Pretty simple ways to identify changelings

[somebuddyX]

Just rebuild that thing from "The Die is Cast" that turned Odo into dirt. Get the boffins at Starfleet to knock one out. Either the Cardassians and Romulans had been working on for a long while, perhaps scared of a bunch of Odos coming for them, or they did it after the Dominion became known as a threat at the start of Season 3. Whatever the case, get cracking.

 

[dupersuper]

That’s because it doesn’t scan: it converts into energy and back. This has been addressed multiple times by tptb and even on enterprise and tng, yet someone still insists with that nonsense from the 70s.

^I'm not necessarily talking about transporters. I'm also thinking of scanning equipment, which does scan matter. Even tricorders are usually capable of fairly advanced analyses (though not perhaps down to the quantum level), so a higher powered version probably could do still more.

Though surely to turn some one or thing into energy and back while moving them/it from one location to another...you have to scan them/it.

 

[jackoverfull]

Though surely to turn some one or thing into energy and back while moving them/it from one location to another...you have to scan them/it.

just like you have to scan something to move it from a room to the other? I wouldn’t presume to understand technology that doesn’t actually exist.

 

[Kor]

They should come up with some kind of energy field that disrupts Changelings' ability to hold any form besides their natural state. But of course not lethal like the thing the Klingons came up with.

Kor

 

[dupersuper]

They should come up with some kind of energy field that disrupts Changelings' ability to hold any form besides their natural state. But of course not lethal like the thing the Klingons came up with.

Kor

The Federation and the Cardassians already had by the 2370s. The only energy I remember the Klingons using on a Changeling was disrupter fire: of course that was lethal.

 

[at Quark's]

^even so, killing that one changeling seemed to require a lot of those blasts. Didn't that changeling die only after an entire room of Klingons had been firing their disruptors at it for 10-15 seconds or so?

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

^even so, killing that one changeling seemed to require a lot of those blasts. Didn't that changeling die only after an entire room of Klingons had been firing their disruptors at it for 10-15 seconds or so?

Yep. The writers also retconned the durability of changelings. Mirror Odo was killed instantly with one phaser blast. The Martok changeling required dozens of hits to still die a slow death. Also, Odo was knocked out by 1 punch from O'Brien, again knocked out by 1 rock in "Vortex," but perfectly able to withstand a barrage of boulders in "Heart of Stone." But people will still say, "It's...it's because Odo was inexperienced!"

When Odo was stating facts about his senses, he was making statements about his biology, not his experience. In later episodes, he was floating above Kira like the Northern Lights, but that didn't mean he suddenly had a sense of taste because he was more "experienced." If anyone can come up with an example of an experienced changeling having those senses, please share. Otherwise it's an unfounded assumption. [Btw, this is in response to other posts, not yours!]

 

[Kor]

The Federation and the Cardassians already had by the 2370s. The only energy I remember the Klingons using on a Changeling was disrupter fire: of course that was lethal.

I think I was mixing up the details on Sisko and co's undercover mission into Klingon space.

Kor

 

[kkt]

Yep. The writers also retconned the durability of changelings. Mirror Odo was killed instantly with one phaser blast. The Martok changeling required dozens of hits to still die a slow death. Also, Odo was knocked out by 1 punch from O'Brien, again knocked out by 1 rock in "Vortex," but perfectly able to withstand a barrage of boulders in "Heart of Stone." But people will still say, "It's...it's because Odo was inexperienced!"

When Odo was stating facts about his senses, he was making statements about his biology, not his experience. In later episodes, he was floating above Kira like the Northern Lights, but that didn't mean he suddenly had a sense of taste because he was more "experienced." If anyone can come up with an example of an experienced changeling having those senses, please share. Otherwise it's an unfounded assumption. [Btw, this is in response to other posts, not yours!]

We can explain this... Odo was a very young changeling, very vulnerable to phasers etc. For the Martok changeling, the Dominion naturally chose one of their toughest older changelings who was able to deflect some of the disruptor fire into something less harmful to him.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

We can explain this... Odo was a very young changeling, very vulnerable to phasers etc. For the Martok changeling, the Dominion naturally chose one of their toughest older changelings who was able to deflect some of the disruptor fire into something less harmful to him.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuure. Almost makes sense.

This came about after binging season 7 again. After the finale, of course Netflx gave the option "PLAY FROM BEGINNING." And I was like, "Ok yeah, why not?!" Immediately - going from finale to premiere - stuff like this stood out like a sore thumb, along with Sisko's whole character arc being retconned, since in the premiere the clueless Prophets are debating whether to destroy him, when supposedly he was created by their own grand designs and active participation.

