does in the Alpha Quadrant.
If Janeway had had thousands of starships and millions of Starfleet officers at her back, all pledging their lives and morals to the protection of the 8472, then her course of action is absolutely reasonable.
Janeway's determination here is definitely applaudable, but if I put myself in her shoes, with six Hirogen vessels at my back, a crew and ship to protect, and the choice between being outnumbered and outgunned in order to save a creature whose cousins I helped exterminate just a few months back, I'm not sure I'd come to the same conclusion.
The Delta Quadrant doesn't seem to like morality, does it?
One of the things that irked me throughout much of early Voyager - and Chakotay brought this up several times, especially in "Alliances" - is that Janeway seems to forget that she does not have the luxury of waltzing through the Delta Quadrant, pushing her ideals onto everyone else. She is in their backyard, for lack of a better phrase, and may have to play by their rules whether she likes it or not.
I acknowledge that Janeway's ideal is within character and is definitely the optimistic way to deal with the situation, but in the Delta Quadrant, it seems that optimism isn't going to win the day like it does in the Alpha Quadrant.
If Janeway had had thousands of starships and millions of Starfleet officers at her back, all pledging their lives and morals to the protection of the 8472, then her course of action is absolutely reasonable.
Janeway's determination here is definitely applaudable, but if I put myself in her shoes, with six Hirogen vessels at my back, a crew and ship to protect, and the choice between being outnumbered and outgunned in order to save a creature whose cousins I helped exterminate just a few months back, I'm not sure I'd come to the same conclusion.
The Delta Quadrant doesn't seem to like morality, does it?
^^I think my conscience would bother me knowing that I allowed a mob to bully me into letting someone be beaten to death just because they were different.
That's the black & white of it. The Hirogen had no interest in the Borg/8472 war or our side in it. They have no interest or understanding of politics or a moral compass. They just wanted to kill it because it was different to them and killing it for that reason & that reason alone was justified to their people.
Who's knows, maybe Voyager dying at to save an 8472 might mean as much to their species as the death of the ENT-C crew meant to the Klingons.
That's the black & white of it. The Hirogen had no interest in the Borg/8472 war or our side in it. They have no interest or understanding of politics or a moral compass. They just wanted to kill it because it was different to them and killing it for that reason & that reason alone was justified to their people.
Who's knows, maybe Voyager dying at to save an 8472 might mean as much to their species as the death of the ENT-C crew meant to the Klingons.
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Good point. The Hirogen, though a little more widespread and certainly with a few different traditions, strike me as being very Klingon-esque in their warrior attitude.
It's entirely possible that Voyager's sacrifice would bestow great honor upon the ship and crew by the Hirogen. Unfortunately, being 60,000 light years from Starfleet makes it difficult for that sacrifice to mean anything to anyone but the Hirogen.
Also, I would contend that there is a difference between letting a mob bully me into letting someone be beaten to death just because they were different, and letting a mob bully me into letting someone be beaten to death because its the alien or me. It might go against everything my morals stand for, which it does, btw, but sometimes Janeway and crew don't have the luxury of upholding their morals in the Delta Quadrant.
It's entirely possible that Voyager's sacrifice would bestow great honor upon the ship and crew by the Hirogen. Unfortunately, being 60,000 light years from Starfleet makes it difficult for that sacrifice to mean anything to anyone but the Hirogen.
Also, I would contend that there is a difference between letting a mob bully me into letting someone be beaten to death just because they were different, and letting a mob bully me into letting someone be beaten to death because its the alien or me. It might go against everything my morals stand for, which it does, btw, but sometimes Janeway and crew don't have the luxury of upholding their morals in the Delta Quadrant.
If I thought Voyager as a series were more continuity-oriented I might think it would have been interesting to see Janeway make the call to give up the 8472, and then see her dealing with the emotional consequences of having compromised her morals to the point of allowing an "innocent" being to be killed for sport.
Yeah but you also have to factor in their military oath to Starfleet to protect the defenceless even at the cost of their own lives. Remember Sisko's point of Worf in "Rules of Engagement"?
These folks are still soldiers swore to protect & uphold the peace. The issue goes beyond ones own personal morals.I WISH Voyager had been more continuity oriented. So much potential and so little follow through in the later seasons... though that's a different complaint altogether.
@Exodus - The problem, at least in my mind, arises with trying to bring the sensibilities of the Federation to the relatively lawless Delta Quadrant. It's an honor to be able to uphold your beliefs in a region that lacks them, and I'm all for the saving of the 8472 in this episode. Sometimes, though, Janeway has to weigh the upholding of Starfleet regulations against keeping Voyager safe and back to the Alpha Quadrant.
To paraphrase Janeway's own words, I respect the decision she made, even though I disagree with it.
@Exodus - The problem, at least in my mind, arises with trying to bring the sensibilities of the Federation to the relatively lawless Delta Quadrant. It's an honor to be able to uphold your beliefs in a region that lacks them, and I'm all for the saving of the 8472 in this episode. Sometimes, though, Janeway has to weigh the upholding of Starfleet regulations against keeping Voyager safe and back to the Alpha Quadrant.
To paraphrase Janeway's own words, I respect the decision she made, even though I disagree with it.
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