Obviously every Trek has examples of retcons of one kind of another, but just thought this particular one was an interesting look-back at how the Founders' own arc developed into the nearly invincible foe from more humble beginnings earlier on.

 

[at Quark's]

along with Sisko's whole character arc being retconned, since in the premiere the clueless Prophets are debating whether to destroy him, when supposedly he was created by their own grand designs and active participation.

Well, given that the prophets exist outside of linear time they could retcon that in almost any way they'd like. And even if you'd argue that the explanation still doesn't make sense (with cause and effect and these things), the answer still could be: 'that's only because it doesn't make sense to your mind which is constrained by linear time'.

Anyway, 7 years is a long time and writer's ideas are going to change over that period, making it up as they go. You'd probably be able to keep it consistent only if you wrote out (and thoroughly checked) the entire arc in advance.

 

[Kor]

This stuff is "early installment weirdness" as TVTropes describes it. Most shows have some of that. With DS9, the influence of powerful non-linear wormhole aliens can explain away a lot. Except the change in Rom's characterization, and his voice. Maybe he was replaced by a changeling early on!

Kor

 

[Crewman6]

Mimic is one thing. Actual sweating and peeing is another!

Obviously if they wanted to replace one of the countless humans that dominate Starfleet, that would be a pooping species. Or are you referring to the glaring lack of bathrooms in general in Trekverse? (Such a fun topic here...)

Odo once said, "if you scan me while I'm a rock, you detect a rock." Changelings don't just mimic the appearance of people (or objects), they become them literally down to a subatomic level.

Additionally, while not established on-screen, the writers said that only Odo needs to regenerate, the other changelings do not.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Odo said pretty early "If you scan me when I'm in the form of a rock, you'll scan a rock".

 

[Trekker09]

Additionally, while not established on-screen, the writers said that only Odo needs to regenerate, the other changelings do not.

Wonder why the writers would make that distinction...I guess we never find out whether Laas in "Chimera" has to regenerate. He was supposedly at least a hundred years older than Odo.

 

[kkt]

Odo once said, "if you scan me while I'm a rock, you detect a rock." Changelings don't just mimic the appearance of people (or objects), they become them literally down to a subatomic level.

Additionally, while not established on-screen, the writers said that only Odo needs to regenerate, the other changelings do not.

When the Female Changling had the Changling Plague, didn't she say that she was unable to regenerate and that was why she was falling apart?

 

[jackoverfull]

When the Female Changling had the Changling Plague, didn't she say that she was unable to regenerate and that was why she was falling apart?

correct. My interpretation is that more advanced changeling can hold off regenerating for much longer, but sooner or later they’ll have to.

 

[Kor]

I'm trying to find where the Female Changeling/Founder talked about needing to regenerate. But the closest thing I'm coming up with is this exchange from WYLB:

WEYOUN: Perhaps you should rest for a while. Revert to your natural state.
FOUNDER: I haven't been able to change form in weeks. It's ironic, isn't it, that I should die as a Solid.

Actually, since most changelings seem to prefer spending the majority of their time in their natural state and only appear in solid form to deal with solids, that probably negates any need to stick to a clockwork regeneration schedule like Odo, since they are basically regenerating all the time. If you are spending a couple hours a day as a solid to order your minions around, and you are liquid for the other 20-something hours, the issue probably never comes up.

Odo spends most of his waking time in solid form, so that's probably more physically taxing on him.

Kor

 

[Crewman6]

When the Female Changling had the Changling Plague, didn't she say that she was unable to regenerate and that was why she was falling apart?

No, she never said that. The writers proceeded from the assumption that other changelings didn't need to regenerate.

Wonder why the writers would make that distinction...I guess we never find out whether Laas in "Chimera" has to regenerate. He was supposedly at least a hundred years older than Odo.

Probably out of laziness. They didn't want to have to deal with the implications. Far easier to say, "Eh, changelings can be anywhere, impersonate people, etc. without having to bother regenerating."

I

Odo spends most of his waking time in solid form, so that's probably more physically taxing on him.

Kor

Yes, but changelings often need to spend extended periods of time in solid form if they're going undercover, so it's not like they can just slip away for a regeneration bath.

It's in one of the Ron Moore Q&As, he said the writers didn't consider other changelings as needing to do it (even though it's never said onscreen.)

 

[jackoverfull]

Yes, but changelings often need to spend extended periods of time in solid form if they're going undercover, so it's not like they can just slip away for a regeneration bath.

if the more expert changelings don’t need to adhere to a strict schedule and can limite regenerating to say 8 hours or so I don’t see the issue: human people sleep and the kind of person an infiltrator is going to impersonate will have their own room with privacy.